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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
   
| From what I read, he only kicks when you try to pick up the back legs? If that is correct, then my suggestion is to start with a long whip and use it to start desensitizing the legs. I don't ever hit with the whip unless they are trying to kick me. I just keep rubbing up and down the legs until they quit trying to kick. If it's not too cold where you live you could also start with spraying the legs with water from a hose. Once the horse will tolerate the whip rubbing the legs, the next thing I would do is get a rope around the leg and start using that to get the horse to give. We will use this on horses that want to kick when you go to pick up the leg. Make sure you are wearing gloves. I have a rope that my shoer braided so that I can loop it around the ankle and the horse can't kick it off. With a kicker, they will try to kick it off, which is why you need the gloves. Just keep ahold of the rope until they give. Then use the rope to get the horse to pick up the leg and set it down. Do this over and over again until it's not a fight. Then I like to keep the rope on the leg and attempt to pick it up without the horse kicking. I make sure to start touching the horse way up high, wherever you know they are comfortable, then rub my hand all the way down the leg. This way they aren't startled with a sudden touch they aren't expecting. If they kick, you still have control with the rope, and can use it to keep ahold of the leg. If you can, have someone hold the horse while you're doing this so. Have them stand on the same side as you, that way of things get out of control they can pull the horse's head your direction and make the hip swing away from you.
Hopefully I explained that well, but let me know if something is confusing or doesn't make sense! |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-19 3:22 PM
I would say this horse has had an owner (s ) that herded their horses with stupid cattle dogs or thought it was great fun to see their dogs and horses "playing" with each other while horses were being nipped on the heels ....
You can flip a rope around a rear foot to trim and be shod ........
but you can never trust him not to brain you as you comb his tail or walk behind him or along side of him ... his surprise reflex actions are to kick the xxLL out of you ....
If your dogs are messing with your horses ..... shoot the dog (s ) ...
https://youtu.be/JKlJ3kc92n0
https://youtu.be/B3kxLUofi6g
Sometimes this can be a created issue, but other times it's just the horse's instinct to protect itself. I have a horse that was attacked by a dog, and he has never been bad with his legs. We've raised and trained quite a few, some just need a little more desensitizing to feel comfortable with their back legs being picked up. I've been kicked before, and it's not fun! |
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 Yard Ornament Collector
 
Location: BFE, Texas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-19 3:22 PM
I would say this horse has had an owner (s ) that herded their horses with stupid cattle dogs or thought it was great fun to see their dogs and horses "playing" with each other while horses were being nipped on the heels ....
You can flip a rope around a rear foot to trim and be shod ........
but you can never trust him not to brain you as you comb his tail or walk behind him or along side of him ... his surprise reflex actions are to kick the xxLL out of you ....
If your dogs are messing with your horses ..... shoot the dog (s ) ...
https://youtu.be/JKlJ3kc92n0
https://youtu.be/B3kxLUofi6g
"Stupid cattle dogs" "shoot the dogs" STUPID REPLY !!!!! If someone is sicking their dogs on horses, then its "stupid owners"!! Dang, you've come up with some ignorant answers before, but I believe this one is right up there at the top. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I agree with TX3Turns..
There is no such thing as a stupid cattle dog. The problem is these dogs are usually smarter then the people that own them and create their own problems.
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| wickedstepmother - 2016-11-19 2:08 PM
To the person who said that a horse doesn't understand being "beat", are you saying they don't understand another horse double barreling them with both hind feet when they step out of line? Cause correct physical discipline is pretty much the same. And I don't consider that beating them. A lead horse is not gentle not kind when they swiftly discipline another horse in the herd. It's a quick way to wind up on the bottom of the pecking order.
We can agree to disagree. I do not believe that this is the best method to work with a horse on this issue. I have seen better training done on horses that we couldn't touch to get loaded in a trailer. Had to use a chute system. Everyone has their way, but I do not believe this is the best way. You don't agree, to each their own. A lot of people in the horse world find one thing that works and stick to it.
I do not feel a horse understands someone whacking them with a whip as well as they understand making the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy. If a horse does something you don't like you make their feet move. When they are aware of your presence and your space then they get to rest, but must keep eyes on you looking to ask for what you want next out of them. The horse is kicking to protect itself... I don't tie a horse up and let my other horses proceed to whale on it. They have the chance to get away when in the field.
Edited by magic gunsmoke 2016-11-19 6:15 PM
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| KPwuvsOliver - 2016-11-18 4:27 PM
I'll try to keep it short, but a few months ago I got a little gelding from the kill pens. He rides great, no major conformation flaws, someone put a lot of time in him at one point-slides, spins, lead changes he does it. He's only about 10 years old. He's very watchy but not spooky, he's definitely not a fan of men. Everything has been great except for the fact he's a violent kicker. You basically cannot pick up his hind feet because he will kick you, and he's so fast. He's gotten me twice when I didn't realize how reactive he was about it. I have a dent in my leg from multiple kicks to the thigh. I corrected him (for lack of better term for beating..) Despite all of this, he is a good horse and I like riding him and he has a good work ethic and he's pretty athletic. What exactly can I do to fix this problem? Has anyone had experiences with this? I'm getting to the point where I might just have to accept him for what he is.
You stated the reason this horse was in a kill pen .... he is a notorious
kicker and may have hurt someone really bad ... so they got rid of him.
Your statement "he doesn't like men" is the typical nonsense we
hear all the time ...
especially when you have a dent in your leg from him showing no
respect for you as a woman ... so how can the man comment be true?
This horse came to you cheap ... so it is your decision on how much
you want to eventually spend on a hospital bill after he nails you ..
All you have to do is pay attention to your horse to figure out if they
have been around a bunch of nipping dogs or raised with well mannered
// trained dogs. Guess which horse will back his ears and even
glare at you when you are around his rear end vs a horse that will
prick their ears and be in a relaxed mode while you are at his rear
end...
Dog owners are defensive just like neighbors are that have stupid
kids ... it is always someone else's fault .. lol
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Yard Ornament Collector
Location: BFE, Texas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-20 4:21 AM
KPwuvsOliver - 2016-11-18 4:27 PM
I'll try to keep it short, but a few months ago I got a little gelding from the kill pens. He rides great, no major conformation flaws, someone put a lot of time in him at one point-slides, spins, lead changes he does it. He's only about 10 years old. He's very watchy but not spooky, he's definitely not a fan of men. Everything has been great except for the fact he's a violent kicker. You basically cannot pick up his hind feet because he will kick you, and he's so fast. He's gotten me twice when I didn't realize how reactive he was about it. I have a dent in my leg from multiple kicks to the thigh. I corrected him (for lack of better term for beating..) Despite all of this, he is a good horse and I like riding him and he has a good work ethic and he's pretty athletic. What exactly can I do to fix this problem? Has anyone had experiences with this? I'm getting to the point where I might just have to accept him for what he is.
You stated the reason this horse was in a kill pen .... he is a notorious
kicker and may have hurt someone really bad ... so they got rid of him.
Your statement "he doesn't like men" is the typical nonsense we
hear all the time ...
especially when you have a dent in your leg from him showing no
respect for you as a woman ... so how can the man comment be true?
This horse came to you cheap ... so it is your decision on how much
you want to eventually spend on a hospital bill after he nails you ..
All you have to do is pay attention to your horse to figure out if they
have been around a bunch of nipping dogs or raised with well mannered
// trained dogs. Guess which horse will back his ears and even
glare at you when you are around his rear end vs a horse that will
prick their ears and be in a relaxed mode while you are at his rear
end...
Dog owners are defensive just like neighbors are that have stupid
kids ... it is always someone else's fault .. lol
Here you again BHUSA.... assuming !! You don't even know for sure if dogs even caused the problem ! And yea, I am defending RESPONSIBLE dog owners. There is a difference in case you hadn't heard? Why do you keep harping on bad dogs causing this horse's problem ? It could be anything from defense to poor eyesight to bad manners. We don't know for sure. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 382
| Southtxponygirl - 2016-11-19 1:32 PM
I have a friend that lost his right eye from being kicked in the head, and I know of a little boy that was kicked in the head and there was no reason for these horses to be kicking. I would never own a horse that is a know kicker they are worthless like a horse that flips. I bet there was a reason why the op's horse was in a kill pen he may have hurt someone really bad are worst by being the kicker he is. They are just flat out dangerious to have around. Please if you have any childrent be extra careful..
Bless you OP for being someone with a heart that saved a horse out of the kill pen, but please be very careful 
This ^ |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Personally with all the pain and medical bills I have now after being kicked in the chest in 2010, that horse would have to be winning some major money for me to deal with it. There are WAY too many nice horses out there. The mare that kicked me was with me because of her seriously spoiled brat attitude, after 3 weeks of solid ground work she was doing AWESOME! Completely different and much nicer attitude. One day she decided being good was too much work I guess, in a split second she went from attentive and docile to "screw you!", there were no warning signs and there was absolutely no time for me to react.
I am not telling you, you should just give up. Just Remi ding you to remember that he may have ended up at a kill lot because the previous owners were out of options or because he seriously hurt someone. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Tx3turns - 2016-11-20 6:25 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-20 4:21 AM
KPwuvsOliver - 2016-11-18 4:27 PM
I'll try to keep it short, but a few months ago I got a little gelding from the kill pens. He rides great, no major conformation flaws, someone put a lot of time in him at one point-slides, spins, lead changes he does it. He's only about 10 years old. He's very watchy but not spooky, he's definitely not a fan of men. Everything has been great except for the fact he's a violent kicker. You basically cannot pick up his hind feet because he will kick you, and he's so fast. He's gotten me twice when I didn't realize how reactive he was about it. I have a dent in my leg from multiple kicks to the thigh. I corrected him (for lack of better term for beating..) Despite all of this, he is a good horse and I like riding him and he has a good work ethic and he's pretty athletic. What exactly can I do to fix this problem? Has anyone had experiences with this? I'm getting to the point where I might just have to accept him for what he is.
You stated the reason this horse was in a kill pen .... he is a notorious
kicker and may have hurt someone really bad ... so they got rid of him.
Your statement "he doesn't like men" is the typical nonsense we
hear all the time ...
especially when you have a dent in your leg from him showing no
respect for you as a woman ... so how can the man comment be true?
This horse came to you cheap ... so it is your decision on how much
you want to eventually spend on a hospital bill after he nails you ..
All you have to do is pay attention to your horse to figure out if they
have been around a bunch of nipping dogs or raised with well mannered
// trained dogs. Guess which horse will back his ears and even
glare at you when you are around his rear end vs a horse that will
prick their ears and be in a relaxed mode while you are at his rear
end...
Dog owners are defensive just like neighbors are that have stupid
kids ... it is always someone else's fault .. lol
Here you again BHUSA.... assuming !! You don't even know for sure if dogs even caused the problem ! And yea, I am defending RESPONSIBLE dog owners. There is a difference in case you hadn't heard? Why do you keep harping on bad dogs causing this horse's problem ? It could be anything from defense to poor eyesight to bad manners. We don't know for sure.
My first thought was that was the reason the horse was in a kill pen, also. I just got rid of a kicker because she was getting worse and worse. The lady that bought her knew she kicked. Just my opinion, but there are too many horses that don't kick. Get rid of the horse before you get hurt. Totally agree with BHUSA. |
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| Ok dog people ...
I bought me a dog today to help me work my horses ..
I had him trained and working in just a couple of hours !!
AREN'T YOU PROUD OF ME!!!!!
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Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-11-21 12:09 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 126
Location: Out West | I unknowingly bought one that would back up to the stall door and try to kick you when I first got her home. I would walk up to the stall, call to her and if she didn't face me, I hit her rear hard with a whip. It only took a few times to correct the problem. She didn't even need to see me, all she had to do was hear me talking somewhere and she would face the door. |
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Yard Ornament Collector
Location: BFE, Texas | BHUSA... since either you're totally missing my point or just being a smart azz, have fun with it.
Streakysox.. I understand totally what you're saying..too many good ones out there if someone doesn't want to deal with a bad one. There's a horse out there for everyone.. My main point tho, was in dogs being blamed for that particular horse, when actually we don't know. It's like saying a horse is headshy because it was beat over the head and abused. It may not always be the case and someone or something usually ends getting the blame for bad training or lack of it. |
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  Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Humans can be unreasonably stupid via their compassion and this thread / scenario illustrates that. |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | I've skipped most of the snarky stuff, so I might have missed something logical that was already said...
If the horse panicks and kicks because he's scared, I wouldn't beat him. I'd work on desensitizing him and maybe he'll get over it. Roping his feet, moving his feet, etc is where I'd start. And do it a LOT.
If he's calculating about it (which it doesn't sound like this one is), I'd "beat" him- a little like Bear described.
In either case, it's in knowing when to apply pressure and when to release that the magic happens to turn him around. JMHO. |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Maybe I missed it, but I'm not seeing where the poster mentioned how they were picking up the back feet, and how he was being approached. Sometimes that one simple thing can make all the difference in the world. Some horses you have to let them know that's what you're fixing to do, if you just reach& grab it startles them and they kick out -- that's nature , but if you place a hand on their side and keep it on them as you head to the back end and then continue running your head down their leg so its a continual touching they do better. A whole lot of roping helps, but I will say even with a whole lot of roping I've seen some horses still cow kick as the first reaction if you just reach & grab, or touch them with a hard object. |
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