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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
 
Location: Ft Collins, CO | Can one try to hard? Or want something to bad? I feel as though the harder I work the worse we (my horse and I) get. Is it just a sign from above to just give up? When does one know when enough is enough? I try so hard paractice and give my horse the best that I can and each time out we are worse!!! Even at home, going for a trail ride, whatever! Sorry I can not sleep, I am probally feeling to sorry for myself. So soon there might be a another horse for sale, looking for someone that can do him justice! |
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 Care for Canines
Posts: 2341
 
Location: Cap't Shakira the Dagger | What is the problem? I've felt like giving up at times and usally it is when things are just about to break loose |
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 Pedigree Expert
Posts: 10090
Location: In the middle of what matters most. SD | I've felt the same way as you and probably will again. I think it is just part of the game. What are you having problems with? |
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Pedigree Expert
Posts: 10090
Location: In the middle of what matters most. SD | The last time that I felt totally hopeless was when me stud and I were having problems and I thought it was all my fault. It turned out he was hurting. I know you have had issues with your horse staying sound, do you think he is hurting? I'm going to go to bed. Hope you can get some rest. You've come to the right place for help!!
Edited by SolidFoundation 2004-04-15 12:54 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1560
| I had 2 fillys that were half sisters & broke them at the same time. The more I rode them the worse they seemed to get. They wouldn't relax, but just got more hyper. And this was just teaching them to lope circles! I had also the same problem with a gelding a few months back before I started breaking them, & another young horse several months before that! I had bought the best saddle, girth, blanket($150.00)(gel-filled) , used a mild side-pull bridle& still they wouldn't relax! I also was at a loss....then by some miracle, I read an artical that said horses ran from pain! Well I analyzed my horses very carefully & it seemed that the saddle might be making them sore. So after researching the (orginal) Bob Marshall saddles, I sold all my saddles & bought a Debra Sibley(model) Bob Marshall saddle. Instantly! Both horses were calm & worked perfectly! I could see the difference immediately! My saddles were hurting my horses! Now when I work them, whether they're in shape or not, they are totally relaxed & work time is cut in half & when we quit, they are happy & so am I! I've rode a sports saddle now for 8 years. But only the orginal Bob Marshall saddle works this way, as I tried the Circle Y sports saddle & my gelding still was hurting. That's why I didn't buy one when they first came out, I didn't know there was a difference. But they are not made the same. This may not be your trouble, but it was mine.... good luck!
Edited by Belinda 2004-04-15 1:49 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
Location: Ft Collins, CO | I just had the vet out, about 1 month ago we injected his hocks and she said that he was the soundess she has ever seen. He is a finished barrel horse has and can run in the top of the 1D. Not latley! When I go out to ride I have a hard time getting him to stay in the trott, so we do lots and lots of circles. Then he relaxes and keeps collected and does real good, then we lope and all he!! brakes lose, he will not stay in the same lead in the hind end, he lunges sometimes trying to buck, and climbs. So we do lots and lots of circles, until he stays in the same lead nice and collected. Then if I try to get him to move over (or go in a straight line) with my leg he does but not without switching hind leads and trowing his head. He also will not stay in the right hind lead going around barrels. So we just trot if we work barrels trying to stay collected. When I tried to lope the other day he now has started diving into the barrles. GRRRRRRRRR!!! I was told to try not "working" him so much and just ride. So I did, then took him to a barrel race and when we tried to go into the gate he lunges real hard and tryes to buck, then we had the worst barrel pattern in my life, the barrels were good if we were pulling a trailer!!! Then I go to try and stop and he just puffs out his chest and runs THREW the gate, he threw the lady running the gate, but thank God she never latched it or it would have been a wreck! I was told to ACE that horse, he is to big to be that out of control!! But at the race before he was an angle! My saddle does not leave dry spots. I have a Cecil Phillips on order jsut waiting. The vet said he is sound, I am trying to get a chiro out there but nothing yet. I ride very consistantly and I give him time off. So I do not know. I am off to try this all again!! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1807
Location: in texas now! | I don't have any advise , just wishing you luck. Don't give up it will get better. |
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 Grammar Queen
Posts: 3140
Location: Georgia | Don't give up! This too shall pass. The chiro will probably be a huge help. It does sound like he's hurting somewhere since this behavior isn't "normal". Get the chiro out and see what he/she says. Relax! I know it's lots easier said than done. Pray! Know we'll all be praying for you and your horse. |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | WHO10 is right!!!
My good horse has left me in so many tears over the years that I can't even begin to dry that bucket up!!!!
I have felt the same way so many times. But you have to ask yourself these questions...... DO YOU BELIEVE IN THIS HORSE? Do you know in your heart that it is there you just have to wait for it? Do you have the patience to wait? If you answered yes to these questions, then DON"T give up..... You might just try other things for awhile ie no barrel practice.... Just ride straight out for a couple of weeks. I know on my horse if I ride too much in the arena then he will start anticipating even loping circles.... We just do lots of outside riding and conditioning with about 1 time a week in the arena. |
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  Color My World
Posts: 4940
Location: My perfect world bubble | I would get a second vet's opnion on your horse being sound. Everything you're describing makes me think he's hurting somewhere, especially if all his behaviors are relatively new. We have to remember, at a vet clinic there's no way a vet can put a horse under the kind of strain hit's under when he's competing. He could be hurting but will never show it on a flex test, x-rays, etc. My vet asks me to bring any video's I have when I'm having a problem, so he can anaylze them and try to see anything that would indicate an area of soreness. Maybe you can try that? JMO, but 98% of the time I think you can relate bad behivior in a solid, honest horse to pain.... good luck with whatever you decide to do. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Don't give up. I once bought an open horse that was the type horse you are describing. He worked awesome the first month I had him, but then we started having trouble with everything. He began shouldering barrels, running by some, and riding at home was awful. He would RUN circles, not lope. He would not even trot controlled circles, heck he wouldn't even walk!!! When I tried to work him at anything faster than a walk it was horrible and my runs showed it! After I eliminated the pain factor with a reliable vet and had his teeth worked on and him chiropracted he still acted the same way so I decided to "fix" him. I pulled out my german martingale and decided to WIN. Bad idea!!! I nearly ruined this horse trying to fix him...he just got worse and worse. He hated me!! I ended up taking a new approach to keep him in shape by either ponying, lunging, or chasing him around the pen on another horse. I quit drilling him on the barrels and when I did I just did a nice controlled walk...RELAXED. I would really exaggerate the errors we were making in our runs. For example, he was shouldering the first barrel so I would greatly exaggerate this pocket...HUGE! If I have a horse that is overrunning barrels I would walk to it and stop at the barrel and count to at least thirty. If the horse doesn't relax then get off and pick his feet out, pet him, whatever. He has got to trust you and enjoy his job. Once the horse relaxes then walk a couple steps around the barrel and stop and settle again. I even lunged my horse at shows to warm him up and the hand walk him. I wouldn't get on him until the girl before me went in. He was aggravated with me and I was with him. When I quit picking on him, he went back to work. I let his and my relationship be that of a business type relationship. I didn't sacrifice any care, but I didn't love on him and try to force myself on him. He was not that type of horse.
Point of this story. Try other things, but don't give up. I went on to run this horse for 10 years. He drew a check at over 90% of the places we went over a ten year period. I went to the CNFR all four years and finished in the top then in the Nation AFTER I figured out how to deal with him where it didn't upset him and me. Sorry this was so long, but I know how frustrated you are! Most of all, pray about it. Challenges are just our way of improving. We learn from them. Good luck and keep us updated. God Bless! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 414
Location: Oklahoma | I really think he is hurting somewhere too...I would try the chiro. My horse was doing the exact same thing. Cross-hitching and would not stay in a lope. Bucked everytime around the first barrel. Just got a nasty attitude all of a sudden. Turns out his right hip was out (I think from a bad hind shoeing). $50 bucks and 1/2 hour and he was so much better. |
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 Expert of all Expert...
Location: Arizona | If you had his hocks injected 1mo ago--what was it that made you think he needed them injected? (behavior, x-rays, etc). Has that been fixed through the injections? What about secondary (often back or hips--but sometimes shoulder/front end) soreness that might have developed from his compensating for sore hocks--sometimes they can over-use other parts of their body as soreness continues to develop & by the time we notice it enough to do something, there are multiple areas that need to be addressed... There have been 2 or 3 posts on here the past week by folks considering or having just injected hocks, and a lot of discussion about associated things--might be worth a look. |
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 Bling Queen
Posts: 8861
Location: No Clue | The answer to all your questions is YES!!!! I do this to myself all the time. Try way too hard and when things don't go "perfect" I try harder. Always looking for something or someway to make everything right. When I realize what I'm doing, I just go back to basics & fun riding. I'd have to agree that seems like he's hurting somewhere. But even if you discover he is hurting, it'll take some time for him to realize it doesn't hurt anymore. I'm going thru this EXACT thing right now. Just trying to stay patient cuz I know he can do it, he's done it before!!! By all means, do not give up!!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 518
Location: Wyoming | Ready to give up? Oh ya been there done that more than once. I feel for ya. I had this POS Baduino that I was trying to run barrels on. It just seemed like the more I tried the worse things got. Of course he was not a 1 d horse, hell I couldn't even get into the 4d on him. I tried and tried. My confidence went down the toilet. I just felt so miserable. I got to thinking that I wasn't any good at the barrel racing thing. Maybe I just didn't have it. I finally got mad enough that I sold him as a 4H horse. They love him by the way and he is happy as a lark because he doesn't have to do anything. LOL. After that I just plum decided that I was never going to barrel race ever again, EVER. I HATED IT!!!! I got my colt real broke as I was going to sell him as a hunter jumper. ( Thats what he looked like and a beautiful mover to boot) I didn't have an arena at the time so I had to come into town to use the arena. Of course the barrels were always set up. I figured that it wouldn't hurt anything to get him patterned. You know just in case.javascript:smilie('48',' ');javascript:smilie('48','');I did this all summer. By fall he was loping the pattern pretty nice so I thought well lets just see what happens. By June of the next year I ran a 14.6 in the coliseum on him and ended up in the 2d. Hello I was hooked again. Last summer I went through another slump and then again last fall after the big guy ducked on second at none other than Reno. He had never done anything like that, EVER!! This year I have decided to just take it a day at a time, my "colt" is coming along just fine and my big horse, who I absolutely love, has kinda made a turn around. I guess what I am trying to say is that I know how you feel. It helps me to take a step back every once in a while and realize its not the end of the world. Read Sheridan's article on the home page. It kinda helped me put things into perspective. Good Luck and don't get to down. Thing will turn around for you.javascript:smilie('50',' ');javascript:smilie('50',''); |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Originally written by beckybelle on 2004-04-15 9:19 AM
I really think he is hurting somewhere too...I would try the chiro. My horse was doing the exact same thing. Cross-hitching and would not stay in a lope. Bucked everytime around the first barrel. Just got a nasty attitude all of a sudden. Turns out his right hip was out (I think from a bad hind shoeing). $50 bucks and 1/2 hour and he was so much better. YUP! Me too, myhorse was on a totally different lead in the back at times, and he was sore on his back,,,,I would go to a chiro too, a way to just "check" for yourself, is take your finger down each side of his back bone, about a inch off the backbone on each side, push firm but not too hard, and go slowly from the withers to the hip and if they give, it maybe a good sign he is needing a adjustment...Just a thought, I hope I explained that good. Good luck, and trust me we have all been there, it sucks, but just wait, good things will come your way! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 630
| Ditto on the vet. I would also analyze how you are riding to see if there is something you are changing that is making the horse panic. Horses learn by consistency. Good luck and keep working, it will all turn out in the end. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
Location: Ft Collins, CO | Thanks for all your support. On the pattern I just started working him on it after the "insident" at the barrel race. As far as his hocks go he was acting this way and so I had my vet look at him he came up sore with flex test so we x-rayed and she called and said yes we do need to inject. I read everyones post about Beduino's and he is a grandson. So I thought maybe that is it. Herbie sounds like me, he does things wrong so I go into major "training" mode and try to "fix" things and they go way south from there. I just got off the phone with a chiro that heartsandhorse recomened, he is going to come out soon, not sure when he is going to call me back. I do love this horse, maybe I do try to "Love" on him to much. The people that trained him are the business type, ride em, work em and put them up! I will try everything. If the chiro comes out and thinks I need a second opinion, I will. Keep you all posted. Thanks for your input!!!!!! |
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Hotrod, definately keep us posted, I would like to know what the chiro says |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I,too, think your vet probably missed something. They are human and we all make mistakes...you are describing pretty classic pain behaviors...all animals have a "fight or flight" response to pain...horses respond with "flight", which is what your horse is doing...trying to run away...when you won't let him, he gets mad at you. I know there's been many times my vet (who is a good vet and tries hard) misses something and tells me my horse is fine; however, I know he still is not acting fine...I take him to an equine specialist (my vet is a general practitioner)and 99% of the time, there IS something wrong. Betty Roper told me once (and she's a 6 time world champion, so I figure she knows what she's talking about)..."Horses don't quit working without a reason...." If you haven't changed anything, I would be willing to bet it's pain related...find out what it is and your problems will be solved. Unfortunately on my horse, it took 5 years and lots of $$$, time, and experiments...and he NEVER limped or refused...just didn't act like he used to. That was the only clue I had...and now that he's well, he DOES act like he used to. JMO |
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