My head is spinning. Please feel free to share what you know or experiences you have for any of the below. 

1. HOW do you "work" a bleeder at home if they are on the hotter side and get pretty amped on drill work?  Cut drills totally?   Throw your money in the pot every weekend and just hope on a wish and a prayer lasix solves bleed - induced lack of rate?

2. Can you take a bleeder to a clinic?  If you start the day making a run and then drill all afternoon - would you lasix them before the clinic or never use them for clinics?

3. How many runs (on lasix) do you think it takes for it to "click" in their mind that they can sit down and turn without choking or feeling uncomfortable? 

4. I feel like I need to keep him 1000% away from barrels or anything even resembling a barrel unless he's on lasix so that he has no opportunity to bleed or feel uncomfortable - otherwise i have no idea how he will get his confidence up to make his normal runs. 

i know this is super common. This is just new to me. This horse just got done being very successfully treated for extremely bad bleeding ulcers. So, I'm newly managing two issues.  I feel like I'm riding a horse made of glass.   This horse has never bled out, but he randomly started absolutely blowing through my hands at the 3rd barrel and with my vet's suggestion we believe hes bleeding. He's made 1 run on lasix and it was better. 

We are under close vet advisement but I hate to bug them for every random question.  Thank you! 

First thing, that sucker needs to be in good shape. Like GOOD shape. 

1) How finished is this horse? Does he actually need the drills, or is it more for you? I say that because I have a tendancy to pick on one when they don't need it. If he is honest and you don't have an issue to fix, then to me, the drills are going to get repetitive and boring and you're going to irritate him. If he isn't necessarily finished and does in fact need some drills, then you're going to need to mix it up. Keep him thinking, change your drills, and make him do it correct and relaxed slow, like trotting slow, first. 

2) I don't take my bleeder to clinics. If you desperately want to, then I would reach out and figure out what the clinic is going to entail. If it's lots of slow work and you're worried about your horse getting hot, a little Ace goes a long way. Mine actually runs on a 1/2cc of Ace per her vet to help keep her heart rate down. 

3) In my experience, we've caught it early enough in each horse for mine to realize that it's not terrifying anymore within a couple runs. 

4) Refer to question one. If he doesn't need to see the barrels, then don't push it. For his lungs and his sanity. 

Bleeding is terrifying at first. I totally get it. But you're right, it is super common. If you're worried the whole time you're on him, he's going to worry. Take a breath, let it all out, ride him at home and let it be relaxing. Keep him in as good of shape as you can, and don't give yourself ulcers over worrying!

Thank you! Yes, he's finished. BUT we've been falling apart all summer with ulcers and now this. So - At this point Its going to be donating to the pot 100% until he figures out he finally feels GOOD and puts a run together. Which is OK we don't need to do drills.  The drills were to help fix what was falling apart which i quickly learned was a direct symptom of him not feeling good. 

Like I mentioned, we have made 1 run on lasix and I think I felt him get to the spot he has been panicing and kind of anticipate but then didn't. So hopefully a couple more tries on lasix and he will run like he can. 

It's all just very overwhelming. 

Ditto the previous post. Keeping him in good shape is key.

As for drills, unless it's absolutely needed, I wouldn't push it. From your post, I'm assuming he's finished, so it won't be a problem.

Also, I would say no to the clinics. Unless it's absolutely necessary. If your going to a clinic for you to learn than I would recommend taking another horse.

Finally, I would advise in buying Flair Strips. They open up the airways and help out with bleeders. Not to mention, they come in many fun colors.

Thank you :)

I have been using flair strips off and on but now will use every time.

I do think I had a bad batch but I could barely get one to stay for a single run.  Hoping for better luck my next pack. 

Interesting. Out of the 6 years of using flair strips I've only had that happen once. Are you touching the sticky part too much? Cleaning the area?

I would think about using Katelyn McLeod's method:

https://www.facebook.com/FLAIRStrips/videos/195939811682895/?d=null&vh=e

I never touch the sticky part. I usually crease down the edges a little bit so it lays over his nose nicely.  I put on before he's sweating.  Do I hardcore clean his nose? No, but his nose is clean to look at? 

Honestly from what I'm hearing this is not normal and a potentially bad batch. I hope anyway. I want it to STICK. 

On the Flair strips, if you are having trouble getting them to stay on, get some spray adhesive and put a little tiny bit on the lower two or three tips of the strip.  I spray the adhesive on the edge of the packet the strip comes in and dab it on to make sure I don't coat the whole thing.  It helps to be sure they stay on when it is super humid and the horse is sweating a lot.

I also use the Breathe EZ clips from Big D Web to train in if the horse has breathing issues, about $30 and they last forever.

If you need to do drills and are afraid of bleeding, I really like guanabenz better than ace.  Either one will help keep the blood pressure down and reduce the chances of the horse getting anxious and bleeding as a result.

I also like to use Kentucky Red and injectable magnesium sulfate along with the lasix. Both the mag and red can be used the night before and a few hours before the lasix.  Keeps you from having to give as much lasix and it just works better that way in my experience.

I think ulcers and bleeding go hand in hand and both issues are never really "fixed", they just have to be managed and no two horses are the same.  I really like the new Succeed Vet Formula for gut issues, especially if they don't respond well to omeprazole or quickly relapse after treatment.

One more thing, if you are not subject to drug testing, Clenbuterol is really good for bleeders.  If you don't want to run on it, it is good to give it for 3 days after a run to help open them up and get any mucus or blood cleaned out.

More for my info, what is the correlation between bleeding and ulcers? 

If 10 is extreme he was at a 15. Coliced and the whole thing. GG and sucrulfate for 35 days and scoped 100% clean.  

Hes ona strict management plan for that. But now the bleeding ??

Star, I 100% agree with Barnmom. 

I really believe we have to keep our nervous Nellies as relaxed as poss and I will give meds to do so. Those horses that I don't do that for initially seem to be the ones that haunt me with ulcers then they become bleeders. 

Keep that hindgut in the best shape you can. I don't feed grains and I provide a pre and probiotic to mine-Helps them a lot. I ride hot horses and they all have a hair trigger gas pedal. So, I do what I can to keep them soft and quiet. Riding on the pasture is always a plus over the arena for mine. They don't hardly know we're still getting them trained up. 

I haven't had one in super shape in a few years but in the past my horses that bled where in the best shape of most any horse at the track. Get into some interval training. Aquatred or even swim one that has the body to handle a true swim. 

Feed your horse something that will coat the stomach before you ride. 

Get a good workup by the vet complete with a blood panel that can lead you to see any deficiencies in you feed, mineral, and workout program. Scope your horse to know what might be setting his stomach off. Also, a BAL will help you in treating the bleeding with the correct medications. 

My best to you and your horse. 

Thank you for taking the time to discuss!

My boy just got so complicated the last few weeks.  What do you recommend to coat the stomach pre ride? I have Zesterra and I have Sucrulfate.  I feed him Purina Gastric cookies pre ride and he gets Outlast with his Alfalfa Cubes (soaked) - that's it.  I've never really grained him but now he can kiss it goodbye permanently. 

His maintenance to haul to runs includes GG and Sucrulfate but I would not mind adding a little something pre normal rides at home. 

I worry about overdoing it and compounding issues with his tummy, but maybe you can't with meds like that. 

I have ZERO experience with calming additives. 

And so it doesn't get lost, as a couple of you have mentioned it now - what is the correlation between ulcers and bleeding?  How does one make the other more likely?