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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
    
Location: Florida.. | Tdove..... agree.. my post was blank.. ... Look at what your doing with your horse.. if it sits in pasture and doesnt get rode hard or in training then you probrably dont need more this and that ..I can also agree on a healthy horse training hard may not need this or that But it could need more then one sitting idle or a trail horse.. and needs addressed. my point is to know your horse and the needs.. Dont just follow the crowd .I have read on here owners doubling supplements and B12 and red cell and so many other things.. its just not the thing to do.. | |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida | Tdove - 2016-01-10 9:05 AM I have used a few supplements over the years. Many supplements are merely overpriced concoctions that could be better and more efficiently served in a good feeding program. The others are more medicinal or use specific. I do feel that these kind have their place for treating specific conditions. Most healthy horses do not have this requirement and the effectiveness is hard to measure. There was a statement above concerning contacting equine nutritionist. That is a fine idea, but understand that most equine nutritionist don't agree with one another and are a product of s systematic feed company controlled system. There is a lot of professional opinion and information that is either flat wrong, biased, or that I simply don't agree with. Educate yourself, is excellent advice, but make sure that you come up with your own opinions based on the many viewpoints that you research. Another point made is that supplements are necessary for horses at high levels and competing. I don't think this is nevcesarily true. If you feel your horse needs or benefits from some type of supplementation, I am not saying you are wrong. Do what you feel is best for you and your horse. I have done the same in the past, depending on what condition needed addressing. But, blanket supplementation, I do not follow that practice. If you have a healthy horse and a good feed program, most horses need nothing else. Many of the supplement compamies are providing way overpriced mythical solutions to a non existing problem. Many people disagree with the effectiveness of various supplements as well. I am not running down quality products. I am bringing attention to their marketing practices and overuse by many horse owners. These are my opinions and there are a few that I have been helpful to me, over the years. I have one now that I am thinking about using one of the supplements mentioned above, so I am not just against them by any means.
I totally agree with this. I have tried all of the expensive supplements over the years and have yet to notice a marked difference. My horses still look, feel and perform great, without the extra million dollars spent on supplements.
Since my basic feeding program without these wonderful supplements worked so well, I took it to the next level and dropped nearly all of the expensive "prerace" stuff also. The horses are still running hard and placing where they did using all of the extra prerace stuff. I have to say, my pocketbook looks and feels great, too.
Less is more, totally agree.
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 Saint Stacey
| I've had great luck with THE. But I don't feed fortified grain and only use THE on the horses under a heavy work load.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Before even looking at any supplement, you need to compile a list of what you want.
As others have said, most of the supplements I use are not long term.
When I look at a supplement
The ingredients, especially the concentration, ie some joint supplements have very little glucosamine and a lot of msm for the same price as one which has higher concentration of glucosamine.
Do I want a liquid or a powder
Do I want to feed it twice a day or daily
What am I hoping to get out of the supplement, ie hoof growth, top line, joint support.
Is this for maintaince, or preventative
Then I will look at the reviews of the product, and single ingredients | |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | You should know what your horse needs with the hay or pasture then add what you want too. | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Tdove - 2016-01-10 8:05 AM
I have used a few supplements over the years. Many supplements are merely overpriced concoctions that could be better and more efficiently served in a good feeding program. The others are more medicinal or use specific. I do feel that these kind have their place for treating specific conditions. Most healthy horses do not have this requirement and the effectiveness is hard to measure.
There was a statement above concerning contacting equine nutritionist. That is a fine idea, but understand that most equine nutritionist don't agree with one another and are a product of s systematic feed company controlled system. There is a lot of professional opinion and information that is either flat wrong, biased, or that I simply don't agree with. Educate yourself, is excellent advice, but make sure that you come up with your own opinions based on the many viewpoints that you research.
Another point made is that supplements are necessary for horses at high levels and competing. I don't think this is nevcesarily true. If you feel your horse needs or benefits from some type of supplementation, I am not saying you are wrong. Do what you feel is best for you and your horse. I have done the same in the past, depending on what condition needed addressing. But, blanket supplementation, I do not follow that practice. If you have a healthy horse and a good feed program, most horses need nothing else.
Many of the supplement compamies are providing way overpriced mythical solutions to a non existing problem. Many people disagree with the effectiveness of various supplements as well. I am not running down quality products. I am bringing attention to their marketing practices and overuse by many horse owners. These are my opinions and there are a few that I have been helpful to me, over the years. I have one now that I am thinking about using one of the supplements mentioned above, so I am not just against them by any means.
Would you share the ones you like? | |
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | Herbie - 2016-01-09 3:12 PM Hands down the Cur-OST products from Nouvelle Research. I encourage you to research every ingredient in these products and how they benefit overall health at the cellular level. From a maintenance and preventative perspective there is nothing better! Do they work, absolutely! They saved my horse's life when we had exceeded all medical options. I know of countless others who have restored not only their horse's health bit their own as well. There is a ton of information on the website under the articles tab, wwww.nouvelleresearch.com. This is a link to just one of the products they offer.
https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/products/equine-formulas/cur-...
They continue to research and continue to better educate and share that as well. Check out the forum at www.secondvet.com where many of us have asked questions and discussed issues directly with Dr Schell. Can't beat the service this company offers, the quality of the product, or the results you will see! Hands down the best investment I've ever made in my horse's and my own health!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Right now and typically, we do not have any horses in the barn on any supplements. We feed Omnis cubes with nothing else. They are the epitome of health.
I had a horse with sarcoids developing all over his body. We treated with Xxterra and I put him on Silver Lining immunity. They healed and have never came back.
We had a herd of broodmares that had not had good nutrition in quite some time (previous managers did not feed them well). We put them on great hay (the best there is) and Sweetpro 16 tubs. They transformed! I firmly believe the tubs were very helpful in this turnaround, though the good feed was the key ingredient. It is a prebiotic and I think that is helpful in getting proper microbial function in the hindgut. However, I don't feel probiotics are that effective, unless in certain situations. I also feel digestive supplements are not needed once proper hindgut health is achieved, with a great ongoing feed program.
We had a horse that had low stamina, slight breathing problem being worked (probably low grade infection or scar tissue from previous infection), and had tied up twice. He tested negative for any muscle disorder. We put him on DMG powder and it totally transformed him. Everything cleared up and he really muscled up and became a real athlete.
We have used Osteon for helping heal injuries and so forth. I cannot say it works but there seems to be common agreement that this is one of the few supplements that can aid in recovery of tendons, bone, etc.
I tend to believe the claims and effectiveness of the Curost supplement, because I think hindgut health is very key in animal health. I am considering trying it for a broodmare that we have that has had colic surgery and has had continued issues with colic. She originally became impacted on pasture.
The same horse that had the sarcoids now has a chronic eye infection that flares up on and off, supposedly for the rest of his life. It is has links to autoimmune function and since he has had issues in the past with this (sarcoids have similar links), I plan on putting him back on Silver Lining or possibly the Curost.
Horses that have arthritis, joint degeneration, possible ongoing allergies, etc.., I can see long term supplementation. I do really believe in the DMG. If I had a competitive barrel horse, I would probably have them on it. It helps with Oxygen utilization in muscle tissues and is the only supplement I have ever seen that beyond a doubt had a significant effect.
Edited by Tdove 2016-01-11 9:17 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
| Tdove- I think you were the one that clued me in on the DMG. Is it something that should not be fed longterm? You quite feeding it once you got your desired result? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | For the vast majority of supplements, I am not saying they should not be fed longterm. I feel that most are not needed long term. In some cases, yes, I think they should be. I do not think that it is harmful, generally speaking, but mostly wasteful. I have seen it mentioned by Winwillows that we feed into problems and try to supplement out of them. This can be very true. A great feed program (based on superior quality roughage) goes a long way to horse health and minimizes the need for much supplementation. I am by no means an expert on supplements and I highly doubt anyone is. I am just giving my opinion and thought process for consideration.
As far as DMG is concerned. It is a performance enhancer. It increases oxygen utilization. It is not a drug. I do not currently use it on anything. But, if the horse I talked about were competing currently, I would use it year round (It is the horse in my profile picture). I am not aware of any long term negatives of it. So, yes, I would use it long term, on a horse that I thought needed it or received a performance benefit from it.
Here is an article that explains DMG pretty well. It is cost effective and I like that.
http://www.vitaflex.com/res_growdmga.php
Edited by Tdove 2016-01-11 9:31 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Tdove - 2016-01-11 9:29 AM
For the vast majority of supplements, I am not saying they should not be fed longterm. I feel that most are not needed long term. In some cases, yes, I think they should be. I do not think that it is harmful, generally speaking, but mostly wasteful. I have seen it mentioned by Winwillows that we feed into problems and try to supplement out of them. This can be very true. A great feed program (based on superior quality roughage ) goes a long way to horse health and minimizes the need for much supplementation. I am by no means an expert on supplements and I highly doubt anyone is. I am just giving my opinion and thought process for consideration.
As far as DMG is concerned. It is a performance enhancer. It increases oxygen utilization. It is not a drug. I do not currently use it on anything. But, if the horse I talked about were competing currently, I would use it year round (It is the horse in my profile picture ). I am not aware of any long term negatives of it. So, yes, I would use it long term, on a horse that I thought needed it or received a performance benefit from it.
Here is an article that explains DMG pretty well. It is cost effective and I like that.
http://www.vitaflex.com/res_growdmga.php
This is so true. I wrote a article that published on the West Coast about five years ago titled "The trouble with Supplements". I will post a link if I can go back and find it. The bottom line was that a number of well made supplements do work for their intended purpose in certain situations, but not in others. The window where they are effective can be fairly narrow. When one person recommends the use of something that really worked for them, small differences in just what the issue is in someone else's horse can make it totally unsuitable for that application. The result is that the second person jumps on a horse forum to tell everyone how useless the product is. As Tdove pointed out above, I do think that we feed horses into trouble and then try to supplement them out of it. I am often asked what the best supplements are for the money. I always give the same answer, better forage. Go there, minimize grain based concentrates to under 2 pounds per day and establish a healthy base line for your horse. You would be amazed at how little else may be necessary for most horses once the roadblocks that are often created by a witches brew of different products being fed together are eliminated, and normal digestive function is reestablished. Once this is done, additional supplementation, if needed, can be much easier to establish, and the entire health management of the horse can be both more cost effective, and less confusing. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | My grain is Triple Crown Complete and Vitabran Joint Care. My heard of horses get THE. The compeition horses are on a custom supplement based off of blood work and the pasture ornaments/light -medium work horses get Performance with special blends or Muscle Mass with special blends depending on if they need weight or not. I'm a big fan of all of THE products because they are so versitile and affordable. I have seen positive results in all of my horses and I am happy with how they look and feel. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
| Dr. Schell has a great article out about supplements, feed, etc. I have been slowly trying to revamp my feeding program and taking a "good" hard look at what my horses need and don't need. For one thing once I started making notes and comparing what I was feeding, come to find out I was doubling on what I was feeding as in the supplements. So I have been taking the plunge so to speak and am "trying" to cut out the processed grain. We all have read for a long time now what processed food does to us humans, same thing applies to our horses. I fed a good feed, but I couldn't pronounce half of what was in it. I had someone who runs a health food store tell me why eat something you can't pronounce. Don't you think it would apply to our horses also? So on the advice and many, many e-mails of asking questions and etc., I am eliminating the processed grain and going with the Omnis Complete cubes (horses love them), and oats and THE Muscle Mass as I can pronounce all that is in THE and know what it is and does as some of what is in THE I take in my vitamins anyway. They are on pasture and 24/7 hay. So we will see how they do. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | oranges - 2016-01-09 1:58 PM
I've been away for Christmas, feels good to be back.
I think I've been in the same situation, with all the pro girls advertising products thinking I was missing out on something. I have done research, but I did take the advice on this board seriously. I'm at a very simple point right now, LESS is MORE. I ran a few weeks ago and I haven't ran in a couple months, I ran my personal best, it was awesome. I've tried quite a few things over the years, and honestly, I have never noticed a difference.
Think simple, here's mine
Grass and alfalfa hay
1 lb oats, 1 cup whole flax seed
Salt block.
Oh, and I let a camp borrow one of my horses last summer for trail rides. They only fed alfalfa. When he came back he looked better than all my horses here. That really confirmed my thoughts and suggestions here on the board for less is best.
I feel this exact way!
I only feed alfalfa and rice bran...
My competition horse(s) get strategy). A salt block and I don't do anything fancy and we run just fine lol. | |
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 BHW Jr. Cougar of the Year
Posts: 14957
Location: Heart of Texas | I have a chronic ulcer gelding front and hindgut. When he was first diagnosed, we treated him and started him on Bluebonnet feed and giving ulcergard before runs. Saw a huge difference in him, like night and day. He had been like this many years, but nobody would listen to me because he was "too fat" to have ulcers. Turns out he was bloated:'( His small frame and short back made his belly stick out horribly.
I've had to re-treat him several times. He will do good for a while, then they will come back. Although, nothing like he was pre diagnosis.
Two weeks ago I started him on Bluebonnet's Stride Transform DSI hoping to stretch out the time we have to re-treat him. I've never seen a change like the one he is going through. He's done a complete 360 in attitude and looks. Doesn't even try to chew down the fence when I'm saddling him anymore. No more yawning and fidgeting. Just his usually goofy self. I'm not a huge supplement giver, but this one works. All of my future horses will be on it, regardless if they have ulcers or not. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
| The other thing I tried was 2 different pre performance pastes from Oxygen. I didn't notice a difference. But I did start feeding my horses about 1-2 lbs alfalfa pellets when there at the trailer before a race. I really did notice a difference in there calmness and settled before entering the arena. We clocked the same. | |
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