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Back injections

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Last activity 2020-05-18 9:27 AM
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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-05-12 9:23 AM
Subject: Back injections



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I had back injections done on my mare on May 1. Four spaces injected just behind the withers. Vet said wait 7-10 days before riding, and I just got back on her last night. She's been lunged some during those 10 days with & without saddle. Also was told to give Equioxx for 30 days, which she's been getting. There was no change at all in the first ride, which I kind of expected. After having issues trying to ride for 2 years and it just progressively getting worse, some of it is probably habit at this point. We did mesotherapy last October with pretty much no success, vet didn't want to try another round since there was no improvement. I will say I didn't give it a ton of time before deciding it didn't help. It seemed to help as far as touching the area, she didn't show a pain response to the touch. But riding was the same & she was ridden for 2 weeks after & then I kicked her back out. She has KS in this area, and some trauma to 3 of the vertebrae involved as well. Not sure how the trauma happened, but looks like the 3 just knocked together at some point. Both of my specialist vets said the trauma was old. I've posted about her before on here in other threads. Anyway, point of this is....has anyone had a horse that needed its back injected & how long did it take to see results? I realize if this has become a habit issue it will take time, but at what point do you say ok what we did isn't working & try the next step. 30 days? More? Less? I would think even if we didn't inject the correct ones that after 11 days of Equioxx the pain would be considerably reduced & some type of result would be seen as we go from here. She's striding out way more when lunging so that tells me something is better. Which makes me think the riding part is just more habit that needs to be worked through. 

 

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Chandler's Mom
Reg. Jan 2015
Posted 2020-05-12 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Back injections



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willrodeo4food
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2020-05-12 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: Back injections



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I have a mare with the beginings of some KS issues further back.  She was injected a year and half ago.  4 what seemed to me to be huge injections.  I was given strict instructions for complete stall rest for two weeks and start hand walking for 10 minutes after the first week and working up by 5 minutes a day.  No riding during that time.  I wound up going out of town and she got an extra week and half off after that.  I noticed an immediate difference the first ride back (after about 3 1/2 weeks) and it's been a while and she seems to be maintaining really well. 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-05-15 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Back injections



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She's worse now than she was 6 months ago, even after the injections. Keeps palpating super sore in SI area, which we didn't do anything with since we're trying one thing at a time. I can't even get her to take a few steps at a walk with a rider, but she's lunging beautifully. She's got her head level & actually naturally reaching up under herself with the back end. So something has got to be better there. Chiro comes next weekend for their regular maintenance. Vet & I decided to give her 30 days before we try injecting the SI. He said she should have been much better by now if the injections had worked. Also looking into Tildren to help with the deterioration that has been done. I hate to give up on her at just 6 years old, but at some point she may just become a broodmare & I'll quit just have to running until her first colt is ready 

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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2020-05-15 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Back injections


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JLazyT_perf_horses - 2020-05-15 8:30 AM


She's worse now than she was 6 months ago, even after the injections. Keeps palpating super sore in SI area, which we didn't do anything with since we're trying one thing at a time. I can't even get her to take a few steps at a walk with a rider, but she's lunging beautifully. She's got her head level & actually naturally reaching up under herself with the back end. So something has got to be better there. Chiro comes next weekend for their regular maintenance. Vet & I decided to give her 30 days before we try injecting the SI. He said she should have been much better by now if the injections had worked. Also looking into Tildren to help with the deterioration that has been done. I hate to give up on her at just 6 years old, but at some point she may just become a broodmare & I'll quit just have to running until her first colt is ready 


Sounds like back problems are not the only problem. SI soreness usually come from below, like hocks or stifles . 
back injections won't last very long unless you change the way they travel and you'll probably have to do some supportive chiro work to help re align the spine. Wither facet problems are a bugger and can be really hard to manage. Belly lifts, cst stretches and riding engaged/collected will help open up the spine. 
Duration of your injections also depends on what he used, cortisone or serapin or both. If you didn't see a response in 2 weeks, I think there's more going on. 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-05-15 11:32 AM
Subject: RE: Back injections



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Liana D - 2020-05-15 9:56 AM

JLazyT_perf_horses - 2020-05-15 8:30 AM

She's worse now than she was 6 months ago, even after the injections. Keeps palpating super sore in SI area, which we didn't do anything with since we're trying one thing at a time. I can't even get her to take a few steps at a walk with a rider, but she's lunging beautifully. She's got her head level & actually naturally reaching up under herself with the back end. So something has got to be better there. Chiro comes next weekend for their regular maintenance. Vet & I decided to give her 30 days before we try injecting the SI. He said she should have been much better by now if the injections had worked. Also looking into Tildren to help with the deterioration that has been done. I hate to give up on her at just 6 years old, but at some point she may just become a broodmare & I'll quit just have to running until her first colt is ready 

Sounds like back problems are not the only problem. SI soreness usually come from below, like hocks or stifles . 
back injections won't last very long unless you change the way they travel and you'll probably have to do some supportive chiro work to help re align the spine. Wither facet problems are a bugger and can be really hard to manage. Belly lifts, cst stretches and riding engaged/collected will help open up the spine. 
Duration of your injections also depends on what he used, cortisone or serapin or both. If you didn't see a response in 2 weeks, I think there's more going on. 

Yes, we know there's more going on. This has been ongoing since 2017 trying to find the source(s) and work on them one at a time. She has juvenile arthritis in her hocks, she grew to her full 16h height by 3 which is what the vet thinks caused that. She's all legs. Was downhill by about an inch but that's leveled out mostly. I didn't have any trouble with her until spring of 18 really, but I had just let her sit besides a couple random rides after I got her in 2017. She was a futurity reject & needed to just get turned out for awhile to regain what was left of her brain. She was reluctant to move forward, mostly at a lope. Then it just progressed from there. Constant stifle catching, toe dragging, & loping on the wrong lead behind & switching. All while lunging. Things escalated last spring when I put her back to work as a 5 year old. Lasted 2 weeks before she quit loping to the right & backed a circle on he rown for 17 minutes just to avoid going forward. Been doing process of elimination since then. She gets chiro/massage/magnawave monthly. And we do all the hind end strengthening suggestions daily, started that for her catching stifles. Vet wasn't super concerned with the stifles due to her having a conformation that is more prone to it and the fact that she was just a pasture horse for so long. With regular lunging work & the exercises that almost stopped. We did the mesotherapy on her in mid October and then I injected her hocks the first of November. That stopped her buckling her back legs when doing downward transitions & so far the stifles cathcing has been eliminated completely. She did it once yesterday, but we just got about 4" of new sand in the arena & the footing still has places it needs leveled out. Stifle xrays all were perfect. And both vets feel she has strong back muscles core at this moment given all the strength trianing exerises from lunging, etc. 

We pinpointed the spot behind her withers on thermal & started there. So for the mesotherapy I didn't feel really any change, she still would stop & start backing circles when you asked to lope right. However to the left she was fine & walk & trot to the right she was fine. It did seem a little easier to ger her forward though. Usually if you try to stop her from abcking the circle she just rears up. And you can't engage her to the right or she does as well, but you can get her to circle around to the left fine. And she constantly just chomps on her bit when you're on her back, but she doesn't mess with it at all if you're not on her. Different saddles and/or riders don't change behavior. So given the meso seemed like it maybe helped a hair we decided to try injecting directly. Her issue is at some point she must've flipped over because the vertebrae involved have also been fractured at some point. Both vets agreed it wasn't recent. So it's also a game of, is it the KS or the damage of the old fractures in that spot. Which is why we didn't just jump right in to surgery. Now after injections I can't even get her to walk forward without arguing. She also probably has figured out that when she does that I quit fighting with her & just get off not wanting to increase aggrivation. So all I have to do is bump my legs or even cluck like I want to move her forward and she gives me the middle finger. She stuck her chest in the corner last night knowing there could be no forward & reared when I tried to turn her left or right. But she backed up a few steps & I somehow managed to get her turned around left. So then I went to the middle and just started riding her like a colt, giving her nose right & then progressed to stepping right when I asked with the outside leg. She's a fully broke horse with all the buttons, so this isn't new stuff. With her SI we waited because if we injected both then there's no way to tell which one was right. And the SI issues could have been related to her back and hocks & how she's had to carry herself for at least 3 years now. So even after injecting I'm just going backwards with her still. She will get the SI injected after we give her 30 days. Tuesday she walked around just fine with me on her. Wednesday I just lunged her and she moved so different, in the best way. It also doesn't help that she's that type of red mare that if you give her a fraction of an inch she's going to take 10 miles and is constatly working to outsmart you. Very much a does what she wants, when she wants type of horse. So for the next couple weeks she's just going to continue to go back to colt breaking 101 if I have to, even if it's just getting her to maintain a walk. He did Kenalog & depo combo & he said if it were going to work I would see a difference by now unless we're also fighting a habit now. Which is why he suggested I keep trying for a few more weeks, given that this has been going on for 3 years now.

I'm only into her for $1,500 in vet bills at this point, she was willed to me when a family member passed. And I feel like for a 6 year old with BB, MSM, and Alive N Firen on her papers I'm still not really out anything trying. Otherwise I'd have passed her on to someone else by now or just quit and use her for a broodmare. She's out of the same mare as the yellow stud Lance has been running, Rockbottomfreebird 



Edited by JLazyT_perf_horses 2020-05-15 11:44 AM
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Liana D
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2020-05-15 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Back injections


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I hope I didn't miss this in the timeline but if she has t had her hocks injected since November she's probably sore in them . 
mid she's that bad (no forward motion) after injection I would make sure she didn't have some laminitis going on from the cortisone.

if you haven't already ran any blood I would want to look at their Ck and ast levels to make sure she's not trying to tie up. 

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RoaniePonie11
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2020-05-15 9:20 PM
Subject: RE: Back injections


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my vet says back & stifles go together. When one is sore, the other will be too becuase they compensate back and forth. We had back & stifles done at the same time. This being said, i shaved a full second off my time 5 days after his back was injected. Vet said injections start to take affect day 3. Ride at home on day 4 to feel how he is with active back injections, before the stifle injections kick in. Day 5 my 5D horse is a 3D horse. 

 

I have done some reading today on giving Osphos to back horses. Might ask about it? 

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JLazyT_perf_horses
Reg. Dec 2010
Posted 2020-05-18 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Back injections



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Liana D - 2020-05-15 4:02 PM


I hope I didn't miss this in the timeline but if she has t had her hocks injected since November she's probably sore in them . 
mid she's that bad (no forward motion) after injection I would make sure she didn't have some laminitis going on from the cortisone.


if you haven't already ran any blood I would want to look at their Ck and ast levels to make sure she's not trying to tie up. 


I would think if laminitis were an issue or even trying to tie up then reluctance to go forward wouldn't be just specifically when someone is on her back. She still has no problem running her paddock like a banshee daily or moving out when lunging. And I have no way to tell if it's just been since being injected, like I said I haven't tried to ride her since Thanksgiving. I just had shoes put on her a couple days ago & farrier didn't notice anything different with her feet. And I asked vet if we should update her hock injections and he said they didn't need done yet. My chiro comes this week for their regular maintence which is good becasue I did notice this weekend she has one hip about 1/2" higher than the other when standing square. I assume it's from her side swiping on the wet grass a couple weeks ago. Which I'm sure is also not helping the issues at hand. I spoke with vet again Friday and we have decided to inject the SI in a couple weeks and see where that leads us. He also wants to block the spot on her back and have me try to ride her before we do that, just to see if there is improvement there. He said the injections only had a 50/50 of working in the first place 

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