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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
  
Location: MD | astreakinchic - 2015-05-01 11:10 AM
*Sigh* I would hope everyone on a barrel racing site would know that when we refer to collection we absolutely mean that the horse is rounded and up underneath themselves. Collection is definitely not just about giving to the bit. But everyone was probably referencing the OP's questions about breaking at the poll.
I don't know why anyone would think that everyone would know the true definition of collection. Two minutes spent observing the warmup pen at a barrel race is enough to prove that only about 1% know what it means to have a horse properly engaged and "through". |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
 
| WrapSnap - 2015-05-01 1:29 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-05-01 11:10 AM
*Sigh* I would hope everyone on a barrel racing site would know that when we refer to collection we absolutely mean that the horse is rounded and up underneath themselves. Collection is definitely not just about giving to the bit. But everyone was probably referencing the OP's questions about breaking at the poll.
I don't know why anyone would think that everyone would know the true definition of collection. Two minutes spent observing the warmup pen at a barrel race is enough to prove that only about 1% know what it means to have a horse properly engaged and "through".
^^^^^^touche LOL touche 
I just felt the comments were directed at me. I feel like some ppl have no idea of how to make a horse work or get one light and using its self.
I try and give simple and short answers ppl can understand and use, no its not an end all be all definition but the OP was talking about them not giving their head/face (I always refer to it as face not head) so I tried to give info to help. But yes everyone that said horses need to be engaged, in frame, and up under themselves is absolutely correct. On the headset yes actually all horses will carry their heads at different levels naturally but when you ask them to break at the poll they should give their face, not be a giraffe and flip u the bird, to clarify my point.  |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| WrapSnap - 2015-05-01 12:29 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-05-01 11:10 AM
*Sigh* I would hope everyone on a barrel racing site would know that when we refer to collection we absolutely mean that the horse is rounded and up underneath themselves. Collection is definitely not just about giving to the bit. But everyone was probably referencing the OP's questions about breaking at the poll.
I don't know why anyone would think that everyone would know the true definition of collection. Two minutes spent observing the warmup pen at a barrel race is enough to prove that only about 1% know what it means to have a horse properly engaged and "through".
I am sure people would say this about me because I don't generally ask for a lot of flexion and collection when I warm up, and I also have a very nicely broke horse that throws their head ALOT when I warm up at an event  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Well thanks for all the different opinions ! The 5 yr old will round her back & engage her hind end . She actually "collects ".. But she is also a lot more normal & teachable than the 8 yr old . She set in her ways & thst consists of flipping her head when she gets the least bit worked up. She will not collect up . You can get get to give her face at a lope but she's just running around on her front end .. She will collect for very short intervals . She's very hard to push up under herself , she will do anything to not use her hind end . She is 100% sound & healthy as well . She's just been unbroke sense 3 yrs old , I bought her at 6 . Running the pattern , completely unbroke . So who's the dumb one :) I've been trying to get her broke , but she's hot & full of bad habits . I can't get the hip swinging out of her . Getting very frustrating .. But that what I get for buying her in the first place ! |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | MeepMeep - 2015-05-01 2:59 PM
WrapSnap - 2015-05-01 12:29 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-05-01 11:10 AM
*Sigh* I would hope everyone on a barrel racing site would know that when we refer to collection we absolutely mean that the horse is rounded and up underneath themselves. Collection is definitely not just about giving to the bit. But everyone was probably referencing the OP's questions about breaking at the poll.
I don't know why anyone would think that everyone would know the true definition of collection. Two minutes spent observing the warmup pen at a barrel race is enough to prove that only about 1% know what it means to have a horse properly engaged and "through".
I am sure people would say this about me because I don't generally ask for a lot of flexion and collection when I warm up, and I also have a very nicely broke horse that throws their head ALOT when I warm up at an event
Actually, most people say it about me, as I rarely ride one on the vertical. You can bet your bippy that they are engaged, withers and shoulders lifted, full of impulsion and can dang sure be asked to come onto the vertical with a wiggle of your pinky finer. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Fancy Lass - 2015-04-29 6:59 PM I wanted to get opinions on this . I'm always looking to improve my two horses foundation . I ride about 3/4 days a week . When I ride I work on moving body parts , collection , bending etc. I make them stay soft in the face a lot .. Kind of like dressage horses .. I like them to ride like that. Don't get me wrong , I'll let them walk on a loose rein here & there . One mare I have one mare, 5 yrs old . I bought her almost a year ago with no foundation at all . When I lope circles she naturally wants to be extremely high headed .. I hate it , it's just overly high .. So I always make her bring it down & break at the poll. So basically I'm asking everyone's opinions on this subject . Sometimes I feel bad making them ride around broke all the time lol but if I let them slip out of it much at all , things seem to fall apart pretty quickly . you have a 5 yr old with no foundation and you are "making" her bring her head down and break at poll..First breaking at poll isnt collection.
shes 5 with no foundation therefore no strength to carry herself .
you need the strength to carry herself to be collected to make it easy for her and to be light in bridle and break at poll easily.. Head set is Not a correct way. Id much rather allow them to have their head anywhere at that age and properly LEARN to carry theirself over time and develop the strength.. TO MAKE them carry their head is only going to make her sore.. a natural collection should be from their body not head and will not make one sore. ifs she's high headed she is weak.. its difficult for her to transfer her weight to hind.. you need to reevaulate your training program to work on that. Id make sure there isnt pain . I would also learn to Longline her. It does wonders for their back and helps them figure it out without the rider in the way and it will take time but you cant "make " them carry theirself, it can be forced yes.. but then you end up with all sorts of issues..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-05-02 8:41 AM
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
I started to answer your question in detail, but I feel like we are beating a dead horse on this collection thing. I will tell you that "Yes" I do keep my horses in a collected frame 80% of the time when I ride. Collection is pilates for horses...
Here is a good explanation on collection vs breaking at the poll and how they are used together.
Please remember that it helps so much to ride a horse that can collect properly so that you understand the "feel" you are looking for. At our clinics, I put everyone on my horses so they have an opportunity to feel what it is we are trying to accomplish. Actually feeling it is the best tool by far.
Good luck!
http://www.ridingart.com/balance.htm
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