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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
    
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | rachellyn80 - 2013-11-18 12:38 PM Having him castrated will save all of us from seeing his Craigslist ad later on for his $250 stud fee. Just consider the cost as doing your part to reduce the number of unwanted horses going to slaughter.
There are too many people creating little horsie babies that they think look good on paper from conformationally inferior stallions.
I agree-- do your part- same with every dog and cat.  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | I just skimmed these but I'm willing to bet everyone said to cut him. I'd agree with this and add that this is the time of year - right away - to do it with an older horse. His testosterone levels are down and that means it will have the least impact on him. Plus, after a winter of being a gelding, he really WILL be one. Last fall we gelded a 15 year old horse - not that we wanted to - and he'd bred a lot of mares. We waited until early December which is as late as Fall can be around here to cut him. With the exception that we can't pasture him with mares, he's completely a gelding now.
We are stallion shopping and I like your horse's pedigree - based on that I would be interested in him as a stud. But, from your description I'd get over it when I saw his pictures.
An old timer I respect a lot had a phrase for that male that just didn't have "it" to be a stud. He'd say, "He's probably worth more as a gelding." That's what you are thinking about, right?
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 Horsey Gene Carrier
Posts: 1888
Location: LaBelle, Florida | Cut him and finish his training...he will be worth more that way.
I just traded an 8 year old stud who was gorgeous and decent bred for a filly. His new owner gelded him March and he already is acting like a gelding. Once he was healed up a couple months she put him in with some bred mares and they beat the crap out him and removed any ego left.
I just got back from a Patrick Wyse clinic with him and he was every bit a gelding in behavior.
Edited by kasaj2000 2013-11-18 4:47 PM
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | cyount2009 - 2013-11-19 10:56 AM Wow! I am glad you know what I have invested in my horses! First off I had a ton of resources and time invested in that colt. He would make a good colt if someone had the time to ride him every day for 90 days, I however do not. Secondly, the stud is narrow chested but has bone and a TON of athletic ability and speed. He certainly is not just garbage to through away at the sale.
He does sound decent to me. I really want to see him :) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-11-18 12:35 PM
cyount2009 - 2013-11-18 10:38 AM
We just traded a ranch bred bucking 3 year old for a finished cutting stud. Our original plan was to have him gelded right away. He is by no means stud material. When I saw him there was nothing about him that said "this is a stud prospect."
He is 6, has never covered mares, has a decent pedigree, is VERY broke and is very managable. If he looked better I would probably leave him in tact but he is narrow in his chest, stands about 14.2 and has a "bullet" butt. We will be starting him in the box and on the pattern immediately.
We don't keep horses that aren't going to make what we want. There is no reason for me to feed something I know is not going to make a horse for us. My question for all of you who sell a lot of horses, do you think he would market better as an ugly stud with good papers, or as an ugly late cut gelding with good papers? My gut feeling is to have him cut right away but I need to look at it as a business move that will potentially have the most re-sell value.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/theoutlawjoseywales
Looking at what you used to trade for him ... you could not have much money invested in this new horse and from your description of him he is not worth the time to train him in events that do require some speed and physical strength ....
and the cost of gelding him should just about equal what you have in the entire project other than a feed bill ... just take him and dump him at a sale
AND START ALL OVER ...
Wow! I am glad you know what I have invested in my horses! First off I had a ton of resources and time invested in that colt. He would make a good colt if someone had the time to ride him every day for 90 days, I however do not. Secondly, the stud is narrow chested but has bone and a TON of athletic ability and speed. He certainly is not just garbage to through away at the sale. |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| LRQHS - 2013-11-19 11:01 AM
cyount2009 - 2013-11-19 10:56 AM Wow! I am glad you know what I have invested in my horses! First off I had a ton of resources and time invested in that colt. He would make a good colt if someone had the time to ride him every day for 90 days, I however do not. Secondly, the stud is narrow chested but has bone and a TON of athletic ability and speed. He certainly is not just garbage to through away at the sale.
 He does sound decent to me. I really want to see him :)
Thanks LRQH! We like him a lot as far as riding and ability! I will get pictures I promise! I got home in the dark last night and couldn't get them, but I will post some! |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | cyount2009 - 2013-11-19 11:06 AM LRQHS - 2013-11-19 11:01 AM cyount2009 - 2013-11-19 10:56 AM Wow! I am glad you know what I have invested in my horses! First off I had a ton of resources and time invested in that colt. He would make a good colt if someone had the time to ride him every day for 90 days, I however do not. Secondly, the stud is narrow chested but has bone and a TON of athletic ability and speed. He certainly is not just garbage to through away at the sale. He does sound decent to me. I really want to see him :) Thanks LRQH! We like him a lot as far as riding and ability! I will get pictures I promise! I got home in the dark last night and couldn't get them, but I will post some!
I'm waiting patiently..........not really lol.......get me those blasted pictures woman lol..... |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | cyount2009 - 2013-11-18 8:38 AM We just traded a ranch bred bucking 3 year old for a finished cutting stud. Our original plan was to have him gelded right away. He is by no means stud material. When I saw him there was nothing about him that said "this is a stud prospect." He is 6, has never covered mares, has a decent pedigree, is VERY broke and is very managable. If he looked better I would probably leave him in tact but he is narrow in his chest, stands about 14.2 and has a "bullet" butt. We will be starting him in the box and on the pattern immediately. We don't keep horses that aren't going to make what we want. There is no reason for me to feed something I know is not going to make a horse for us. My question for all of you who sell a lot of horses, do you think he would market better as an ugly stud with good papers, or as an ugly late cut gelding with good papers? My gut feeling is to have him cut right away but I need to look at it as a business move that will potentially have the most re-sell value. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/theoutlawjoseywales
I didn't mean to disrespect you or your program. You asked if there's a better market for a stallion or a gelding. DEFINITELY a gelding will sell better. You have a larger group of people looking for a gelding than you do a stallion. Therefore, you are more likely to get your horse sold as a gelding than a stallion.
I have been around and in the horse business for a very long time. Rule #1 It doesn't matter what you spent on a horse or how much riding you have on them. They are only worth what they can do or what they are. Rule #2 They can be worth $10K one day and nothing the next.
If they are not a superstar, if they don't bring something better than the ordinary, if they are like 1354989841654984 other horses, they are not stallion material. IMO |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| OregonBR - 2013-11-19 11:12 AM
cyount2009 - 2013-11-18 8:38 AM We just traded a ranch bred bucking 3 year old for a finished cutting stud. Our original plan was to have him gelded right away. He is by no means stud material. When I saw him there was nothing about him that said "this is a stud prospect." He is 6, has never covered mares, has a decent pedigree, is VERY broke and is very managable. If he looked better I would probably leave him in tact but he is narrow in his chest, stands about 14.2 and has a "bullet" butt. We will be starting him in the box and on the pattern immediately. We don't keep horses that aren't going to make what we want. There is no reason for me to feed something I know is not going to make a horse for us. My question for all of you who sell a lot of horses, do you think he would market better as an ugly stud with good papers, or as an ugly late cut gelding with good papers? My gut feeling is to have him cut right away but I need to look at it as a business move that will potentially have the most re-sell value. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/theoutlawjoseywales
I have been around and in the horse business for a very long time. Rule #1 It doesn't matter what you spent on a horse or how much riding you have on them. They are only worth what they can do or what they are. Rule #2 They can be worth $10K one day and nothing the next.Â
If they are not a superstar, if they don't bring something better than the ordinary, if they are like 1354989841654984 other horses, they are not stallion material.  IMO
That last post wasn't directed toward you... sorry for the miss communication there. LOL! The colt is usable on the ranch, sorts, holds a rope, gathers etc. you just never know when he's gonna get mad and blow a gasket and I just can't ride him through it. The guy we traded however is very handy and capable of handling his silly antics!
I agree that a horse is only worth what it is capable of doing and that a stud should be extraordinary in make and ability, but I am not in the cutting world and didn't know if gelding him would decrease his value to cutters. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | OregonBR - 2013-11-18 1:42 PM
Geld. I geld almost every colt I get. I left one a colt 3 years ago. He's a gelding now as well. They are so much easier to sell.   Like someone already mentioned many people avoid any stallions. They don't want the headache and if he's got poor conformation, do the world a favor and eliminate any possibility he will find his way to somebody that will bred anything to anything because they have a famous relative and end up with something only good for the slaughter pen. 
Amen to this. A bad gelding will bring more money than a good stallion. |
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Expert
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| Let me see if I can attach a picture for LRQHS!
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 Max is Back
Posts: 6795
Location: Flat Rock,IL | cyount2009 - 2013-11-19 7:07 PM
Let me see if I can attach a picture for LRQHS!
You better do it before she gets all this beer sent to her! |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| It took me forever but I finally got them resized! |
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Veteran
Posts: 183
| He's a VERY handsome guy and powerful looking. He will be a stout, good looking gelding. Nice! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | Why don't you like him? He just 'screams ' cutter to me!!! I do agree with gelding him but from a cutting perspective he's nice.
Edited by rockinj 2013-11-20 5:20 AM
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I really like him....knew I would :)......and did somebody say beer???? :) |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I like him too! He will make a nice horse I bet |
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 Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | He is beautiful but DEF GELD HIM!!! Consider it a service to contributing to less horse slaughter..... With so many nice stallions out there NO reason to keep him a stallion! |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| I like him, he's just small! Lol! But he'll do what ever I ask I'm sure! He just not "stud material!" |
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 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | IMO - Leaving him intact is not going to directly contribute to $250 stud fees or horse slaughter.
HOWEVER, based upon the information provided, I don't think he'd be more valuable as a stud--especially as a cutter. I say that because nowhere did you mention earnings, etc.
To be a successful cutting sire, your pedigree and build has to be top notch. The only way to overlook that somewhat is in their competitive performances. At 6, he is too old to compete in the high-dollar competitions (futurities, etc.) that really enable a horse to be a go-to sire. There are sires who stand and do well based upon their pedigree and conformation and don't have show records due to injury. For most of those sires though, they are royally bred and drop dead gorgeous.
I think your horse is a nice looking guy from the pictures. But based on your description and what you consider "flaws", I think he has more value as a gelding. Nothing to take away from him, but more people are in the market for a nice-looking, broke gelding than they are for a non-earning cutting sire with a good pedigree and conformation. To me, he doesn't have all the pieces to make a cutting sire.
Edited by aggiejudger 2013-11-21 12:09 PM
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