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Member
Posts: 28
| Hello everyone. I’m at a lost at what to do and need some more opinions that aren’t going to break my bank. I started legging my gelding in the middle of January preparing for this season. Nice and easy, following my usual. I noticed he was off in the back it felt like, choppy up front. Thought maybe it’s because of the coldness, working on not the softness ground, and him not having shoes. Gave him a week off, went back at it and he was the same. Took him to the vet, he was about 1/5 lame on each of the front feet and and 3/5 lame on the back right. Nerve blocked the right foot and was sound on the front. Took X-rays off the stifles, hocks, front pasterns, and the navicular bone and had them sent to two separate equine radiologist. Came back with everything looked great, aside from some arthritis change in the left front pastern and they believe the start of navicular on both feet. (Which we aren’t sure why he didn’t respond the the nerve block by going lame on his left) No cyst or nothing major was found, however the “shell” of the bone isn’t as well defined in some areas. (Believing them to say the start of navicular is going to happen).
Me and my vet agree this could be the cause of his front lameness, so I plan on getting him injected for the navicular tomorrow. What we don’t know is why he is still lame on the back. No heat or swelling, no major hints when his suspensory was flexed in the flex test. The plan for now is the ultrasound his leg tomorrow and re-do the flex test. If nothing is found, give him time off and re-evaluate. If still off, get transferred to a bigger university.
I’m just about to leave for college this fall and in all honesty don’t have the money to be going and doing MRIs on him. Is there anything you guys can think of that I’m missing? I’m at a lost and the thought of not getting to barrel race him is eating me alive. (He’s 7 this year btw).
Any advice is very much appreciated. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
 
| I would go to the best lameness vet in your area who is good at ultrasound and reading films and has a lameness locator, not all vets are equal, it is easy to miss soft tissue damage. Good luck with him | |
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| ArrowTRanch - 2018-02-13 4:51 PM
Hello everyone. I’m at a lost at what to do and need some more opinions that aren’t going to break my bank. I started legging my gelding in the middle of January preparing for this season. Nice and easy, following my usual. I noticed he was off in the back it felt like, choppy up front. Thought maybe it’s because of the coldness, working on not the softness ground, and him not having shoes. Gave him a week off, went back at it and he was the same. Took him to the vet, he was about 1/5 lame on each of the front feet and and 3/5 lame on the back right. Nerve blocked the right foot and was sound on the front. Took X-rays off the stifles, hocks, front pasterns, and the navicular bone and had them sent to two separate equine radiologist. Came back with everything looked great, aside from some arthritis change in the left front pastern and they believe the start of navicular on both feet. (Which we aren’t sure why he didn’t respond the the nerve block by going lame on his left) No cyst or nothing major was found, however the “shell” of the bone isn’t as well defined in some areas. (Believing them to say the start of navicular is going to happen).
Me and my vet agree this could be the cause of his front lameness, so I plan on getting him injected for the navicular tomorrow. What we don’t know is why he is still lame on the back. No heat or swelling, no major hints when his suspensory was flexed in the flex test. The plan for now is the ultrasound his leg tomorrow and re-do the flex test. If nothing is found, give him time off and re-evaluate. If still off, get transferred to a bigger university.
I’m just about to leave for college this fall and in all honesty don’t have the money to be going and doing MRIs on him. Is there anything you guys can think of that I’m missing? I’m at a lost and the thought of not getting to barrel race him is eating me alive. (He’s 7 this year btw).
Any advice is very much appreciated.
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You have already had a prognosis from your vet and 2 others and all you got
was a generic CYA statement on an imagined navicular problem in the distant
future.
Stop wasting your money on vets that are lost if it is not in their text books.
You will end up with a monster vet bill at these university vet schools by
ending up with some rare anomaly to use your horse as a guinea pig.
Your horse could have something as simple as ouchy feet from being barefoot
on frozen ground, short trim, unbalanced trim or bruises in his soles. Or he
may have slipped getting up, playing or stepped on a frozen horse biscuit.
Get a friend with a good zooming video and you ride the horse in a straight line and
get front, side and rear shots of him coming and going on arena dirt with
good lighting. Then do some large winding down to small circles and a
couple of figure 8's being focused on catching his flying lead changes in
the middle of the figure 8 in both directions.
You may end up with 5-8 separate videos to post on here for everyone to
have a look-see of how he is handling his feet and head .. just make sure
they are clear and in a well lit arena ..
Also take up close pictures of each CLEAN foot on concrete so we can see
his growth rings and how the foot is sitting in a normal stance .. and label
the feet RF, LF, RR, LR and do the same of the sole and frog while holding
his feet as if you were going to nail shoes on him.
How long have you had your present farrier? ... Last date of trimming?
How often? Does your farrier use a trimming knife?
Do not do any injections on guesswork and looking for ghosts ... it is your
money so use it wisely. Keep in mind every time you inject a hoof or
joint the injection meds are not going to repair anything but are used
as a cover up of the actual problems. Injections actually shorten the
long term use of the horse due to the meds aiding the deterioration
and not re-growing or repairing anything.
Slow down and keep your money in your pocket and let's do some simple
movement evaluations while in the mean time he is resting and maybe
healing some muscle strain, frozen ground bruises or a bad trim job?????
Do the best job you can on ALL the photos and videos ...
and use our eyes to see if anything is obvious ..
The above simple items can tell you more about a horse than you will
ever believe ..
Looking forward to seeing the videos and photos ...
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Member
Posts: 28
| The only problem with that is I do not have easy access to an indoor without driving two hours, I mostly ride down a dirt road which of course is frozen and hard this winter (which is originally why I thought he felt off, but vet confirmed he was lame)
I’ll be able to get pictures of his feet tomorrow if still interested.
I’ve used the same farrier for years, and never once have had problems. Got trimmed towards the end of December, and yes used a trimming knife.
I’m not doing any injections into the joint, it is a muscular injection that my vet was recommending.
I don’t plan on going to any big universities, just was wondering if other people thought a horse could show signs of “navicular” but simply be ouchy feet.
My plan as of now is obviously get him shod right away, ultrasound his back leg to make sure there are no tears or strains that we can see, and go ride in a soft dirt arena to see if it makes a good difference. | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| If this horse is typically shod then my first approach would be to get him shod and discuss the pros and cons of pads as well.
It takes a lot longer than a couple months IMO to build a truly tough hoof capsule that can handle concussive work on hard ground.
Not the first horse who has sored up working on hard less than ideal ground. Ultimately you may need to wait for better ground to work him.
It sucks - but I would take things one affordable step at a time. Right now I’m leaning towards sore feet. | |
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| What you described is exactly what I’m going through with my mare although she is older. Vets wanted to inject and I said no. I’m not huge on injecting unless absolutely needed. We are trying a rollover shoe with pads on mine tomorrow to see if that helps.
Not much help but wanted you to know your not the only one going through that! | |
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| ArrowTRanch - 2018-02-13 8:45 PM
The only problem with that is I do not have easy access to an indoor without driving two hours, I mostly ride down a dirt road which of course is frozen and hard this winter (which is originally why I thought he felt off, but vet confirmed he was lame)
I’ll be able to get pictures of his feet tomorrow if still interested.
I’ve used the same farrier for years, and never once have had problems. Got trimmed towards the end of December, and yes used a trimming knife.
I’m not doing any injections into the joint, it is a muscular injection that my vet was recommending.
I don’t plan on going to any big universities, just was wondering if other people thought a horse could show signs of “navicular” but simply be ouchy feet.
My plan as of now is obviously get him shod right away, ultrasound his back leg to make sure there are no tears or strains that we can see, and go ride in a soft dirt arena to see if it makes a good difference.
Comparing original post to what you say now ...
Me and my vet agree this could be the cause of his front lameness, so I plan on getting him injected for the navicular tomorrow. What we don’t know is why he is still lame on the back. No heat or swelling, no major hints when his suspensory was flexed in the flex test. The plan for now is the ultrasound his leg tomorrow and re-do the flex test. If nothing is found, give him time off and re-evaluate. If still off, get transferred to a bigger university.
I’m just about to leave for college this fall and in all honesty don’t have the money to be going and doing MRIs on him. Is there anything you guys can think of that I’m missing? I’m at a lost and the thought of not getting to barrel race him is eating me alive. (He’s 7 this year btw).
Muscle injection for navicular??
I’m not doing any injections into the joint, it is a muscular injection that my vet was recommending.
I don’t plan on going to any big universities
The only problem with that is I do not have easy access to an indoor without driving two hours
My plan as of now is obviously get him shod right away, ultrasound his back leg to make sure there are no tears or strains that we can see, and go ride in a soft dirt arena to see if it makes a good difference.
****************************************************************************
I always find it interesting to see people refuse to do something simple to figure
out their horse problems but will continue to pay a vet to experiment on their
horse even after he says he has no idea what the problem is .....
Right now my thoughts are over grown feet, cupped feet with over trimmed frogs
that have had snowballs or mudballs in them and then rode on a frozen road
that fail to turnover on the hard surface and a very out of shape horse.
.
NUFF SAID ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2018-02-14 2:36 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | Im going with the hard ground. If his front is hurting him he could be overcompensating and thats what making the back unsound. Especially if you havent been able to find any other explanation. the reason i say this is, last summer one of my horses were down at training, came up lame after the farrier had been out. Didnt come out of it for almost a week, so i had the vet out to do x-rays. She said she thought "navicular changes" in his right front, but couldn't tell for sure without an MRI, i didnt have the money to drop on one. So, she perscribed isox daily and bute when needed after hard riding. 2 days after being on the isox he was sound and back to working again. I eventually ran out of the isox and couldnt get any for a while due to shortage, but continued riding and he was completely fine. He hasnt taken a lame step since then and he hasnt been on the isox since then either. Hes even barefoot right now as well. My guess is it still went back to the farrier. If i was you, i would wait till you can get somewhere with proper ground, work him and go from there. Start simple and the cheapest before dropping $$$$. If the ground doesnt change anything, then i would seek out a GOOD lameness vet and not just someone thats going to chalk it up to a "typical" diagnosis. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| ArrowTRanch - 2018-02-13 8:45 PM
The only problem with that is I do not have easy access to an indoor without driving two hours, I mostly ride down a dirt road which of course is frozen and hard this winter (which is originally why I thought he felt off, but vet confirmed he was lame)
I’ll be able to get pictures of his feet tomorrow if still interested.
I’ve used the same farrier for years, and never once have had problems. Got trimmed towards the end of December, and yes used a trimming knife.
I’m not doing any injections into the joint, it is a muscular injection that my vet was recommending.
I don’t plan on going to any big universities, just was wondering if other people thought a horse could show signs of “navicular” but simply be ouchy feet.
My plan as of now is obviously get him shod right away, ultrasound his back leg to make sure there are no tears or strains that we can see, and go ride in a soft dirt arena to see if it makes a good difference.
Yes, it could be as simple as sore feet. I think just about every time I take a horse in to the university to be evaluated I get, "showing signs of possible navicular". I have yet to have a horse with navicular.
I'd try some Epsom salt poultice on his feet, paint with some iodine to harden the sole(just don't get on the frog) and keep him off hard ground as much as possible. | |
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 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | There are numerous injections for possible treatment of navicular. You need to know what your vet was talking about. Osphos, Adequan, Petosan, or injecting the joint itself? These are vastly different options and that would be important to know.
I'd likely go to a lameness specialist first though. By the way you described things, it sound like he may not be expert in lameness. My lameness exams at the equine hospital take 3 hours and are very extensive. The radiographs are analyzed on-site by a team and the prognosis and diagnosis are made right then. Sounds like your guy is doing some guesswork.
Just my opinion and my reading between the lines.
I do have a mare with navicular. Her symptoms were sore right front foot, enlarged left shoulder, and lame in left hock/stifle area. The stem of the pain was right front with navicular, the left side was compensating. Gave osphos, added wedged shoes with equipak. Now I wait.
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