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 Expert
Posts: 1857
   
| I need some schooling!! My gelding off the track is struggling picking up his left lead. I'm pretty positive it's me. He's not lame, once I get him in it he has no problems holding it and working, I just struggle getting him in it.
Roll backs off the fence, picks it up everytime, but I can't always do a roll back to get him to change. I've tried: trotting large circle to the left, elevating the left shoulder, nose to the outside and I cant get it. I've tried pushing his hip to the inside, nose to the inside and shoulders picked up and I'm still missing it.
What can I try or what am I doing wrong? Is off the track horses trained a different way to change leads? My two year olds seem to get so much easier.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| Usually off the track horses have a hard time getting their right lead not left. Maybe some round pen work |
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 Saint Stacey
| Why are you tipping the nose to the outside? All that does it throw them off. A lead comes from behind. You need to feel that inside hind. That's the departure leg. You need the body arched the same way as the lead you want. Then you feel for that inside hind to take the first step when breaking into a lope. Learn how it feels and you can always tell the lead they are about to take.
Edited by SKM 2016-04-09 12:05 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| SKM - 2016-04-09 12:01 PM
Why are you tipping the nose to the outside? All that does it throw them off. A lead comes from behind. You need to feel that inside hind. That's the departure leg. You need the body arched the same way as the lead you want. Then you feel for that inside hind to take the first step when breaking into a lope. Learn how it feels and you can always tell the lead they are about to take.
A horse can't pick up a lead if their shoulder is dropped and so if you slightly tip the nose to the outside it helps them keep their shoulder up and pick it up. With that said it's obviously not working for him...
I understand what you are saying, I'll keep trying. |
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Saint Stacey
| FlyingJT - 2016-04-09 11:27 AM
SKM - 2016-04-09 12:01 PM
Why are you tipping the nose to the outside? All that does it throw them off. A lead comes from behind. You need to feel that inside hind. That's the departure leg. You need the body arched the same way as the lead you want. Then you feel for that inside hind to take the first step when breaking into a lope. Learn how it feels and you can always tell the lead they are about to take.
A horse can't pick up a lead if their shoulder is dropped and so if you slightly tip the nose to the outside it helps them keep their shoulder up and pick it up. With that said it's obviously not working for him...
I understand what you are saying, I'll keep trying.
I have to disagree on tipping the nose to the outside elevates the shoulder. That actually drops the shoulder more due to the reverse arch it creates. Even I slight tip to the outside. Tipping to the outside forces weight to the inside shoulder, it causes the rib cage to go to the inside too. To correctly keep a shoulder up, it's all about having the correct arch and forcing them to stand upright. When running barrels, those riders that tip the nose to the outside hit more barrels because they actually drive that shoulder harder towards the barrel with the outside tip. |
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 Horsey Gene Carrier
Posts: 1888
Location: LaBelle, Florida | Horses need a reason to pick up the lead, use a fence. That way you are not having to think about what you are doing other than getting out of his way.
Drop to trot lead changes and aim for the fence to tell him which lead you want.
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| kasaj2000 - 2016-04-09 5:37 PM
Horses need a reason to pick up the lead, use a fence. That way you are not having to think about what you are doing other than getting out of his way.
Drop to trot lead changes and aim for the fence to tell him which lead you want.
Good idea all try that! |
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Location: South Dakota | Dressage trainer Jane Savoie's advice on how to pick up a certain lead, helped me greatly when I struggled with getting my young mare to pick up the left lead. She explains it very clearly and easily in her book Cross Training Your Horse, it turns out that I was asking for too much bend, and needed to be more subtle about the whole deal. I know from experience the struggle is real when they get sticky about a lead, and Jane's advice was spot on...She has videos on You Tube as well. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i agree with the above poster. i have had a couple of youg horses had a hard times with leads. what i did if i was doinging right liead i would be like a slow med trot i would used my lrg and move horse to the outside and then inside and them back to outside and then ask for the canter. one mare i had was little heavy in the shoulder when i used my leg i had a little dressage whip i would just app her behind my leg. after a week or two she was fine. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| also, on lead changes, on facebook there was a sandy collier lesson on lead changes that was very good sandy broke it down very simple. it was a good watch. |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I usually get them taking their leads by getting them solid on the lungeline & round pen first so that weak side gets a little stronger. When I ask them to get their lead, I make sure I don't have them bent too much to the inside. I also open the inside - open the rein, open the leg.
Also, doing a lot of lateral work on the ground & under saddle helps to free them up.
One thing to try, try doing a lateral move in the opposite direction before asking for the lead. A lot of times, they'll naturally "fall" into it. For instance, if you need a left lead, at a trot ask them to move laterally to the right and then ask them to canter on the left lead. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | SKM - 2016-04-09 10:37 AM
FlyingJT - 2016-04-09 11:27 AM
SKM - 2016-04-09 12:01 PM
Why are you tipping the nose to the outside? All that does it throw them off. A lead comes from behind. You need to feel that inside hind. That's the departure leg. You need the body arched the same way as the lead you want. Then you feel for that inside hind to take the first step when breaking into a lope. Learn how it feels and you can always tell the lead they are about to take.
A horse can't pick up a lead if their shoulder is dropped and so if you slightly tip the nose to the outside it helps them keep their shoulder up and pick it up. With that said it's obviously not working for him...
I understand what you are saying, I'll keep trying.
I have to disagree on tipping the nose to the outside elevates the shoulder. That actually drops the shoulder more due to the reverse arch it creates. Even I slight tip to the outside. Tipping to the outside forces weight to the inside shoulder, it causes the rib cage to go to the inside too. To correctly keep a shoulder up, it's all about having the correct arch and forcing them to stand upright. When running barrels, those riders that tip the nose to the outside hit more barrels because they actually drive that shoulder harder towards the barrel with the outside tip.
I think you both have a point. I think tipping to the outside "forces" the lead to happen and is more elementary; tipping to the inside and getting the hip under is more correct and sets it up better. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| hammer_time - 2016-04-10 2:23 PM SKM - 2016-04-09 10:37 AM FlyingJT - 2016-04-09 11:27 AM SKM - 2016-04-09 12:01 PM Why are you tipping the nose to the outside? All that does it throw them off. A lead comes from behind. You need to feel that inside hind. That's the departure leg. You need the body arched the same way as the lead you want. Then you feel for that inside hind to take the first step when breaking into a lope. Learn how it feels and you can always tell the lead they are about to take. A horse can't pick up a lead if their shoulder is dropped and so if you slightly tip the nose to the outside it helps them keep their shoulder up and pick it up. With that said it's obviously not working for him... I understand what you are saying, I'll keep trying. I have to disagree on tipping the nose to the outside elevates the shoulder. That actually drops the shoulder more due to the reverse arch it creates. Even I slight tip to the outside. Tipping to the outside forces weight to the inside shoulder, it causes the rib cage to go to the inside too. To correctly keep a shoulder up, it's all about having the correct arch and forcing them to stand upright. When running barrels, those riders that tip the nose to the outside hit more barrels because they actually drive that shoulder harder towards the barrel with the outside tip. I think you both have a point. I think tipping to the outside "forces" the lead to happen and is more elementary; tipping to the inside and getting the hip under is more correct and sets it up better.
Yes, it is, which is why I thought it would work for him. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| FlyingJT - 2016-04-09 4:47 PM
kasaj2000 - 2016-04-09 5:37 PM
Horses need a reason to pick up the lead, use a fence. That way you are not having to think about what you are doing other than getting out of his way.
Drop to trot lead changes and aim for the fence to tell him which lead you want.
Good idea all try that!
Agreed! My off the track horse used to have a terrible time picking up his left lead too. I just started following the fence line, and when he would start turning left on his own for the corner, I would tip his nose out to open his shoulder and use my inside heel to pick up that left lead. It took a good solid month of doing that, with reward, for him to really click and start picking it up for me without the fence :) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Don't tip the nose to the outside. Shoulders have to be up and not diving in. I push the shoulders out and the hip in, with the nose tipped in. Once they get good, you ideally you push the hip over and the shoulders will stay up and straight so you just block the shoulder and ask for hip over and push forward from a relative standstill. Teaching it you get a trot going but don't extend it out because it makes it more difficult to pick up a lead when they are strung out, because it comes from the hind end. |
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