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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
   
Location: Pacific Northwest | So I just got into an argument with my dad. He has a 19 year old gelding who I take care of, because I just take care of all the horses. He no longer rides, so the gelding basically just sits except sometimes I ride him. Currently he just gets a very small amount of beet pulp so I can add his Horse Guard multivitamin to it, and then grass hay. He's almost overweight on this diet since he barely gets ridden.
He has a sensitive digestive system and basically everything except that combination gives him diarrhea (he's been to the vet, they're pretty sure he has hindgut ulcers so he's on EquiShure and it helps). My dad is CONVINCED he needs a complete feed or alfalfa for "protein", and he's been throwing him half a flake of alfalfa when he does his chores with the cows and now the horse has screaming diarrhea AGAIN.
So is there some type of like mineral block or something that I can add to make my dad happy. This horse is the easiest keeper ever, ALL he needs is grass hay but my dad and I have this argument like once a month. No matter how much I explain to him the horse cannot have grain or alfalfa my dad doesn't listen so I told him he can hose the horse's back legs and tail every day in the freezing cold/pouring rain if he wants to feed him that.
ETA he used to be on Equine Senior but when I was trying to make the diarrhea stop I thought having him on the most basic feed possible would be best, so I took him off of it. With the tiny amount of beet pulp (1/2 cup, then I soak it so it likes maybe a little over a cup total), Horse Guard, EquiShure and grass hay his poop stays normal UNLESS he gets fed something different and it upsets his system. So I would really, really like to stay away from all grain if at all possible.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2014-12-27 12:49 PM
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
 
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I would put him on the alfalfa and add a pre- biotic and pro-biotic. The alfalfa keeps the acid down which is creating the ulcers. Alfalfa pellets mixed in the beet pulp could help by giving a cup full daily without getting that overload in his system. There are protein licks available.i feel you as my mare had the squirts all the time until the prebiotic/pro-biotic and feed available at all times. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I second the probiotics
This will help solidify the diarrhea |
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I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | He has already been on them. He was on Probios and then an Rx strength probiotic. He doesn't have diarrhea if he doesn't eat alfalfa so I dont see the point in forcing that into his diet when 1) he doesn't need it, none of our horses get alfalfa except for a little bit of alfalfa pellets, and 2) it CAUSES a problem that I then have to supplement in order to fix. Also I'm not sure if alfalfa helps with hing gut ulcers. I know it does with gastric.
He was on the rx probiotic from the vet and it only helped a little bit, and at that time he was getting a mix of beet pulp and alfalfa pellets like my other horses do, and the same amount. Once I eliminated the alfalfa pellets and reduced the beet pulp it basically went away. He hasn't been on the probiotic for a long time and I started him on the EquiShure as more of a precaution, and I knew someone was feeding him alfalfa again because his poop is runnier than a cow pie and it's literally caked to his back legs and in his tail every single day.
ETA just to add he's had two fecal counts done and he doesn't have any worms, and his teeth are always up to date. They tested his stool for blood and it was positive and he showed more symptoms for hindgut ulcers than for gastric. I treated him with UlcerCureOTC just in case he maybe had both but it didn't make a difference until I changed his feed.
This is EquiShure:
http://www.kerx.com/products/EquiShure/
I tried him on FastTrack with no results, I would try FORCO if I could get it.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2014-12-27 2:02 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1280
Location: Texas | if it ain't broke, don't fix it. No alfalfa IMO |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Have you tried soybean meal? My sister fed this to her stud horse instead of alfalfa and he looked good. We were told it was a good quality protein/amino acid supplement. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Some horses need probiotics daily for life. As if a horses stress level changes (temp, farrier, feed, etc) can change the ph in the hind gut causing diarrhea and exacerbate hind gut ulcers.
It sounds like you already have your mind set on what is right, so not sure why you posted.
Also if the horses fecal has tested positive for blood I would have the horse on omeprazole treatment dose till there was no blood. The horse would also be on probiotics and a high fat diet.
Personally I don't have my ulcer prone horses on alfalfa till cleared as the alfalfa is highly fermentable and can cause a shift in ph in the hind gut exacerbating the ulcers
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-12-27 6:20 PM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | cheryl she posted to ask this..
So is there some type of like mineral block or something that I can add to make my dad happy.
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Regular
Posts: 72
Location: Cheyenne, WY | I had to add a higher protein feed to my older mares diet. I didn't want a sweet feet and found ADM Junior Glo worked great! I also use Forco and Essure Plus. The Essure and Forco are vital for my horse that had colic surgery with a partial bowel resection. He is also prone to ulcers. If you miss either supplement he is noticeably uncomfortable. Hope this helps. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Maybe you could get an Equilix tub? I have an elderly gelding that is prone to runny poo and that tub does not seem to bother his tummy. Mine is not an easy keeper though so I don't know if it would make your Dads horse gain weight.
If you do get one of the Equilix tubs be sure and keep it out of the weather, mine got nasty even if I kept the water dumped out of it. They do much better if kept under a covered area.
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I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | Bibliafarm - 2014-12-27 4:26 PM
cheryl she posted to ask this..
So is there some type of like mineral block or something that I can add to make my dad happy.
That's exactly why I posted, I just added the back story so people knew I knew why the horse had a sensitive digestive system. I don't have "my mind set on what is right", the horse clearly gets diarrhea when he's on alfalfa and processed grains, but my dad is convinced he "needs" those things. But I was thinking if I added a supplement that wouldn't upset his digestive system, but I've never had to look for a protein supplement.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2014-12-29 12:53 PM
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I don't think a mineral block will help him with the poopies. Can you put him on FORCO? Maybe order a bucket and see. It's affordable and lasts a long time.
I put my 10 year old broodie on FORCO because she would look at something wrong and get the poops. Her diet is always the same too. She will still get the poops, but not NEARLY as often. She has a very sensitive belly. |
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I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | tracies - 2014-12-27 12:24 PM
if it ain't broke, don't fix it. No alfalfa IMO
Well that's my thought too, but my dad wants to feed it because he says he needs more protein...so I'm trying to find another protein source that would hopefully not upset his stomach, because I hate having to hose his back legs and tail out when its cold and rainy. It's not fun for either of us. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Murphy - 2014-12-29 1:56 PM I don't think a mineral block will help him with the poopies. Can you put him on FORCO? Maybe order a bucket and see. It's affordable and lasts a long time.
I put my 10 year old broodie on FORCO because she would look at something wrong and get the poops. Her diet is always the same too. She will still get the poops, but not NEARLY as often. She has a very sensitive belly.
she doesnt want it to help with that. she wants it to help her daddys issues.she knows why horse has issues.. but to satisfy her dad shes asking for other alternatives. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Bibliafarm - 2014-12-29 2:04 PM Murphy - 2014-12-29 1:56 PM I don't think a mineral block will help him with the poopies. Can you put him on FORCO? Maybe order a bucket and see. It's affordable and lasts a long time.
I put my 10 year old broodie on FORCO because she would look at something wrong and get the poops. Her diet is always the same too. She will still get the poops, but not NEARLY as often. She has a very sensitive belly. she doesnt want it to help with that. she wants it to help her daddys issues.she knows why horse has issues.. but to satisfy her dad shes asking for other alternatives.
Sorry, must have misread.
Disregard my post. |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| livexlovexrodeo - 2014-12-30 10:56 AM
tracies - 2014-12-27 12:24 PM
if it ain't broke, don't fix it. No alfalfa IMO
Well that's my thought too, but my dad wants to feed it because he says he needs more protein...so I'm trying to find another protein source that would hopefully not upset his stomach, because I hate having to hose his back legs and tail out when its cold and rainy. It's not fun for either of us.
Orchard grass is the closest to alfalfa |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| livexlovexrodeo - 2014-12-29 12:56 PM
tracies - 2014-12-27 12:24 PM
if it ain't broke, don't fix it. No alfalfa IMO
Well that's my thought too, but my dad wants to feed it because he says he needs more protein...so I'm trying to find another protein source that would hopefully not upset his stomach, because I hate having to hose his back legs and tail out when its cold and rainy. It's not fun for either of us.
Why does he think he needs more protein? Mature horses don't require near what we think they should have. Carbohydrates and fats are easier for them to metabolize and yield more energy than protein. Protein is more beneficial in winter because it produces more heat than fat and carbs but if the horse is being used everyday it can cause excessive heat. It's a balancing act for sure.
If you are determined to up his protein you should look into soybean meal, it averages out at about 44% crude protein and is the most balanced source of protein. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | This is a great example of the fact that "We feed horses into trouble and try to supplement them out". First, your dad may just need to own a different horse. I don't mean to put this the wrong way, but some horses just need to be with someone who understands special needs. Unless your hay is very poor, your dad's horse should not need additional protein. The total need for a mature horse is around 10% protein in the total program. He may well benefit from a product like FORCO to improve hind gut function. Stick with a prebiotic over a probiotic. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Id just tell daddy hes getting enough Protein and tell him vet said NO alfalfa.stick a mineral block out and tell him it has Protein in it. |
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