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Location: Oklahoma | If we rule out the obvious, pain, as a cause for ducking, what are some other reasons? Could it be running all the way to the fence he thinks he has no room to turn correctly, so ducks and runs the other way up the fence? Could it be the horse is extremely nervous (which he is), and the rider's nerves feed into his nervousness and cause this? BTW, he was on the correct (right) lead going to the first barrel and immediately switched to turn and duck to the left. I don't know if the horse has done this before with someone else. This was my first time to run him in competition. I don't have a video but will try to get one. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
  
Location: WYOMING | Light colored walls
Dark colored walls
Things in the stands
Rider error
Rider leaning
Vision
Undiagnosed pain
Fixed pain, now habit
Headgear
Teeth
Ulcers
Woke up wrong side of the stall
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 Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | Coffin joint problems. A couple friends that had horses run up the fence and had coffin joint injections and they stopped. One did not show signs that he was sore there either. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| Does NOT want to be a barrel horse! Sometimes breeding, soundness, everything you can think of checks out FINE, and some horses just don't want to be a barrel horse. Happens with human athletes to. THere are some people who would probably make the olympics with their speed and athleticism, but they don't want to , so they don't. I have run across a couple of these type horses in my life. Should be going to the NFR, but are going down a trail instead, happy as can be. At my age I have found that as soon as a horse does that they need to go do something else with someone else.
Edited by FLITASTIC 2018-05-21 1:49 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Wow, these are all great reasons. I am really wondering about the coffin joint,especially. I know this horse did have his front coffin joints injected last fall so may be due for some more. You guys have reasons I never would have thought of. |
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| Bleeder |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Bleeding is another one I hadn't thought of. Some more background is that I was just the "jump rider." I had ridden him once before in an exhibition and we really don't know a whole lot about this horse. Don't know if he ever did it before or not, but he was good in the exhibitions and pulled this stunt during a real run. I see there are a lot of things now to rule out. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | I think 99% of the time duckers and ones the run up the fence start doing it because of soreness. Then it becomes a habit and they'll feed off the rider. You have to spend a very long time building their confidence back up.
The other 1% is a fluke...rider error, seeing something, nerves, etc...
Edited by TheDutchMan01 2018-05-21 2:56 PM
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 Scooters Savior
Location: "Si Fi" Ville | Adding to all of the above: And airway issues, flapper etc. |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | A lot of times ducking a barrel is a soft tissue problem like a Suspensory. Suspensory issues usually don’t show on a lameness exam.
I would make sure soft tissue in the right front ultra sounds normal.
Edited by Liana D 2018-05-21 4:59 PM
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| shaunar - 2018-05-21 12:57 PM
If we rule out the obvious, pain, as a cause for ducking, what are some other reasons? Could it be running all the way to the fence he thinks he has no room to turn correctly, so ducks and runs the other way up the fence? Could it be the horse is extremely nervous (which he is), and the rider's nerves feed into his nervousness and cause this? BTW, he was on the correct (right) lead going to the first barrel and immediately switched to turn and duck to the left. I don't know if the horse has done this before with someone else. This was my first time to run him in competition. I don't have a video but will try to get one.
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RIDER ON NEW HORSE …. stuff happens
Now you know ..
rider needs to pilot // control the horse thru the barrels ..
If I bought a new horse and failed to get his cues from previous
owner while riding him …
I would study videos of them riding and then phone the previous
owner for a re fresher conversation … |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I’m not sure but I know two horses personally that’s used to be chronic duckers (and in both cases it was never the same barrel). In one case the horse didn’t stop until it ended up with a new owner. I’m not sure what the new owner did different but I know the previous owner had tried everything and spared no expenses. With the other horse, it had a ducking (and major gate problem) when this girl bought him. She did some chiro and massage with him but as far as I know nothing too crazy. Pretty much the two were just meant to be and as he got more confident his problems just faded away. I haven’t seen him have a gate problem or duck a barrel in at least 10 years, and he went on to be a true 1D horse.
ETA I almost completely forgot my own horse ducked on me my second time running her. First run she got a few strides past her first, so when I ran her the second time “alright I’m really going to rate her” and I used my hands. She flung her nose and ran straight to the wall. Turns out she does NOT like when you use your hands like that lol 6 years later and she has never done it again.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2018-05-21 6:13 PM
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Expert
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Location: Oklahoma | I want to thank everyone for your replies and all the information. As an update, the owner called me and told me after she had turned him out in the pasture for the night to rest, he came up dead lame this morning - on the right front foot and it was the right (first) barrel that he ducked. So off to the vet and hopefully it is something that is not major. We think it's pretty much a done deal that he was hurting or did hurt something in that foot/leg during that run that didn't show up until today. Thanks again, guys. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | livexlovexrodeo - 2018-05-21 6:10 PM
I’m not sure but I know two horses personally that’s used to be chronic duckers (and in both cases it was never the same barrel). In one case the horse didn’t stop until it ended up with a new owner. I’m not sure what the new owner did different but I know the previous owner had tried everything and spared no expenses. With the other horse, it had a ducking (and major gate problem) when this girl bought him. She did some chiro and massage with him but as far as I know nothing too crazy. Pretty much the two were just meant to be and as he got more confident his problems just faded away. I haven’t seen him have a gate problem or duck a barrel in at least 10 years, and he went on to be a true 1D horse.
ETA I almost completely forgot my own horse ducked on me my second time running her. First run she got a few strides past her first, so when I ran her the second time “alright I’m really going to rate her” and I used my hands. She flung her nose and ran straight to the wall. Turns out she does NOT like when you use your hands like that lol 6 years later and she has never done it again.
This is what I was talking about. In both these instances it took someone building their confidence back. The first rider probably was too nervous and stressed and couldn’t move past the thought that the horse was going to duck. The second rider probably didn’t fret it so much and was able to build that horse back up. After you fix the soreness/pain you have to build their mentality back up too. It takes time & dedication.
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | Ulcers |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Wait. Did the horse turn in front of the barrel (ie:duck) or did the horse turn away from the barrel and run up the fence? You said it turned left, so if it goes to the right barrel first it would have run up the rail, but if it goes to the left barrel first it could have ducked.
Ducking is usually a pain response I think. Rail running is more of a bleeding, nerves, doesn't want to barrel race thing, imo. |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | He committed to the turn, first barrel to the right. Then popped into his left lead and whipped a hard left and ran up the rail to the end of the arena, down through the tractor enclosure, past the tractors, before I got him stopped. I was very blessed to stay on him! I was thinking nervousness at first but he came up 3 legged lame a day later and so far we have found a bad abscess in the left front. Maybe a combination of nerves and the abscess? I am puzzled though since the abscess is in the left front foot and he refused the right handed turn. |
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Expert
Posts: 5290
| Just like my vet says, horses REACT to pain. So I'm sure it was hurting as he ran to the first barrel. He knew a rate and turn was approaching and felt the pain and sold out. He was not running to the first barrel going " My left front hurts, should be OK to turn this one, but i really have to remember to duck on the second one cause its going to hurt more". LOL
Edited by FLITASTIC 2018-05-24 2:40 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Too funny! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | shaunar - 2018-05-24 2:33 PM
He committed to the turn, first barrel to the right. Then popped into his left lead and whipped a hard left and ran up the rail to the end of the arena, down through the tractor enclosure, past the tractors, before I got him stopped. I was very blessed to stay on him! I was thinking nervousness at first but he came up 3 legged lame a day later and so far we have found a bad abscess in the left front. Maybe a combination of nerves and the abscess? I am puzzled though since the abscess is in the left front foot and he refused the right handed turn.
I really don't think there is always a rhyme or reason to the side the pain is on vs the way they don't want to turn. I think they just look for an out. Some can tough through the first turn and others cant! Some will start to commit and then bail out and others just never truly commit. A right turn would definitely still hurt a left foot with an abscess though! |
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