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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1041
 
Location: WET side of Washington | What makes you use red cell for your horse? What advantages does it have and what would make you recommend it? Just wondering :) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| I would like to know this too :) | |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
 
| Because my horse's blood work came back that he was mildly anemic. | |
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 Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | I originally started it because I too had a horses bloodwork come back and he was borderline anemic. I give it to all my horses now twice a week. I would not give it to a horse who is already hot/spooky. Too much can make a horse a bit of a handful. Just took one of my prospects off of it because she suddenly decided the tractor drag in the arena that has always been there was going to eat her one night. That's generally a good sign the horse doesnt need it in their diet! But it is a good all in one multi vitamin.
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Don't use it & wouldn't use it. I don't think the company balanced the nutrients well. Every mineral and vitamin effects another and without the proper ratios you can cause more problems than it fixes. Horses usually get enough iron in their forage, water, feed, supplements, etc. Anemia can be brought on by Parasites, Ulcers(colonic ulcers too), injuries(usually injuries with blood loss), and yes in some cases nutritional problems(rare). Here is one article that explains a little: http://www.internationalhorseracingdigest.com/stories/jd06_4 . One ration that I don't like with it is the Iron:Copper:Zinc. It is recommended to be a 4:1:3 ratio. Red cell is 300mg:36mg:11mg, when it should be 300mg:75mg:225 to be balanced. Iron effects the absorption of Zinc, to much copper can cause zinc deficiencies too, and zinc and copper play a big role in hooves and coats. Some research has suggested that most horses are getting to much iron. I just hope you take in account all the other supplements you may be feeding and measure the levels of each mineral. Selenium levels, calcium to magnesium, calcium to phosphorus, Iron:copper:Zinc manganese. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I use it on one of my horses because he was slightly anemic. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FlyingJT - 2014-03-20 11:34 AM
Don't use it & wouldn't use it. I don't think the company balanced the nutrients well. Every mineral and vitamin effects another and without the proper ratios you can cause more problems than it fixes. Horses usually get enough iron in their forage, water, feed, supplements, etc. Anemia can be brought on by Parasites, Ulcers (colonic ulcers too ), injuries (usually injuries with blood loss ), and yes in some cases nutritional problems (rare ). Here is one article that explains a little: http://www.internationalhorseracingdigest.com/stories/jd06_4 . One ration that I don't like with it is the Iron:Copper:Zinc. It is recommended to be a 4:1:3 ratio. Red cell is 300mg:36mg:11mg, when it should be 300mg:75mg:225 to be balanced. Iron effects the absorption of Zinc, to much copper can cause zinc deficiencies too, and zinc and copper play a big role in hooves and coats. Some research has suggested that most horses are getting to much iron. I just hope you take in account all the other supplements you may be feeding and measure the levels of each mineral. Selenium levels, calcium to magnesium, calcium to phosphorus, Iron:copper:Zinc manganese.
I read the article, and a few things concern me about the reliability of the article, there are no references, the person who has the PhD it doesn't say what her PhD is in she is not a DVMD, as she does not have those credentials. She could be a Dr of anthropology. The other lady has a BA which also does not give her the credentials to speak on nutrition.
They say that one of the symptoms of anemia is yellowing of the eyes, I am not sure about this, but it would have to be end stage as yellowing of the eyes in indicative of liver failure, as the body cannot break down or excrete bilirubin in the body.
The production of red blood cells is equal to the death of the RBC, there are too many variables in the production, and removal of the dead cells to make this blanket statement
Also the last paragraph, I have re read the article and I am not sure what the last paragraph has to do with the article.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-03-20 8:27 PM
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| I like Liquid 747 better. It has a similar amount of iron, but the other vitamins/minerals are better balanced around it. It also has all the amino acids, including lysine, in it. I use it to supplement the unfortified grain I buy in bulk. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| cheryl makofka - 2014-03-20 8:04 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-03-20 11:34 AM
Don't use it & wouldn't use it. I don't think the company balanced the nutrients well. Every mineral and vitamin effects another and without the proper ratios you can cause more problems than it fixes. Horses usually get enough iron in their forage, water, feed, supplements, etc. Anemia can be brought on by Parasites, Ulcers (colonic ulcers too ), injuries (usually injuries with blood loss ), and yes in some cases nutritional problems (rare ). Here is one article that explains a little: http://www.internationalhorseracingdigest.com/stories/jd06_4 . One ration that I don't like with it is the Iron:Copper:Zinc. It is recommended to be a 4:1:3 ratio. Red cell is 300mg:36mg:11mg, when it should be 300mg:75mg:225 to be balanced. Iron effects the absorption of Zinc, to much copper can cause zinc deficiencies too, and zinc and copper play a big role in hooves and coats. Some research has suggested that most horses are getting to much iron. I just hope you take in account all the other supplements you may be feeding and measure the levels of each mineral. Selenium levels, calcium to magnesium, calcium to phosphorus, Iron:copper:Zinc manganese.
I read the article, and a few things concern me about the reliability of the article, there are no references, the person who has the PhD it doesn't say what her PhD is in she is not a DVMD, as she does not have those credentials. She could be a Dr of anthropology. The other lady has a BA which also does not give her the credentials to speak on nutrition.
They say that one of the symptoms of anemia is yellowing of the eyes, I am not sure about this, but it would have to be end stage as yellowing of the eyes in indicative of liver failure, as the body cannot break down or excrete bilirubin in the body.
The production of red blood cells is equal to the death of the RBC, there are too many variables in the production, and removal of the dead cells to make this blanket statement
Also the last paragraph, I have re read the article and I am not sure what the last paragraph has to do with the article.
Here are few more:
http://www.doctorramey.com/anemia/
https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/sects/clinpath/modules/chem/iron.htm (you can skip down to pathophysiology)
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_...
http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/iron.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=nzSLpxLqetUC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq...
Edited by FlyingJT 2014-03-25 3:59 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 185
| I've just been told iron overload is very common and bad for horses. Most get enough or to much iron from there hay/foliage. I stay clean of any supplements/feeds with iron. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| If a horse come up showing anemia from blood work I would look for the cause outside iron deficient. First for inflammation somewhere, then Ulcers, parasites, levels in B12; Cooper; Folic Acid, if they haven't had a coggins done I would get that done, and then if nothing shows I would look into an iron deficiency. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FlyingJT - 2014-03-25 3:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-03-20 8:04 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-03-20 11:34 AM
Don't use it & wouldn't use it. I don't think the company balanced the nutrients well. Every mineral and vitamin effects another and without the proper ratios you can cause more problems than it fixes. Horses usually get enough iron in their forage, water, feed, supplements, etc. Anemia can be brought on by Parasites, Ulcers (colonic ulcers too ), injuries (usually injuries with blood loss ), and yes in some cases nutritional problems (rare ). Here is one article that explains a little: http://www.internationalhorseracingdigest.com/stories/jd06_4 . One ration that I don't like with it is the Iron:Copper:Zinc. It is recommended to be a 4:1:3 ratio. Red cell is 300mg:36mg:11mg, when it should be 300mg:75mg:225 to be balanced. Iron effects the absorption of Zinc, to much copper can cause zinc deficiencies too, and zinc and copper play a big role in hooves and coats. Some research has suggested that most horses are getting to much iron. I just hope you take in account all the other supplements you may be feeding and measure the levels of each mineral. Selenium levels, calcium to magnesium, calcium to phosphorus, Iron:copper:Zinc manganese.
I read the article, and a few things concern me about the reliability of the article, there are no references, the person who has the PhD it doesn't say what her PhD is in she is not a DVMD, as she does not have those credentials. She could be a Dr of anthropology. The other lady has a BA which also does not give her the credentials to speak on nutrition.
They say that one of the symptoms of anemia is yellowing of the eyes, I am not sure about this, but it would have to be end stage as yellowing of the eyes in indicative of liver failure, as the body cannot break down or excrete bilirubin in the body.
The production of red blood cells is equal to the death of the RBC, there are too many variables in the production, and removal of the dead cells to make this blanket statement
Also the last paragraph, I have re read the article and I am not sure what the last paragraph has to do with the article.
Here are few more:
http://www.doctorramey.com/anemia/
https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/sects/clinpath/modules/chem/iron.htm (you can skip down to pathophysiology )
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_...
http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/iron.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=nzSLpxLqetUC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq...
I did read all the articles, and thanks for posting them, but again some of the resources are poor.
The last link you gave was an excerpt from a book, you can't even read the title of the book, nor can you determine the publishing date, the editors, authors, or references. This is what makes a source creditable.
The second from the bottom was a website, it didn't give the authors name or credentials, or who endorsed the website. No references or peer reviews either.
The Merck Manual, the Merck is creditable, but it doesn't give the publication date or the edition, this could be from the first edition published back in the 1950's.
The second from the top didn't give references, but did reference the only thing pertaining to horses, 2007. This article I would be interested in reading, again general information only one study used, no peer reviews, to be a creditable journal article it needs to be peer reviewed and site at least 3 different studies if it is doing a synopsis.
The first one, the author is a vet, that is a better start, but no peer reviews, no references, and no clinical studies.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FlyingJT - 2014-03-25 4:07 PM
If a horse come up showing anemia from blood work I would look for the cause outside iron deficient. First for inflammation somewhere, then Ulcers, parasites, levels in B12; Cooper; Folic Acid, if they haven't had a coggins done I would get that done, and then if nothing shows I would look into an iron deficiency.
I have had horses show up anemic, and not once has my vet ever suggested red cell.
I had a yearling that was off, his hgb was critically low, my horse stayed at the vets for a week, ended up having a kidney infection, once treated his hgb was normal.
I have also had one mare bleed out, vet never did a transfusion nor gave an iron supplement, and she turned around.
I have given red cell to horses that I have bought that were skinny and malnourished. After they started putting weight on, I took them off.
I do analyze resources to ensure they are creditable, I also have thorough discussions with my vet and have him support his rationale with evidence. I encourage all horse owners do the same.
My horses get a good mineral, salt, hay/grass. I try and keep it simple.
If I am hauling and competing then I look at joint support, depending on the horse omeprazole, I try and keep it simple. | |
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| FlyingJT - 2014-03-25 2:34 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-03-20 8:04 PM FlyingJT - 2014-03-20 11:34 AM Don't use it & wouldn't use it. I don't think the company balanced the nutrients well. Every mineral and vitamin effects another and without the proper ratios you can cause more problems than it fixes. Horses usually get enough iron in their forage, water, feed, supplements, etc. Anemia can be brought on by Parasites, Ulcers (colonic ulcers too ), injuries (usually injuries with blood loss ), and yes in some cases nutritional problems (rare ). Here is one article that explains a little: http://www.internationalhorseracingdigest.com/stories/jd06_4 . One ration that I don't like with it is the Iron:Copper:Zinc. It is recommended to be a 4:1:3 ratio. Red cell is 300mg:36mg:11mg, when it should be 300mg:75mg:225 to be balanced. Iron effects the absorption of Zinc, to much copper can cause zinc deficiencies too, and zinc and copper play a big role in hooves and coats. Some research has suggested that most horses are getting to much iron. I just hope you take in account all the other supplements you may be feeding and measure the levels of each mineral. Selenium levels, calcium to magnesium, calcium to phosphorus, Iron:copper:Zinc manganese. I read the article, and a few things concern me about the reliability of the article, there are no references, the person who has the PhD it doesn't say what her PhD is in she is not a DVMD, as she does not have those credentials. She could be a Dr of anthropology. The other lady has a BA which also does not give her the credentials to speak on nutrition. They say that one of the symptoms of anemia is yellowing of the eyes, I am not sure about this, but it would have to be end stage as yellowing of the eyes in indicative of liver failure, as the body cannot break down or excrete bilirubin in the body. The production of red blood cells is equal to the death of the RBC, there are too many variables in the production, and removal of the dead cells to make this blanket statement Also the last paragraph, I have re read the article and I am not sure what the last paragraph has to do with the article. Here are few more: http://www.doctorramey.com/anemia/ https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/sects/clinpath/modules/chem/iron.htm... (you can skip down to pathophysiology ) http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_... http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/iron.html http://books.google.com/books?id=nzSLpxLqetUC&pg=PA120&lpg=... ~~ Your zinc is off. It's 110mg. So zinc and copper are balanced. On average only 5% of Iron in commercial supplements are absorbed (5-20% depending on brand ). I feed Red Cell every spring for a month, puts a spring in their step: ) Edited by Kaye 2014-03-25 9:24 PM
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Member
Posts: 22
| I love it! I feed 3oz in the morning and 3oz at night to all of my horses in he barn. Along with it I feed 3oz of Healthy Coat both morning and night. Yes they do get hot on it but I know they feel good, I like to feed it a week straight and then skip a week. Their coat stays good, and they have stamina... | |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I used it when blood tests showed anemic. After he recovered, I took him off of it. | |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | jenagarwood - 2014-03-20 8:55 PM I like Liquid 747 better. It has a similar amount of iron, but the other vitamins/minerals are better balanced around it. It also has all the amino acids, including lysine, in it. I use it to supplement the unfortified grain I buy in bulk.
I love 747. I get oats in bulk from my brother the Super Farmer and add the 747. Its cheap and easily accessible for me. | |
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