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 Expert
Posts: 1302
 
Location: California | When watching a horse do dry work would you prefer a horse being rode into the bridle and collected up OR would you rather see the horse on a loose rein how they naturally carry themselves? Or would you like to see both if the horse does both? Very curious what others think on this. Particularly when seeing a video of a horse for sale or watching someone show a horse to you. Thanks! |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | always a loose rein. I hate seeing horses gathered up and pushed into the bridle, often with their head to their chest. If they pick up the reins I want to see that horse drop it's nose and break at the poll but not gather up like a reiner. I am all about soft soft. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
 
Location: Somewhere around here | I like it both ways. I like it when I can be more handsy with a horse if they need help or asking for more advanced movements; but I LOVE it when I can trot and lope a horse on a free rein, especially out on trail. |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | Yes, if the horse can, I like to see both ways. It tells a lot on where the horse is mentally. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | I'm on the "both" train as well. I have a mare I usually ride on a loose rein because she's lazy and you don't have to hold her back from anything, but I want to make sure I can collect her up and drive her forward as well. She could pass for a pleasure horse on a loose rein, she travels beautifully, but I want to be able to pick up and move her body whichever way. I have one that is alllll go, and I really wish I could ride her on a loose rein without going 100mph. I'd want to see both.
Edited by Last Catt 2018-02-18 10:39 PM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| A horse has to be able to do both on order to be actually broke. Riding in Frame allows you to soften them and work on manipulating and isolate body parts when you have to work on stuff. It is also important for strengthening the back and working toward collection. Riding on a loose rein allows you to check your training and the horse to be a horse but be soft when asked. |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | Last Catt - 2018-02-18 8:36 PM I'm on the "both" train as well. I have a mare I usually ride on a loose rein because she's lazy and you don't have to hold her back from anything, but I want to make sure I can collect her up and drive her forward as well. She could pass for a pleasure horse on a loose rein, she travels beautifully, but I want to be able to pick up and move her body whichever way. I have one that is alllll go, and I really wish I could ride her on a loose rein without going 100mph. I'd want to see both.
 I like to collect-up with tons of one-rein stops on those that take off on a loose rein. |
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Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | I'll PM you skye.
Edited by Last Catt 2018-02-18 11:27 PM
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | skye - 2018-02-18 9:44 PM Yes, if the horse can, I like to see both ways. It tells a lot on where the horse is mentally.
This. I can see a lot of the amount of "training" the ad has quoted as well. |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-02-18 10:49 PM
A horse has to be able to do both on order to be actually broke. Riding in Frame allows you to soften them and work on manipulating and isolate body parts when you have to work on stuff. It is also important for strengthening the back and working toward collection. Riding on a loose rein allows you to check your training and the horse to be a horse but be soft when asked.
This. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| If I’m looking at a horse who is supposedly ready to go the pattern...
I like to see them accepting of contact, driving up under themselves, dropping the head and neck and lifting through the shoulders, nose vertical or slightly ahead with the poll above the wither. I like to see soft contact, I don’t want to see the rider having to be handsy, I want to see the horse moving forward off the leg into the bridle.
I also want to see them move on a loose rein and hold a straight line, turn etc without rein direction.
I don’t want to see it over done. We have one who is Gumby necked, guessing harsh hands in the past and his response to almost any hand cue is to pin his nose to his chest, ask him to flex and he’ll bend in half, all while playing anxiously with the bit. It’s obnoxious and hard to get quality dry work done. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | When riding in frame and collected, how many have actually seen a video with it done correctly? I have seen maybe 2 online in all my years of watching sale videos. That is why I answered how I did. Ideally, it would be nice to see one gathered up-softly with no resistance and the horse keeping it's head steady with forward motion. But I have yet to see even some of the supposed best colt starters do this. Most videos I have watched have the horse gathered up so tight there is definite resistance, holding the reins steady so the horse has no where to go. Tail swishing and lack of cadence. I watch 5 seconds of that and move on to another horse.
If you buy that, you end up with a mentally fried horse, sore throughout the back not to mention the damage done to the mouth.
A horse can collect up without having to hold them up, it's in riders seat and hands. Light pressure and you can gallop 9-0 around an arena and with just sitting on your seat, picking up slightly get the horse to come under themselves and collect for a slow canter...for a turn, stop etc. |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | OhMax - 2018-02-19 9:48 AM
If I’m looking at a horse who is supposedly ready to go the pattern...
I like to see them accepting of contact, driving up under themselves, dropping the head and neck and lifting through the shoulders, nose vertical or slightly ahead with the poll above the wither. I like to see soft contact, I don’t want to see the rider having to be handsy, I want to see the horse moving forward off the leg into the bridle.
I also want to see them move on a loose rein and hold a straight line, turn etc without rein direction.
I don’t want to see it over done. We have one who is Gumby necked, guessing harsh hands in the past and his response to almost any hand cue is to pin his nose to his chest, ask him to flex and he’ll bend in half, all while playing anxiously with the bit. It’s obnoxious and hard to get quality dry work done.
I have one that was overdone as well, not so much laterally as vertically. But he is coming out of it slowly. It's a give and take with a LOT of patience to "fix" lol. One day I was riding with what I'd consider a "dull" bit (he didn't respect it at all) and he was pushing against my hands...most of the time that would be a no-no, with him I was like AHAH, YES! I allowed it for the day, then went back to asking for collection and driving into the bit the next day. Some days it looks rough, but he is coming out of the nose-to-chest mentality finally.  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| wyoming barrel racer - 2018-02-19 10:28 AM
When riding in frame and collected, how many have actually seen a video with it done correctly? I have seen maybe 2 online in all my years of watching sale videos. That is why I answered how I did. Ideally, it would be nice to see one gathered up-softly with no resistance and the horse keeping it's head steady with forward motion. But I have yet to see even some of the supposed best colt starters do this. Most videos I have watched have the horse gathered up so tight there is definite resistance, holding the reins steady so the horse has no where to go. Tail swishing and lack of cadence. I watch 5 seconds of that and move on to another horse.
If you buy that, you end up with a mentally fried horse, sore throughout the back not to mention the damage done to the mouth.
A horse can collect up without having to hold them up, it's in riders seat and hands. Light pressure and you can gallop 9-0 around an arena and with just sitting on your seat, picking up slightly get the horse to come under themselves and collect for a slow canter...for a turn, stop etc.
I agree with you completely. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 239
| Same as most above, I like to see both, but I think I am defining "into the bridle" differently than most of you. I think of into the bridle as collecting properly, lifting withers, and moving with back up....on the bit but not leaning on it - rather than a lot of the comments above as "tuck nose to chest" - that is false collection, it's a horse evading the bit, and of course I would never want to see this on a sale video!!
I also like to see them on a loose rein to evaluate their response to a leg or hand cue, also helps to see how they are going to naturally move, especially for a horse for barrels (nobody is running at 1st with collection!).
Myself for dry work/conditioning I ride probably 75% of the time collected to strengthen that top line.
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | wyoming barrel racer - 2018-02-18 9:43 PM
always a loose rein. I hate seeing horses gathered up and pushed into the bridle, often with their head to their chest. If they pick up the reins I want to see that horse drop it's nose and break at the poll but not gather up like a reiner. I am all about soft soft.
I think a lot of people think that if a horses head is down that they’re collected and that’s definitely not the case!!! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | RnRJack - 2018-02-19 7:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2018-02-18 9:43 PM always a loose rein. I hate seeing horses gathered up and pushed into the bridle, often with their head to their chest. If they pick up the reins I want to see that horse drop it's nose and break at the poll but not gather up like a reiner. I am all about soft soft. I think a lot of people think that if a horses head is down that they’re collected and that’s definitely not the case!!!
exactly, and nose tucked to the chest or shoulder in a small circle doesn't mean anything either. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | IMO, barrel horses need to be able to run without thinking they should be behind the bridle.
So for mine, I let them carry their head where they want to for most of the warm up, but I will do various drills where I ask for framed up collection and to back off the bit as soon as I ask.
So i guess to answer your question, in a video I want to see both but I want to see more loose rein. |
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Expert
Posts: 1302
Location: California | Thank you everyone! I appreciate the input. |
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