Log in to my account Barrel Horse World
Come on in Folks on-line

Today is

You are logged in as a guest. Logon or register an account to access more features.


Running/cow bred horses

Jump to page :
Last activity 2013-12-30 2:38 PM
39 replies, 14867 views

View previous thread :: View next thread
   General Discussion -> Barrel Talk
Refresh
 
Three 4 Luck
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2013-12-29 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Accident Prone


Posts: 22277
50005000500050002000100100252525
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR
GoinJettin - 2013-12-29 10:34 AM Totally depends on the horse.  The one I had listed for sale I got one email from my ad on here for her and some local interest from those who have seen her.  I decided not to sell her anyhow. 

 I don't think it was her breeding that caused a lack of response. I wouldn't have inquired either,  even tho she is something I would be interested in. 
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
hank520
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2013-12-29 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Extreme Veteran


Posts: 411
100100100100
Location: Smack in the middle of WA!
I figured I would give the cow run cross a try. Here is the pedigree of my colt i raised this year. He's only a weanling but super athletic!


http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ag+tom+hardy

And the one that is due in April!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=MISSFO...

I also booked my mare back to Firewater Finale and am thinking that will be a nice cross too!
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
stretch74
Reg. Feb 2012
Posted 2013-12-29 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Member


Posts: 5
0
So many of the cow bred bloodlines are derivatives of running horse influence to term one "cow" and the other "race" is a relative term. While Doc Bar was bred to run, he did not do it very well. However, some of his son's produced good runners. The most significant horse in the AQHA is Three Bars. The second is Leo. At the 2012 NFR, the winning horses in Barrels, Tie Down, Team Roping, and Bull Dogging were all Leo X Three Bars bred horses of some magnitude. Both were race horses themselves. The old timers used to say you could breed the speed out of a horse, but could not breed it back in...but reviewing results of races often disputes that notion. The most significant modern cow bloodlines descend primarily from these two horses and King P234. Kings sire was a race horse. Stockmen have been nicking Thoroughbred stallions on cowy mares for at least 150 years producing both race and stock handling animals. The Wagonner Ranch attempted to purchase Man O War to no doubt nick on Midnight mares. W.T. Wagonner knew what he was trying to do. Bottom line up front is that there is nothing wrong with breeding a cow bred mare to a race horse. It might not work, but breeding race to race fails just as often. A classic racehorse is one which is bred to run beyond a mile. They have a boat load of slow twitch muscle fiber, which is more efficient in the long haul. Sprinters on the other hand, are bred for 8 furlongs or less, and have a higher concentration of fast twitch fiber. Barrel racers most often pay attention to the latter. Jack Brainard, Bob Loomis, and no less than Bill Dorance all appreciated the influence of certain TB's into their breeding programs though none are associated with racing. It provides hybrid vigor into selective breeding programs. My best advice to anyone is to scrutinize your mare and look for stallions which will address her shortfalls and enhance her strengths in terms of phenotype...physical characteristics. After you have a "short list" consider genotype...breeding. Look for nicks that have proven themselves in the past for other breeders. Pay particular attention the to mares "tail" female line and the Maternal grand sires tail female line. In the end, you are at least making an educated guess, which is about all anyone can do anyway. Remember you are breeding for a short race...less than 220yards, with three periods of acceleration and deceleration. Short backs, low hocks, flat shoulders and fast twitch muscle fiber are the characteristics best suited to the event which relies heavily on quickness. Breeding horses is not easy, but it is fun. In the end, with a colt you designed, you won't know if it worked until you know.
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
bobbyjosocks
Reg. Aug 2008
Posted 2013-12-29 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


They Don't Know Me


Posts: 3299
20001000100100252525
Location: Bastrop, TX
Here's my run/cow bred colt. He's coming 2 and is absolutely one of the best built colts I've ever owned. Great mind, big boned and has a run that looks like he's floating above the ground, smooth as glass. Can cover some ground and looks like he's barely moving. His sire was injured as a 2 yr old and never broke to ride. I have high hopes for this boy. Meet George:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/buggintheflitouttame

I have a baby coming out of his moma and this stud in the spring. Cant wait to see this cross.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/drktp


MY mares 4 yr old filly is just starting her barrel training and is doing fantastic. Already making a great kid horse.

Edited by bobbyjosocks 2013-12-29 11:33 AM
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
ndiehl
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2013-12-29 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Can You Hear Me Now?


20001001001001002525
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving
I have one that I can't wait until he is older. If I still have him or if he's sold I still can't wait to see how he rides and does in the arena. He has the nicest trot and can get down and move when he wants too.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=LARAS+...

I also have this yearling I am keeping for myself. She can dig down and move too. I love this type.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=NBS+EB...
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
GoinJettin
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2013-12-29 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Night Watchman


Posts: 5516
5000500
Location: Central Montana
Three 4 Luck - 2013-12-29 9:39 AM
GoinJettin - 2013-12-29 10:34 AM Totally depends on the horse.  The one I had listed for sale I got one email from my ad on here for her and some local interest from those who have seen her.  I decided not to sell her anyhow. 
 I don't think it was her breeding that caused a lack of response. I wouldn't have inquired either,  even tho she is something I would be interested in. 

Thanks for the feedback.  Out of curiosity was it a bad ad?  Bad video? 

I bought a new horse to show this summer, after riding him some going back to her is like putting on my favorite pair of shoes - familiar and comfortable and definitely worth keeping.
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
Three 4 Luck
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2013-12-29 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Accident Prone


Posts: 22277
50005000500050002000100100252525
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR
GoinJettin - 2013-12-29 12:46 PM

Three 4 Luck - 2013-12-29 9:39 AM
GoinJettin - 2013-12-29 10:34 AM Totally depends on the horse.  The one I had listed for sale I got one email from my ad on here for her and some local interest from those who have seen her.  I decided not to sell her anyhow. 
 I don't think it was her breeding that caused a lack of response. I wouldn't have inquired either,  even tho she is something I would be interested in. 

Thanks for the feedback.  Out of curiosity was it a bad ad?  Bad video? 

I bought a new horse to show this summer, after riding him some going back to her is like putting on my favorite pair of shoes - familiar and comfortable and definitely worth keeping.

It was the line at the end about reserving the right not to sell. IMO, that's something best discussed one on one so you can explain yourself better. In the ad the way it was worded, it would make me nervous about dealing with you, as it came across kind of harsh. I don't blame you for changing your mind, but that's what I would be scared of. It's like the ads that say no tire kickers. I don't call because if I don't buy the horse, I'm going to get labeled a tire kicker.
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
dream_chaser
Reg. Jun 2006
Posted 2013-12-29 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Chasin my Dream


Posts: 13651
50005000200010005001002525
Location: Alberta
 I didn't read all the replies so if I'm repeating...sorry!

In my area there are cow, cow/run & run horses winning at the top levels.....overall when you go back far enough in ALL the pedigrees the old lines all where "performance" horses bred to do everything ....

All personal experience and preference I think...
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
Frenchie
Reg. Jan 2006
Posted 2013-12-29 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Extreme Veteran


Posts: 501
500
 This is an easily debatable topic for a lot of reasons.  One of which is what exactly is "cow bred" or "race bred".  Another is that we are now specifically breeding barrel horses where as not so long ago things were done much differently.

Look at Frenchmans Guy, what do we call him?  Cow bred? Theres sure a lot of run built in there too.  Maybe he is a good example of barrel bred horse.

If people don't like cow/run cross or its not marketable somebody should have told Stanley Johnston all those years ago when he brought Docs Jack Frost up here and started a whole line of performers!
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
RodeoRider97
Reg. Oct 2011
Posted 2013-12-29 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Veteran


Posts: 193
100252525
Location: USA
Personally, I LOVE cow horses their so smart and willing to learn but also I' m in favor of running bred horses because I LOVE a free runner (Guess it's just what I'm used to) but also they seem to be quick learners. But it all comes down to that certain horse.
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
wishes4kissez
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2013-12-29 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Expert


Posts: 1261
10001001002525
I just wanted to say I love your mares pedigree!
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
T-Cat
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2013-12-29 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses





100100100252525
Location: MT
Love them!  My gal is Freckles Playboy/Doc O'Lena on the top and Truckle Feature/Rebel Cause on the bottom.

She is the fastest horse I have ever swung a leg over.  I have such high hopes for her in the barrel pen... she is showing a lot of promise with the little time I have had to devote to her.  She is smart, willing, and gritty.  She goes anywhere and every where I ask her to go.   MY SO heads off her.  I just love her!  Wish I could find 10 more just like her. 

 
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
hoofs_in_motion
Reg. Apr 2011
Posted 2013-12-30 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Undercover Amish Mafia Member


Posts: 9992
500020002000500100100100100252525
Location: Kansas
My question is, what stallion to breed her too though? She's two eyed jack/jackie bee and doc bar bred. She is finished on the barrels, and I can rope off her....she work cattle all day and drag calves.

Her pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+silver+jill

She's my favorite horse, so I would be willing to spend a pretty penny on a stallion when I decide to breed her in a few years...a future fortunes stallion preferred
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
CowboyUp!!!
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2013-12-30 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



MEOW!


Posts: 4477
20002000100100100100252525
Location: High heels in the air...
I would cross her on speed...but conformation is a big thing for me...so pick a physically correct one...JMO 
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2013-12-30 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Military family

Champ


Posts: 19623
50005000500020002000500100
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm

I've raised many nice turn/race crosses. 

↑ Top ↓ Bottom
luvrdeo
Reg. Mar 2012
Posted 2013-12-30 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Veteran


Posts: 296
100100252525
I personally love my cow/running bred horse, he's the nicest I've had yet. He lays down and runs hard, but still makes those quick turns - and he's smart. I'd buy a hundred more just like him if I could!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/hickup+man

Edited by luvrdeo 2013-12-30 2:22 PM
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
Prehistoric
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2013-12-30 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Elite Veteran


Posts: 1150
10001002525
Location: LaCygne, KS
stretch74 - 2013-12-29 10:53 AM So many of the cow bred bloodlines are derivatives of running horse influence to term one "cow" and the other "race" is a relative term. While Doc Bar was bred to run, he did not do it very well. However, some of his son's produced good runners. The most significant horse in the AQHA is Three Bars. The second is Leo. At the 2012 NFR, the winning horses in Barrels, Tie Down, Team Roping, and Bull Dogging were all Leo X Three Bars bred horses of some magnitude. Both were race horses themselves. The old timers used to say you could breed the speed out of a horse, but could not breed it back in...but reviewing results of races often disputes that notion. The most significant modern cow bloodlines descend primarily from these two horses and King P234. Kings sire was a race horse. Stockmen have been nicking Thoroughbred stallions on cowy mares for at least 150 years producing both race and stock handling animals. The Wagonner Ranch attempted to purchase Man O War to no doubt nick on Midnight mares. W.T. Wagonner knew what he was trying to do. Bottom line up front is that there is nothing wrong with breeding a cow bred mare to a race horse. It might not work, but breeding race to race fails just as often. A classic racehorse is one which is bred to run beyond a mile. They have a boat load of slow twitch muscle fiber, which is more efficient in the long haul. Sprinters on the other hand, are bred for 8 furlongs or less, and have a higher concentration of fast twitch fiber. Barrel racers most often pay attention to the latter. Jack Brainard, Bob Loomis, and no less than Bill Dorance all appreciated the influence of certain TB's into their breeding programs though none are associated with racing. It provides hybrid vigor into selective breeding programs. My best advice to anyone is to scrutinize your mare and look for stallions which will address her shortfalls and enhance her strengths in terms of phenotype...physical characteristics. After you have a "short list" consider genotype...breeding. Look for nicks that have proven themselves in the past for other breeders. Pay particular attention the to mares "tail" female line and the Maternal grand sires tail female line. In the end, you are at least making an educated guess, which is about all anyone can do anyway. Remember you are breeding for a short race...less than 220yards, with three periods of acceleration and deceleration. Short backs, low hocks, flat shoulders and fast twitch muscle fiber are the characteristics best suited to the event which relies heavily on quickness. Breeding horses is not easy, but it is fun. In the end, with a colt you designed, you won't know if it worked until you know.

This covers it . Well said. JT 
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
Whiteboy
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2013-12-30 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Military family

That's White "Man" to You


Posts: 5515
5000500
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/talents+dark+angel  A fine example of run on top of cow.  I'm just not conviced that it can't work.
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
teehaha
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2013-12-30 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses


Military family

Living on the edge of common sense


Posts: 24138
50005000500050002000200010025
Location: Carpenter, WY
 Have a pair bred like this..a weanling and comming 2 yr old.  Gave the mare a year off but will definitely be breeding her back the same way.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/12+hooker

We actually have 4 more cow/ranch mares bred that I'm pretty excited to see this spring also :)



http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/signature+jeans

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wyo+blue+jeans  (already sold)

 http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/fine+fittin+jeans

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/strait+silver+jeans

 

Edited by teehaha 2013-12-30 2:31 PM
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
Cross D
Reg. Oct 2008
Posted 2013-12-30 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: Running/cow bred horses



Regular


Posts: 74
2525
I don't post often, I am looking forward to getting this guy going:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dancin+for+chex

He has had a late start in life, didn't get broke till he was 4, has never offered to buck at all, this year I broke my ankle in June so he didn't have much done to him. I was on him again in Sept. and he was really starting to lope a nice pattern, seems to pick things up very quickly. I have a grandson of Dash for Cash who has a SI 98 and this guy has kept up with him in the pasture, so I think he could run.
↑ Top ↓ Bottom
Jump to page :
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
 

© Copyright 2002- BarrelHorseWorld.com All rights reserved including digital rights

Support - Contact / Log in to my account


Working Truck World Working Horse World Cargo Trailer World Horse Trailer World Roping Horse World
'
Registered to: Barrel Horse World
(Delete all cookies set by this site)
Running MegaBBS ASP Forum Software
© 2002-2026 PD9 Software