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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
 
| I've been recently researching supplements and the performance pastes. Do you think they really work? Are there 1D horses out there running on pure talent simple feed and a simple horse mineral? Anyway the cost of these supplements and performance pastes! They add $2+ to the daily feed bill, is that worth it? And then the performance pastes at about $20 a tube, that's like adding $20 to a $50 entry fee, is that worth it? What do you all think, are these companies cashing in on our love for horses and desire to do well, or do we really need to be paying the price for supplements to compete in today's competition?
My apologies I'm having a pity party. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | I do believe that supplements are beneficial. I have seen horses that do better once they have started using Animal Element products than they did before any supplements. But it does depend on the horse abd it's God given talent. you are not going to turn a 4d horse into a 1D horse by adding supplements. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | I think it all comes down to competition. We spend the money on these things because we want the best for our horses and want them to perform the best. Sure a lot of it is marketing, but you just have to be practical and find what works for both your horse and your budget. It all comes down to how bad you want to win. Not saying you can't win just because you didn't give your horse that something something your competition used, if giving nothing is what works then good deal. But if a supplement or performance paste gives your horse that edge and you can tell a difference than you better fork out the money because plenty of others are. I bet 98% of good 1D horses are on something. And if they aren't the rest of us are wondering what they would do if they were.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FLITASTIC - 2015-07-22 10:44 AM
I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$.
I honestly don't think one can compare horses of 60, 70, 80's to today's.
The reasons being
More rodeos
More miles
Aluminum trailers more vibration (more acute issues are showing up due to this as per one respected vet is saying)
Also the breeding we have specialized the breed for barrels, they are running faster and turning harder then they used to.
If a horse gets sore, or stocks up more people are drugging ace, dex, bute, etc to get more runs.
To the op
There are a ton of supplements, horses like people certain supplements will work for one and not for others.
Most joint supplements are similar, you need to do your research and see what result you want, how you will see the result, what components will have a positive result and what are the side effects.
For example
I want a preventative supplement that will eradicate inflammation, prevent windpuffs.
Components that would reduce inflammation
Bute cox inhibitor
Banamine cox inhibitor
Hylauronic acid prostaglandin inhibitor
Lubrysin comportment HA
Formula 1 noni blue label contains HA
I went with Lubrysin as I have to give less
What I seen with it was legs cleaner, no windpuffs, no signs of inflammation so it does what I want
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Buy the very best forage you can find, a mineral to complement it and an awesome farrier, if you don't have those three things you are wasting your money on all the other stuff. Easier said than done I know, especially the farrier part, lol. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | You just have to decide what you feel works and what is in your budget! I don't think there is a *magic* performance supplement. Be realistic about what is working (not just in your head) and what is not. I've tried a lot, but only keep a couple on hand.
Edited by linds 2015-07-22 2:14 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 12:12 PM
FLITASTIC - 2015-07-22 10:44 AM
I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$.
Aluminum trailers more vibration (more acute issues are showing up due to this as per one respected vet is saying )
No pun intended
but
Horse Hockey
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | I think some of the every day preventative/support/maintenance/treatment supplemente have their place. I attribute a good bit of my 13 year old geldings low maintennace to the quality of THE supplements. Good support supplements definitely don't hurt I don't think.
I don't think the pre-performance pastes are all they're made out to be. I think they're made to be more than they are. A few electrolytes and probiotics aren't going to be the difference between amazing and mediocre runs. Not in my opinion. I do think when you see people using actual DRUGS pre performance, then yes, that is making a difference. Obviously a legit drug will make a difference. But I don't think the $20-60 tube of paste is going to make or break your weekend. Just my opinion.
I think nutrition does make a difference. But not 2 hours before a run. :) | |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Barnmom - 2015-07-22 1:56 PM Buy the very best forage you can find, a mineral to complement it and an awesome farrier, if you don't have those three things you are wasting your money on all the other stuff. Easier said than done I know, especially the farrier part, lol.
Couldn't agree more with Barnmom!  | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| arion - 2015-07-22 2:20 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 12:12 PM
FLITASTIC - 2015-07-22 10:44 AM
I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$.
Aluminum trailers more vibration (more acute issues are showing up due to this as per one respected vet is saying )
No pun intended
but
Horse Hockey
I don't understand what your comment horse hockey is supposed to mean.
But think about how trailers were made in the past and now how they are made.
We all know aluminum horse shoes vibrate more then steel.
Now majority of aluminum horse trailers have a solid aluminum floor, versus the steel ones who still have wood, rumber, plastic, all these floors have some give in them so will absorb a bit of the shock, where as the aluminum floor doesn't have any give, and nowhere to flex.
Knowing the mechanics of the material, I can see why more issues are showing up today due to trailer hauling. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 3:34 PM arion - 2015-07-22 2:20 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 12:12 PM FLITASTIC - 2015-07-22 10:44 AM I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$. Aluminum trailers more vibration (more acute issues are showing up due to this as per one respected vet is saying ) No pun intended but Horse Hockey I don't understand what your comment horse hockey is supposed to mean. But think about how trailers were made in the past and now how they are made. We all know aluminum horse shoes vibrate more then steel. Now majority of aluminum horse trailers have a solid aluminum floor, versus the steel ones who still have wood, rumber, plastic, all these floors have some give in them so will absorb a bit of the shock, where as the aluminum floor doesn't have any give, and nowhere to flex. Knowing the mechanics of the material, I can see why more issues are showing up today due to trailer hauling.
What about Soft Ride boots, WERM flooring, and Air Ride hitches?? | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| linds - 2015-07-22 4:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 3:34 PM arion - 2015-07-22 2:20 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 12:12 PM FLITASTIC - 2015-07-22 10:44 AM I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$. Aluminum trailers more vibration (more acute issues are showing up due to this as per one respected vet is saying ) No pun intended but Horse Hockey I don't understand what your comment horse hockey is supposed to mean. But think about how trailers were made in the past and now how they are made. We all know aluminum horse shoes vibrate more then steel. Now majority of aluminum horse trailers have a solid aluminum floor, versus the steel ones who still have wood, rumber, plastic, all these floors have some give in them so will absorb a bit of the shock, where as the aluminum floor doesn't have any give, and nowhere to flex. Knowing the mechanics of the material, I can see why more issues are showing up today due to trailer hauling.
Definitely all the things you mention will reduce the vibration, but as we know not everyone has any of the above. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Start with good nutrition, good farrier. I feed alfalfa and ration balancer to all 6 of mine varying in age and job. No feed supplements. I have a 1/2 D horse that I give adequan as preventative and he runs on lasix. I also give adequan to my other barrel horses even though they are only started. No injuries,or issues but as preventative.
I think the biggest differences in horses today and those of yesteryear are 1)breeding practices 2)the way babies are raised ie instead of running around on pasture and developing bone, muscle, and feet we stick them in a stall or tiny paddock to prevent scratches or injuries thus impeding the development of aforementioned 3) starting them too early and 4) not resting them enough or giving them breaks from arena. Some people literally push them til they break. | |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
I have been using a paste from Oxygen and I promise you it's like night and day. Do I believe in all performance products? Heck no. But results don't lie. | |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I think too many people worry about supplements than more important things. If a horse is sore, has a bad fitting saddle, a bad farrier, bad teeth, etc, no matter what supplement you feed it, it's still probably not going to run to the best of its abilities. My horses are on a very basic feed program and they look great. None of them are hard keepers and they have shiny coats, bright eyes and a good energy level. So whenever I run into a problem I don't start looking at supplements, I ask myself if I think they're sore, does it seem like its a joint problem or do they need massaged, maybe they need some time off, maybe I know in the back of my mind I DON'T have them in as good of shape as they should be, maybe I'm riding like crap, etc etc.
I USED to be obsessed with supplements and wanted my horses on everything for every problem. Now everyone just gets Horse Guard multivitamin and I think really hard about whether or not a supplement is going to fix a problem. My one mare is the only horse I have on multiple things: Tight Joints Plus, SmartGut Ultra (she has been on it for over a year, and since being on it she no longer needs to be treated for ulcers and never goes off her feed), and E-Se-Mag by MVP, because when I bought her I was told she NEEDED a Selenium supplement and I decided to not find out what happens if she's not on one.
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Blessed 
Location: Here | arion - 2015-07-22 2:20 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-07-22 12:12 PM FLITASTIC - 2015-07-22 10:44 AM I think a lot of it is what we psychologists call " Hindsight Bias" . If you believe something will work, and want it to work, it probably will! Thats why the FDA requires such strict " DOuble BLind" testing. Most companies wont do it because it costs millions to accomplish and that would have to be passed on to the consumer so the price point would be so high most wouldnt buy it anyway. My mom went to the NFR in the 60's. 70's, 80's. This was WAYYYYY before adequan, legend, all the millions of supplements out there. And her horses ran the same times as the tough horses do today. And in REALITY, those horses back in the day lasted LONGER than they do today. lol SO there are good ones out there to target a specific condition, but I think its more about the bottom $$$$$. Aluminum trailers more vibration (more acute issues are showing up due to this as per one respected vet is saying ) No pun intended but Horse Hockey
I was just fixing to say the same thing. Aluminium reduces vibration | |
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