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| Other than the articles I can find with a google search, does anyone know of any groups that talk about this? I would like to find someone that about talks this in plain language I can understand. I'm not sure I understand what this is all about, how to manage it and what to feed a horse with this condition. If you have encountered this, please enlighten me.
I did a search on here as well and didn't find much. Thanks, BHW. | |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | If it’s just normal EMS, usually low starch, low NSC feed manages it. I have some that instead of grain, they get alfalfa and some grass hay. I have one that can’t have green grass. Triple Crown Senior or Purina Wellsolve are 2 very low NSC feeds.
There is a PSSM Forum on fb. I has a lot of good info. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 155
| I have a mare that had foundered before I got her, a little over 2 years ago. I immediately put her on a controlled diet because she had a cresty neck and was just fat! About 6 months later I took her to the vet where she was diagnosed with EMS. she was still a 6 on the overweight scale so I again revamped her diet. My opinion is that EMS means they are predisposed to having a weight issue which leads to other things. Again, my opinion. This same mare today is a healthy weight with no issues. However, she is on a strict feed routine. She is heavily muscled so will never be little, and a good weight for her is 1175(weighed at the vet). I feed:
9lbs teff hay in a slow feeder, 2x a day
3lbs alfalfa cubes,2x a day
California trace vitamin mineral
2tbps salt
1 cup ground flax seed
Edited by Junebug1 2019-01-15 12:23 PM
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| Thank you for replying. I have mine on oats and brome. I believe ulcers are an issue so I'm looking for something other than oats. Thanks again for the suggestions. Oh, and I was told alfalfa was a big no for him. So, the alfalfa is confusing me.
Edited by y_do_i_do_this 2019-01-15 1:44 PM
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| TheHorse.com is a great magazine that is written in plain language by vets and other equine professionals, and I know they have quite a few articles about EMS.
The main problem with alfalfa is the high sugar content, so if you were able to have it tested and speak with an equine nutritionist or your equine vet, they would be able to tell you if the alfalfa you are/were feeding is actually okay to feed, if it just needs to be soaked beforehand or completely cut out, etc. and they would be able to make a game plan tailored to your horses’ needs. | |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | madredepeanut - 2019-01-16 12:11 AM
TheHorse.com is a great magazine that is written in plain language by vets and other equine professionals, and I know they have quite a few articles about EMS.
The main problem with alfalfa is the high sugar content, so if you were able to have it tested and speak with an equine nutritionist or your equine vet, they would be able to tell you if the alfalfa you are/were feeding is actually okay to feed, if it just needs to be soaked beforehand or completely cut out, etc. and they would be able to make a game plan tailored to your horses’ needs.
Alfalfa is low NSC (non structural carbohydrates), not high in sugar, very nutritious. Some horses, depending on their metabolic issue, cannot tolerate it.
If you want to take most of the starch out of grass hay, soak it over nite. Soaking over nite will remove about 80% of the starch, compared to soaking for an hour, removes about 20% of he starch.
Edited by Liana D 2019-01-16 12:05 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 291
| Sounds like cushings....I had a TWH with it years ago. Managed with diet and a pill daily precend .....I beleive the medication is called. Very manageable with diet.
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Member
Posts: 14
Location: Southern California | Check out the ECIR group on Facebook. Lots of great info there | |
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| Liana D - 2019-01-16 9:16 AM
madredepeanut - 2019-01-16 12:11 AM
TheHorse.com is a great magazine that is written in plain language by vets and other equine professionals, and I know they have quite a few articles about EMS.
The main problem with alfalfa is the high sugar content, so if you were able to have it tested and speak with an equine nutritionist or your equine vet, they would be able to tell you if the alfalfa you are/were feeding is actually okay to feed, if it just needs to be soaked beforehand or completely cut out, etc. and they would be able to make a game plan tailored to your horses’ needs.
Alfalfa is low NSC (non structural carbohydrates ), not high in sugar, very nutritious. Some horses, depending on their metabolic issue, cannot tolerate it.
If you want to take most of the starch out of grass hay, soak it over nite. Soaking over nite will remove about 80% of the starch, compared to soaking for an hour, removes about 20% of he starch.
You are correct, I misspoke- grass hay is higher in sugar, not alfalfa. Alfalfa, while more nutritious, is also higher in calories, and if the OP’s horse is already an easy keeper, that may be why she was told to eliminate alfalfa. I highly recommend testing the hay being fed, if possible, but I do understand if that’s not available. Teff hay is also a great option for EMS horses.
Here is a good Q&A from TheHorse.com explaining in layman’s terms EMS and low-carb/“no-carb” diets:
https://thehorse.com/16902/ems-and-low-carb-diets-whats-right-for-yo... | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have a gelding thats IR and found this out going on 3 years ago, I feed a supplement called Heiro once a day and feed him a Anti-carb supplement from MVP.. and he's fed Triple Crown Lite, no pasture unless for a few hours a day once a week after he gets his belly full of hay so he wont pig out on the grass.. I have to be carefull of the hay I buy, dont want a good sugary hay got to be on the really low side of sugar, I'll give him just a half of a flake of alfalfa maybe 3 times a week.. I have another gelding thats a really easy keeper and got to heavy so started him on Quiessence lost the cresty neck really like the results I saw with it, so when I run out of the ant-carb and the Heiro for my IR gelding I'm going to put him on it and see how he does.. Theres tons of good info on IR and equine metabolic syndrome horses, I have found some good info on google and of course my Vet I give him all the credit for finding the problem and helping me help my gelding. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | cmpsp1 - 2019-01-16 12:46 PM
Sounds like cushings....I had a TWH with it years ago. Managed with diet and a pill daily precend .....I beleive the medication is called. Very manageable with diet.
Its different than cushings (now called PPID) but its common to have a horse with both PPID and EMS and until you get the PPID under control its very hard to get the EMS under control.
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | So in plain language EMS is a metabolic condition that is often affected in "easy keeper" horses. EMS usually affects horses who seem to stay fat on thin air and struggle losing weight. Theres thoughts that there are genetic components to EMS. I don't want to get too in depth on that, but there are definitely breed predispositions to it- ponies, donkeys, certain breeds of horses..
Often times they have abnormal deposition of fat- around the tail head, in front of the udder or sheath, or the classic "cresty neck." They even may have fat pads on their barrel. If you've ever driven by a pasture of well kept donkeys, I'm sure you've seen the donkey with really odd lumps of fat on them. They are more extreme examples, but examples nonetheless.
Obesity, insulin resistance, and history of laminitis paint a really clear picture of EMS. They all tie in together. Fat is an organ, messes with your hormones, and secretes hormones of its own. Insulin resistance in horses is not diabetes but I guess if you were going to compare it to something human I could say you could do that. For some reason horses with IR have greater than normal glucose spikes and get a persistent elevated blood sugar content than normal horses. On top of that, their body doesn't respond to insulin normally. So the constant elevated blood glucose level can effect the blood vessels- especially in the foot- which can predispose them to laminitic episodes. The higher than normal levels of insulin can affect vasoconstriction, which decrease blood flow to the foot. And since glucose has issues getting into tissues in IR horses, the epidermal cells in the foot aren't getting the energy they need. Then it all cascades.
The type of laminitis that occurs with EMS horses can be slow in onset and recurrent. They may not always get rotation on episode #1 but over time you can see chronic laminitic changes on x rays. Sometimes they do have a really severe laminitic episode with rotation. Sometimes the laminitis is the first sign to an owner that their horse has EMS. some horses go years without foundering or at least foundering to the point the owner notices. They can have chronic "sore feet" or get "ouchy" after being shod or trimmed, and an owner who isn't aware of EMS may not realize those are subtle signs of a greater problem.
Not all fat horses have EMS and not all horses with EMS are fat. So that can complicate things..
And EMS can occur concurrently with PPID. Theres some thoughts they are related, some thoughts that its just because they both affect horses in similar age groups.. but if your horse has PPID and EMS, you wont be able to get a handle on the weight loss and insulin control until you get control of the PPID.
If your vet has not submitted bloodwork to confirm EMS, I would do it. Also, the company that makes Prascend does seasonal testing discounts where clinics get a few free tests per year. It would not hurt to periodically check up on that if you are curious. We test for ACTH (for the PPID) glucose, insulin T4, and Leptin. It goes to the cornell laboratory and any vet can send it off. That way you have a diagnosis (again not all fat horses have EMS, sometimes they are just fed too much), and a baseline to measure from.
The biggest key is to 1- control any concurrent PPID, 2- control the diet: get off pasture, use a grazing muzzle if you absolutely cant, feed older less nutritious hay, soak hay for at least an hour and DRAIN the water off, otherwise you feed them sugar water soup. Like Liana said Alfalfa is OK for some horses but each horse is different. Whatever you do, slow feeders help because it stretches their meals out longer. Also the low starch ration balancer type feeds are useful because they get their vitamins and minerals with less calories and starch. And 3- exercise! This can be difficult if the horse already has laminitis and cant really get out and move, but if you have a horse who is sound or comfortable, even walking for 20 min a day helps. But exercise is crucial for helping burn calories. And lastly, there are some medications (Thyro-L can sometimes help increase metabolism, metaboleeze is a supplement that anecdeotally helps, PRASCEND if the horse concurrently has PPID).
Hope that helped.
Edited by casualdust07 2019-01-17 11:01 AM
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