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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1159
  
Location: alabama | Is this mold or the yeast they talk about
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| they do have yeast, but i had a lot of problems with mold. had to stop using they kept telling me it was my fault. i kept it inside and fed it with in a week.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1159
Location: alabama | Well dang I can't figure out how to get my pic smaller!! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| the problems i have had with chaffhaye once you open bale it will start to get hot and mold i have called them several times on this and this happenend i have called them then they get a dealer to call me and tell me that i dont how to handle the hay. it is fine most of time but once you open the bale it has white stuff that is the yeast, that will not smell musty and a lot of times gets hot. the people who own the company will get a rep to call you. i bought this product at two different places and had the same thing happen. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1159
Location: alabama | daisycake123 - 2015-12-22 5:07 PM
the problems i have had with chaffhaye once you open bale it will start to get hot and mold i have called them several times on this and this happenend i have called them then they get a dealer to call me and tell me that i dont how to handle the hay. it is fine most of time but once you open the bale it has white stuff that is the yeast, that will not smell musty and a lot of times gets hot. the people who own the company will get a rep to call you. i bought this product at two different places and had the same thing happen.
i just opened it and its a lot of white and smells sour(is that the yeast)? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | All the chaffhaye I ever seen {never used it} the dealer at the feed stores that carry it open a bag to show me the hay and it was always moist did have a kind of sour smell to it but they told me this was the way it was suppose to smell, but I never noticed the white stuff that you are talking about. This would worry me, call the person that you bought it from and tell them, how old is the bag, does it have a date on it when it was bagged? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1159
Location: alabama | Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-22 5:35 PM
All the chaffhaye I ever seen {never used it} the dealer at the feed stores that carry it open a bag to show me the hay and it was always moist did have a kind of sour smell to it but they told me this was the way it was suppose to smell, but I never noticed the white stuff that you are talking about. This would worry me, call the person that you bought it from and tell them, how old is the bag, does it have a date on it when it was bagged?
he told me it would have white stuff but its ALOT, and the horses wouldn't touch it, like stuck their lip up at it!! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | smcmil - 2015-12-22 6:38 PM Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-22 5:35 PM All the chaffhaye I ever seen {never used it} the dealer at the feed stores that carry it open a bag to show me the hay and it was always moist did have a kind of sour smell to it but they told me this was the way it was suppose to smell, but I never noticed the white stuff that you are talking about. This would worry me, call the person that you bought it from and tell them, how old is the bag, does it have a date on it when it was bagged? he told me it would have white stuff but its ALOT, and the horses wouldn't touch it, like stuck their lip up at it!!
I would go back to where you bought it from and have them open another bag and see if it has all the white to it, if I remember tomorrow I will see who sells it here in town and go buy one myself and see what it looks like, I can feed it to my goats. But that kinda sounds not right what you have.. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Google Chaffhaye and theres good info on there, I found it its Chaffhaye pasture in a bag, I also have a number that you can call 915 964 2406 for questions, I went to the General FAQS and lots of good info there, its shows a picture of an open bag with the yeast. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | If it is white, it's ok. The easy way to tell if it is mold, feel it. If it is slimey, then it's bad. If just moist it is good. Again the white is fine, but feel it for sure. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I was reading up on it and it said if the hay is spoiled it will have a nasty rotton smell to it. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| when it goes bad also it gets hot and smells nasty. when you open the bag it kinds smells like silage, but if it goes bad it will get hot like hay baled too soon and will get hot the mold will be dark, i just thru out a hunk in back of feed roon that was bad. it happened even in the fall. probably this time of year would not do this. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Yeast and mold are both fungal organisms. FYI, they can both make hay slimy, and I would not really want to feed either to my horse from contaminated hay.
If they are not eating it I would take it back. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | barrelracr131 - 2015-12-23 6:32 AM
Yeast and mold are both fungal organisms. FYI, they can both make hay slimy, and I would not really want to feed either to my horse from contaminated hay.
If they are not eating it I would take it back.
I have fed quite a bit of it. Slimy and stinky is the bad. Once you know what it looks like, it's pretty easy to tell. To mold, it has to be exposed to air. If the package is sealed right, it should not be moldy. You should look for damage or holes in packaging first, then open. Parts can be bad and parts can be good. There is nothing wrong with just the white stuff. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Tdove - 2015-12-23 6:46 AM barrelracr131 - 2015-12-23 6:32 AM Yeast and mold are both fungal organisms. FYI, they can both make hay slimy, and I would not really want to feed either to my horse from contaminated hay.
If they are not eating it I would take it back. I have fed quite a bit of it. Slimy and stinky is the bad. Once you know what it looks like, it's pretty easy to tell. To mold, it has to be exposed to air. If the package is sealed right, it should not be moldy. You should look for damage or holes in packaging first, then open. Parts can be bad and parts can be good. There is nothing wrong with just the white stuff.
(as background) I have worked in a Food Microbiology Research lab doing microbial IDs, so that is the basis of my knowelge on yeasts and molds.
They both can be extremely slimy and nasty looking, in non scientific terms LOL. Yeast looks more like a yogurt consistency. Molds can actually also look the same way, but can also have the classic fuzziness to them. Some molds do not really every look fuzzy, even when grown in a lab. It depends on the type of mold. The molds and yeasts can also look like little spots or a dry film.
I disagree that the package needs to show signs of damage. In working with foods, the product can become exposed on the line and a sealed package, plus heat and moisture, can foster the mold or yeast growth. I admit I am not an expert on this particular product, but I have a lot of experience with the organisms in general. My previous job consisted of isolating the mold, yeast, or bacteria that was contaminating a product, growing it in culture, isolating it's DNA, and then sequencing the DNA. I would run each sequence through a database and then match it to the closest organism to write up a report for the client. I've tested everything from fruit snacks to canned goods to even a toilet swab once... that was interesting. LOL
I digress... mold can only grow in the prescence of oxygen, but even in a sealed back there is sometimes enough oxygen- for example, mold will grow on old yogurt even if the container is sealed properly because there is enough air in the top of the container. Yeasts can grow with or without oxygen.
In terms of the "white stuff", I err on the side of caution. If the horses won't eat it and it is grossly contaminated, I will take it back. It depends on the horse's reaction and the level of contamination as well. I would rather lose 20 bucks then spend hundreds in vet bills.
Anywhooooo, I would like to see the picture! That would be a help. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| My husband and I sell about a pallet a week of chaff hay. Ive fed it for about 2 years now. Ive had 1 bag that Ive ever opened and it was spoiled. It had gotten ripped when they packaged it and sat wrapped on the pallet for 4 months. It was slimy, smelled horrible and you just knew it was bad. Ive had other bags with the white yeast all through the bale. Others that had no yeast at all. Ive fed bales as old as a year and others as fresh as 2 months. My horses prefer the older bales. Its darker, softer and smells different then the newer bales. I guess its broken down from sitting for so long. Other peoples horses prefer the newer bales. Guess they all have their preference.
Ive heard all kinds of bad things about chaff hay and have yet to experience it. My horses love the stuff. Even my new mare is starting to gobble it up after 4 days. She looked at it funny the first day but I kept offering her a handful in her feed. Now shes looking for more. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Barrelracr131, here is the answer. I have been to the Chaffhaye facility and witnessed the production process. I have fed it extensively and can attest to the accuracy of the below. From Chaffhaye:
With Chaffhaye produced in individual 50 lb. bags, we can produce very high quality forage that is higher in available nutrients than any other forage. Chaffhaye is harvested and processed within 14 hours of cutting. It is then vacuum compressed into an airtight bag to remove the majority of oxygen. This initiates a beneficial fermentation process that drops the pH to below 4.5, a level very similar to the pH in the hindgut of horses. The fermentation process exhausts residual oxygen that may be in the bag. Botulism can not grow under these acidic conditions. With no oxygen, mold can not grow. In summary, pH under 4.5 – no botulism. No oxygen, means no mold. Like any fresh product, Chaffhaye needs to be used within a reasonable period of time once the bag is open and exposed to air. In hot, humid summer conditions, the product should be consumed within about 7 days after opening the bag. During the winter, the product remains fresh for up to 3 weeks after opening. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Tdove - 2015-12-23 8:25 AM Barrelracr131, here is the answer. I have been to the Chaffhaye facility and witnessed the production process. I have fed it extensively and can attest to the accuracy of the below. From Chaffhaye: With Chaffhaye produced in individual 50 lb. bags, we can produce very high quality forage that is higher in available nutrients than any other forage. Chaffhaye is harvested and processed within 14 hours of cutting. It is then vacuum compressed into an airtight bag to remove the majority of oxygen. This initiates a beneficial fermentation process that drops the pH to below 4.5, a level very similar to the pH in the hindgut of horses. The fermentation process exhausts residual oxygen that may be in the bag. Botulism can not grow under these acidic conditions. With no oxygen, mold can not grow. In summary, pH under 4.5 – no botulism. No oxygen, means no mold. Like any fresh product, Chaffhaye needs to be used within a reasonable period of time once the bag is open and exposed to air. In hot, humid summer conditions, the product should be consumed within about 7 days after opening the bag. During the winter, the product remains fresh for up to 3 weeks after opening.
It sounds like they have a great system in place, which is awesome. I figured the manufacturer had procedures in place- all companies do. Any product will have potential spoilage and pathogenic organisms that need to be tested and monitored, and companies have either additives or treatments that will kill or eliminate the majority of these "bugs" (think cooking, washing, adding an salt to prevent bacterial growth, and so on). This is smart to not only to prevent possible illness from use/consumption of their product, but also to limit the possibility of spoilage and lengthen the shelf life of the product.
Even the best systems and companies will have an occasional bad lot, or bad bag. Nothing is fool proof. Something could be moldy prior to packaging. As you said, bags can break, allowing oxygen in. Packaging can also have small holes that are not easy to see, but would still be enough to allow air in. Lines can also become contaminated. I think it is a good idea to always inspect your feed. Even the biggest and best companies with the most stringent procedures can have problems- that's life. Sometimes things happen. I know because figuring out the source of these problems was basically my entire job. ;)
It seems like the yeast is part of their production, so that I would be less concerned with. Certain yeast ssp (think Saccharomyces cerevisiae) are actually often given as a probiotics-so they are a good thing. I would not be typically concerned with it, unless the product looked different, felt different, or smelled different than normal (which it seems has occured with the product the OP received).
If I am in doubt, I don't feed. I have had issues with bad bags from other companies, and they have gladly replaced bags for me. I'm sure this company would be happy to do so. If I think I have an issue with a product, my first step is to call the company and speak with their customer service department.
It sounds like they are a respectable company that would be happy to discuss any concerns the OP has and if needed, replace the product. For the time being, I would hold off feeding and give them a call. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
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While I do agree that botulism cannot grow in acid conditions, I do not see how they can create the 4.5 pH by removing the oxygen. I do know that Chaffehaye does mold easily and feel that if it is not fed at the time it is opened, it will mold quickly.
If you think there is a possibility of mold, do not feed it.
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | If it's white that is the yeast cultures and it is fine to feed. It normally smells like it has worcheshire sauce on it to me. But if it is bad it smells really really bad! |
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