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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
  
Location: Kansas | r_beau, I do work twice as hard on that right side. We lope a ton of extra circles that direction, do more flexing that way and more rollbacks to the right. I keep thinking that someday soon the light bulb will come on and the right turns will click for him, but so far that hasn't happened. :( | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Here is what I do before I ever put them on the pattern at a lope.
I will trot/lope circles but instead of making them round I will cut off one side and make more of a half pizza or a D shape. When I pick up on the rein I will use outside foot (and rein if they are too bendy) to try to make them square and make a straight line. When they get that picked up I will move to the other lead, then to the pattern.
I do this at a lope until the horse is comfortable, then I move to loping the pattern. | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | clover girl - 2016-04-26 12:06 PM Here is what I do before I ever put them on the pattern at a lope.
I will trot/lope circles but instead of making them round I will cut off one side and make more of a half pizza or a D shape. When I pick up on the rein I will use outside foot (and rein if they are too bendy) to try to make them square and make a straight line. When they get that picked up I will move to the other lead, then to the pattern.
I do this at a lope until the horse is comfortable, then I move to loping the pattern.
That makes sense to me. I'm hoping this thread will give me some new drills to try with him as I don't want to do a ton of barrel work just trying to fix this one turn. My goal for Streak has always been to be at least at the top of the 3D and have a shot at paying his way to some jackpots, then maybe be a kid horse when he's about 20. (I'm not sure my boyfriend is aware of this deadline....LOL.) He's 14 so I think those are reasonable, though much less ambitious than normal, goals for him. | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 8:32 AM cranky B4 10am - 2016-04-26 10:25 AM OK, here is my $0.02.
I really watched you in all the runs not your horse..... Going around 1st you are not looking at where you have to go. You don't look at 2nd untill he is aimed at it. But on both 2nd and 3rd you look where you have to go a lot sooner.
And the reason I noticed is because I have issues with that too, if I am looking where I should be looking we have a very nice 1st, but if I am not looking around to 2nd we will have a semi-truck turn.... most of the time my 2nd and 3rd are alright, so no problem there. Unless I look straight at the barrel, and that usualy means we hit it.
Also he doesn't seem to rate on 1st, so might have to do some more slow work on that.
I'm not surprised to hear this. I know it's a weakness of mine.
Yep. Especially noticed this with the last 2 videos. I can't even tell where you're looking but it's anywhere BUT the second LOL. It was also my issue when my horse ran by so I'm not picking on you. :)
I agree with Flittastic-- more of a rollback style might fit him better on the first. Like straighter into it, more room on the backside, straighter departure. I guess that's what I was thinking when I said "teardrop" earlier. Maybe a hybrid? I'd definitely try the squares exercise because it shows them the EXACT places to put their feet.
I liked his his run better in the first bit where the reins flipped over, not the Rosie gag. Seems like you could get his nose better and had a BIT more flexibility in the ribcage.
I just watched Clinton Anderson's little series on his paint stud colt he's going to futurity and he does ALOT of flexing and bending at the trot. I know he's notorious for making his horses "over-bendy" but I know *I* never concentrate that much on bending and circles and counter arcs just wherever in the arena and maybe I should. Might be something to think about doing, especially since he is SO stiff to the right. Has he been chiropractored lately? I'd at least get him doing stretches with treats to get him flexible in his body without a rider. Anything to loosen him up on that side!! | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | hammer_time - 2016-04-26 1:23 PM rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 8:32 AM cranky B4 10am - 2016-04-26 10:25 AM OK, here is my $0.02.
I really watched you in all the runs not your horse..... Going around 1st you are not looking at where you have to go. You don't look at 2nd untill he is aimed at it. But on both 2nd and 3rd you look where you have to go a lot sooner.
And the reason I noticed is because I have issues with that too, if I am looking where I should be looking we have a very nice 1st, but if I am not looking around to 2nd we will have a semi-truck turn.... most of the time my 2nd and 3rd are alright, so no problem there. Unless I look straight at the barrel, and that usualy means we hit it.
Also he doesn't seem to rate on 1st, so might have to do some more slow work on that.
I'm not surprised to hear this. I know it's a weakness of mine.
I agree with Flittastic-- more of a rollback style might fit him better on the first. Like straighter into it, more room on the backside, straighter departure. I guess that's what I was thinking when I said "teardrop" earlier. Maybe a hybrid? I'd definitely try the squares exercise because it shows them the EXACT places to put their feet.
I liked his his run better in the first bit where the reins flipped over, not the Rosie gag. Seems like you could get his nose better and had a BIT more flexibility in the ribcage.
I just watched Clinton Anderson's little series on his paint stud colt he's going to futurity and he does ALOT of flexing and bending at the trot. I know he's notorious for making his horses "over-bendy" but I know *I* never concentrate that much on bending and circles and counter arcs just wherever in the arena and maybe I should. Might be something to think about doing, especially since he is SO stiff to the right. Has he been chiropractored lately? I'd at least get him doing stretches with treats to get him flexible in his body without a rider. Anything to loosen him up on that side!!
The bit in the video where my reins flipped is what I ran him in over the weekend. Every video except the 4/17 video is in that bit. I ran him 4/17 in the Rosie gag because I had worked him in it at home that week and felt like he responded better than in the other longer-shanked bit. That trend did not continue in our exhibition or the open run. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 8:31 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-04-26 10:23 AM Just my opinion here. I always start my horses a certain style but if they deviate from that and pick a way they like to turn and it works, I kind of let them do it so we both can be happy. I don't believe in picking on one to make them conform to a certain style. To me, if I was running your horse, I would almost shoot for a roll back turn on the first then keep the other 2 the same as he seems to be really consistent and bendy on those. I would push him to the hip on the first, sit and see if you can't get him to roll back all in one motion on that first barrel. He sure seems trainable and is listening!
I'd love to do this, but we aren't even getting that accomplished. Any suggestions of how to teach this?
I had one like yours. What i did is not rate or stop before the barrel. Just go to the set point on the BACK of the barrel, then stop back up one step and go ahead and come around it. Will teach him to not rate until back side then set and turn. Hope that helps. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| FLITASTIC - 2016-04-26 1:58 PM
rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 8:31 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-04-26 10:23 AM Just my opinion here. I always start my horses a certain style but if they deviate from that and pick a way they like to turn and it works, I kind of let them do it so we both can be happy. I don't believe in picking on one to make them conform to a certain style. To me, if I was running your horse, I would almost shoot for a roll back turn on the first then keep the other 2 the same as he seems to be really consistent and bendy on those. I would push him to the hip on the first, sit and see if you can't get him to roll back all in one motion on that first barrel. He sure seems trainable and is listening!
I'd love to do this, but we aren't even getting that accomplished. Any suggestions of how to teach this?
I had one like yours. What i did is not rate or stop before the barrel. Just go to the set point on the BACK of the barrel, then stop back up one step and go ahead and come around it. Will teach him to not rate until back side then set and turn. Hope that helps.
Molli starts hers this way. I've been stalking her videos and I've got one started trying to mimic and I can already tell I like the way he's coming along. It seems he's picked up on it fast. | |
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 Nothing Comes Easy
Posts: 2353
Location: Texas | 1. Figure 8s
2. Square exercises
3. Spiral circles big to small especially to the right
4. When you trot the pattern, square off the first and as you come out, lift up the outside shoulder and counter arch back, turn the barrel and continue on.
Edited by Stride 2016-04-26 4:54 PM
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
This might have been mentioned because I didnt read every post...but why are you turning the first barrel with two hands? I think you need to push him into it, sit down hard on your pockets, say "WHOA" and drop that hand to the horn. I think by keeping 2 hands he is keeping his shoulders square and cant really cross over in the front to make a pretty finished turn. | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | I kind of stopped responding to posts on here a while back since I was crazy busy last week, but wanted to offer an update.
I had been wondering what bit to try next for a while, and Sunday at a race, I tried going back to the jr. cowhorse but that resulted in an awful exhibition with Streak fighting every time I touched the reins, so I finally threw my hands up and reached for my Jim Warner hackamore in despair. We did an exhbition in it with me saying it would either work really well or be a train wreck but I was going to find out. We turned the first barrel so tight we knocked it over! Trust me that has never happened!
So I ran him in it in the open and we won the 4D just cruising. This was not our favorite type of pen and the ground had been pretty iffy earlier in the jackpot, so I was proud of Streak for handling everything and making a halfway solid run without me having to handle him all the way around the first barrel. Not sure how well the video will show up since we just used my phone.....running 4 horses and having them all in back-to-back drags made our day pretty wild!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIhvOWSLhvo | |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | He's not turning it because he's not in the proper body position to do so. It looks to me like his ribcage is leaking out to the left, which is why he doesn't "come" to your inside hand and snap back on that turn. Your thinking too much and worrying about what bit to put in him, when I'd be more concerned with whats going on with your motor and fixing that instead. Your not going to magically fix his issues with a bit. you need one to help you out, but its not his fix in my opinion. His butt is what's "driving" your program so to speak, start softening it up (moving his hips), teach him to soften his ribs (go lateral), and unlock those shoulders (counterarcs). All of that has to be pretty darn free for him to move correctly around the turn. JMO.
He is a super sweet looking dude and seems so kind and quiet.
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 Veteran
Posts: 239
| WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-05-05 12:33 PM He's not turning it because he's not in the proper body position to do so. It looks to me like his ribcage is leaking out to the left, which is why he doesn't "come" to your inside hand and snap back on that turn. Your thinking too much and worrying about what bit to put in him, when I'd be more concerned with whats going on with your motor and fixing that instead. Your not going to magically fix his issues with a bit. you need one to help you out, but its not his fix in my opinion. His butt is what's "driving" your program so to speak, start softening it up (moving his hips), teach him to soften his ribs (go lateral), and unlock those shoulders (counterarcs). All of that has to be pretty darn free for him to move correctly around the turn. JMO.
He is a super sweet looking dude and seems so kind and quiet.
I know I'm late to the party but I agree with WYO on body position. I would add that shoulder control will help you out a whole bunch too. I only watched the last video posted but not only are his ribs carrying to the left, he's not moving his shoulder to the right either.
What I like to do is (from a walk - then trot, then lope as the progress) is walk around the barrel to the point that I want them to turn , then stop and do a turnaround to that direction - so for you, to the right. I do several revolutions and really get after them with my feet. Then continue around the barrel. I only spin them behind the barrel a few times if I am working the pattern otherwise they do get hot...and as they learn, you can use less foot and more just neck rain. But you will find that once you get to that point and cue, they will start to snap back a LOT faster because they are thinking about moving that shoulder.
This will help keep your inside hand down as well, it looked kinda high to me in the video. Eventually you can just run up, drop your outside hand and keep your inside hand low once they get moving that shoulder.
Your horse will need to know the turnaround obviously before you start this drill.
Unfortuantely my program always starts with lots of slow work, so not a really quick fix. ... but it might give you a new drill to do 
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The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | 2H~QH - 2016-05-05 2:39 PM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-05-05 12:33 PM He's not turning it because he's not in the proper body position to do so. It looks to me like his ribcage is leaking out to the left, which is why he doesn't "come" to your inside hand and snap back on that turn. Your thinking too much and worrying about what bit to put in him, when I'd be more concerned with whats going on with your motor and fixing that instead. Your not going to magically fix his issues with a bit. you need one to help you out, but its not his fix in my opinion. His butt is what's "driving" your program so to speak, start softening it up (moving his hips), teach him to soften his ribs (go lateral), and unlock those shoulders (counterarcs). All of that has to be pretty darn free for him to move correctly around the turn. JMO.
He is a super sweet looking dude and seems so kind and quiet.
I know I'm late to the party but I agree with WYO on body position. I would add that shoulder control will help you out a whole bunch too. I only watched the last video posted but not only are his ribs carrying to the left, he's not moving his shoulder to the right either.
What I like to do is (from a walk - then trot, then lope as the progress) is walk around the barrel to the point that I want them to turn , then stop and do a turnaround to that direction - so for you, to the right. I do several revolutions and really get after them with my feet. Then continue around the barrel. I only spin them behind the barrel a few times if I am working the pattern otherwise they do get hot...and as they learn, you can use less foot and more just neck rain. But you will find that once you get to that point and cue, they will start to snap back a LOT faster because they are thinking about moving that shoulder.
This will help keep your inside hand down as well, it looked kinda high to me in the video. Eventually you can just run up, drop your outside hand and keep your inside hand low once they get moving that shoulder.
Your horse will need to know the turnaround obviously before you start this drill.
Unfortuantely my program always starts with lots of slow work, so not a really quick fix. ... but it might give you a new drill to do
We just did something similar at a clinic this weekend with my horse, on the backside of the barrel, but I disagree with using less leg and more neck rein. The more outside rein you put on one the more you encourage that inside front foot to drive into the ground. By doing this you will actually drop one on their front end, where your suppose to have them rocked back in order to blast out of your turn. If you get them very respectful of your leg and keeping that ribcage in proper placement they will know just by the slightest touch of rein and foot that they had better be sweeping the shoulders and getting out of that turn. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Try some square drills, and really get the snap on the backside of the barrel so he finishes tight, get his hip up underneath him, kind of like rollback style. He looks just like how one of mine used to run! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| If you are completely sure he is not sore - I personally think he is just lollygagging around and wallering around the 1st barrel. He doesn't think he is supposed to snap the 1st, because you are not asking him to. Honestly he never drags a leg up and rates. He could care less what your hands are telling him. He can make a beautiful move on the 3rd - he could make a similar one on the 1st., even if it isn't his best way.
I really like Ed Wrights figure 8 drill in this type of situation. Walk the 1st barrel using your inside right rein and when getting ready to leave it, continue with pressure from your right hand. Let his hip take a few steps past the barrel headed to a point between the 2nd and 3 rd barrel- continuing to direct movement with your right hand. Reverse arc to the left - finish the arc in position to turn the barrel to the right. Once he gets the hang of the movement, trot the drill and eventually move up to the lope. This drill gets one listening to the inside rein, dragging up a hip, finishing a turn, and adds life and agility to the feet.
Good luck.
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | KindaClassey - 2016-05-05 8:08 PM If you are completely sure he is not sore - I personally think he is just lollygagging around and wallering around the 1st barrel. He doesn't think he is supposed to snap the 1st, because you are not asking him to. Honestly he never drags a leg up and rates. He could care less what your hands are telling him. He can make a beautiful move on the 3rd - he could make a similar one on the 1st., even if it isn't his best way. I really like Ed Wrights figure 8 drill in this type of situation. Walk the 1st barrel using your inside right rein and when getting ready to leave it, continue with pressure from your right hand. Let his hip take a few steps past the barrel headed to a point between the 2nd and 3 rd barrel- continuing to direct movement with your right hand. Reverse arc to the left - finish the arc in position to turn the barrel to the right. Once he gets the hang of the movement, trot the drill and eventually move up to the lope. This drill gets one listening to the inside rein, dragging up a hip, finishing a turn, and adds life and agility to the feet. Good luck.
I agree about lollygagging! Streak is a sweetheart but has a tendency to get lazy when he's not confident. I worked him tonight in a Simplicity knockoff and really concentrated on rating and finishing the first barrel. I felt like we made some progress, but I'm sure we'll have to repeat it a number of times before it sticks.
I don't know that I completely understand the Ed Wright figure 8 drill the way you described it. I get the overfinishing part, but then are we making a left circle and coming back to the barrel in position to turn it going right? We definitely need the work on finishing the turn and being agile with feet....lord knows those are not Streak's strengths. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | You could also look up Jordan Briggs' figure eight pattern drill on "training barrel horses .com" | |
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Veteran
Posts: 239
| WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-05-05 2:08 PM 2H~QH - 2016-05-05 2:39 PM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-05-05 12:33 PM He's not turning it because he's not in the proper body position to do so. It looks to me like his ribcage is leaking out to the left, which is why he doesn't "come" to your inside hand and snap back on that turn. Your thinking too much and worrying about what bit to put in him, when I'd be more concerned with whats going on with your motor and fixing that instead. Your not going to magically fix his issues with a bit. you need one to help you out, but its not his fix in my opinion. His butt is what's "driving" your program so to speak, start softening it up (moving his hips), teach him to soften his ribs (go lateral), and unlock those shoulders (counterarcs). All of that has to be pretty darn free for him to move correctly around the turn. JMO.
He is a super sweet looking dude and seems so kind and quiet.
I know I'm late to the party but I agree with WYO on body position. I would add that shoulder control will help you out a whole bunch too. I only watched the last video posted but not only are his ribs carrying to the left, he's not moving his shoulder to the right either.
What I like to do is (from a walk - then trot, then lope as the progress) is walk around the barrel to the point that I want them to turn , then stop and do a turnaround to that direction - so for you, to the right. I do several revolutions and really get after them with my feet. Then continue around the barrel. I only spin them behind the barrel a few times if I am working the pattern otherwise they do get hot...and as they learn, you can use less foot and more just neck rain. But you will find that once you get to that point and cue, they will start to snap back a LOT faster because they are thinking about moving that shoulder.
This will help keep your inside hand down as well, it looked kinda high to me in the video. Eventually you can just run up, drop your outside hand and keep your inside hand low once they get moving that shoulder.
Your horse will need to know the turnaround obviously before you start this drill.
Unfortuantely my program always starts with lots of slow work, so not a really quick fix. ... but it might give you a new drill to do
OH absolutely I agree with you - I may have worded wrong - I also use a lot of leg to begin with, but I lay my neck rein on first and then follow with leg when I am teaching this. When they start to associate the neck rein with, hey, your leg might be following, and they start to try to beat your leg (move their shoulder before you get your leg in them) that is how I know it's working.
For me personally in a run I can't get my foot up where its supposed to be anyway (I am hanging on for dear life, LOL), so I expect them to now just move off the rein. | |
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