|
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
  
Location: NC | Had a well bred mare like that. Got her as a 3 yr old, went thru all the firsts, did a ton with her. Then something happened (she was 7). Started bucking at a lope and off at the trot. 1st vet tested for lyme and thought stifles. Neg lyme and blocked and injected stifles(ended up being off for 5-6 months due to cruddy boarding situation before injecting stifles). Nothing. 2nd vet said maybe lymes or issues with her ovaries. Lymes neg and internal ultrasound showed everything normal. Next step would have been to take her to big vet clinic. Unfortunately not made of money plus living in one of the most expensive areas and having to board meant not being able to. So put her up as broodmare sound only for sale. Thankfully someone in middle of country bought her and shes living life in a pasture and be bred. I miss her all the time, she was my princess, but it was hard walking past her not knowing what was wrong and watching her face when i grabbed my other guy to work. (she loved to do stuff and work) So at least i know shes ok and am friends with new owners on fb. (shes 8 this year when she sold) | |
| | |
 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
 
Location: 31 lengths farms | Chandler's Mom - 2016-08-11 7:59 PM
run n rate - 2016-08-10 11:36 AM
Unfortunately for my bank account my momma didn't raise no quitter, LOL!!! 
I don't have anything running at a super high level, just local stuff and a trip to Pendleton 4th of July race every now and then. For me my horses are family, I'm 51, I do not have kids, my horses really are my "children" so to speak. My 15 year old gelding had some foot issues on and off, spent way more than he is probably worth on paper to get him sorted out and on the right track. My big mare is an assortment of issues, blew up in the trailer for some reason, got an infection in the hock joint, was on and off lame over the next 2 years, had just gotten her figured out and sound and then she started doing weird stuff with her head, rubbing to the point of almost falling down, standing with her head on the ground inbetween her front feet, couldn't stand a halter to even be put on, lunging and complete melt down when my fiance insisted she was just naughty and I tried to ride her. She was terrified and shaking. Finally got a diagnosis of head shakers syndrome, have tried several things all which gave us some results and finally settled on Cur-ost and it has been a blessing for her. We had been at this between the hock and the head shakers since 2011.
And then there is CC, she found she not only was good at bucking but that she liked it, bucked me off 3 times, the last one fractured my knee cap, broke 5 ribs and bruised my heart. Life was a constant "what is going to happen today?" with her, then she ran into a tractor in 2011 and fractured her patella . Spent 10 months handwalking, first in straight lines in the pastures, then over cavelettis, then up and down hills. She came back sound and the biggest thing was thru all of that she and I formed a partnership, an understanding of each other, a deep respect for each other. Hence the reason I know she ran to my bedroom window when she was attacked by a mountain lion in 2013, spent some time healing up from those wounds. Really started to click with each other in the barrel pen and after a lesson she urinated straight blood, found she not only had a bladder stone but kidney stones. After doing research and finding there isnt' much out there put her on herbs for her kidneys, essential oils, bio-scan, PRAYED a lot. Kidneys looked good enough to have the bladderstone removed. Had a set back this last week with her but looking like its a bladder infection and not her kidneys not a stone in the bladder.
Days when I think "I'm too dang old for this" I remember that I'm too dang old to quit on them now.
Your dedication to your kids always makes my heart happy 
Thank you Chandler'sMom....my momma taught me to love hard, love well, and love long.
| |
| | |
 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | run n rate - 2016-08-11 12:56 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2016-08-11 7:59 PM
run n rate - 2016-08-10 11:36 AM
Unfortunately for my bank account my momma didn't raise no quitter, LOL!!!
I don't have anything running at a super high level, just local stuff and a trip to Pendleton 4th of July race every now and then. For me my horses are family, I'm 51, I do not have kids, my horses really are my "children" so to speak. My 15 year old gelding had some foot issues on and off, spent way more than he is probably worth on paper to get him sorted out and on the right track. My big mare is an assortment of issues, blew up in the trailer for some reason, got an infection in the hock joint, was on and off lame over the next 2 years, had just gotten her figured out and sound and then she started doing weird stuff with her head, rubbing to the point of almost falling down, standing with her head on the ground inbetween her front feet, couldn't stand a halter to even be put on, lunging and complete melt down when my fiance insisted she was just naughty and I tried to ride her. She was terrified and shaking. Finally got a diagnosis of head shakers syndrome, have tried several things all which gave us some results and finally settled on Cur-ost and it has been a blessing for her. We had been at this between the hock and the head shakers since 2011.
And then there is CC, she found she not only was good at bucking but that she liked it, bucked me off 3 times, the last one fractured my knee cap, broke 5 ribs and bruised my heart. Life was a constant "what is going to happen today?" with her, then she ran into a tractor in 2011 and fractured her patella . Spent 10 months handwalking, first in straight lines in the pastures, then over cavelettis, then up and down hills. She came back sound and the biggest thing was thru all of that she and I formed a partnership, an understanding of each other, a deep respect for each other. Hence the reason I know she ran to my bedroom window when she was attacked by a mountain lion in 2013, spent some time healing up from those wounds. Really started to click with each other in the barrel pen and after a lesson she urinated straight blood, found she not only had a bladder stone but kidney stones. After doing research and finding there isnt' much out there put her on herbs for her kidneys, essential oils, bio-scan, PRAYED a lot. Kidneys looked good enough to have the bladderstone removed. Had a set back this last week with her but looking like its a bladder infection and not her kidneys not a stone in the bladder.
Days when I think "I'm too dang old for this" I remember that I'm too dang old to quit on them now.
Your dedication to your kids always makes my heart happy
Thank you Chandler'sMom....my momma taught me to love hard, love well, and love long.
And that's what made your momma a special lady.
If only more mommas taught those things in this day and age. . . . | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: KS | chicks2 - 2016-08-10 6:12 PM
RunNbarrels - 2016-08-10 11:45 AM
daisycake123 - 2016-08-10 6:10 AM
send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme
I had this exact thought also.
Thanks everyone. I expected a few responses but wow, I'm clearly not alone here.
We've already had and treated EPM, recovered. That was just a bump in the road. I won't do another blood test, the time we treated him it came back negative, yet he had classic EPM symptoms and had phenominal response to treatment. Those blood tests have enough false negatives and positives that it's about 50/50, so which do you know to believe.
Last vet was sure he had ulcers, scoped him and had a grade 1, nothing bad. Now the lyme issue is interesting, what are the symptoms associated with lyme, does it seem like EPM?
I really don't have that much money in this guy and I am not a trainer, so buying one I've got to train, or even finish is out of the question.....that's what trainers are for. Right now I've got about 1/2 of the money in him I'd have to spend on one that I could ride, (I'm OK but I'm not June Holman ) and is sound. Add to that the fuel to go look, the vet checks, cuz I might go through 1 or 2 before I find one with few enough issues to take the chance. Folks never believe when I invite them to let me know up front what's wrong, .... we will find it. And I do, and then it's just not pleasant.
When he first was diagnosed my cousin told me about this Streakin' Six horse. Sounded great, drove about 2 hours to try him. Seemed smooth, wanted to work, but clearly not getting in the ground. The lady proudly proclaimed 'he'd never been injected'...yeah, no kidding. The price was great, and I thought maybe a little hock management and we may be good to go. Got him to the vet check, before we even did any diagnostics he had like one leg he was sound on. The thought of going through the search process and all that makes me cringe.
Team ropers love him cuz he's big. But, I'm not sure that's the job for him. He'd make a nice trail horse, and he's a real people horse, loves people, thinks he is a person I think.
Vet suggested a light treatment for the ulcers, get the acid calmed down, then go on NeighLox for maintenance. Injected hocks, they were a little sore and he does have a small amount of arthritis and when he's worked they need to be taken care of. I'm going to put him back to work and watch him, get him so holistic stuff, magnetic blankets, etc. If he relapses, my last ditch effort is a bone scan to pick up hot spots. I think one poster mentioned some findings there after KS.
Oh, and he sits on his feed trough. That apparently is something ulcer horses do, and also horses with back issues do that. Anyone had that symptom?
Just got to love equine addiction!
PSSM! Sitting on things... Back/muscle soreness.... | |
| | |
  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Grippen N Rippen - 2016-08-11 3:26 PM chicks2 - 2016-08-10 6:12 PM RunNbarrels - 2016-08-10 11:45 AM daisycake123 - 2016-08-10 6:10 AM send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme I had this exact thought also. Thanks everyone. I expected a few responses but wow, I'm clearly not alone here. We've already had and treated EPM, recovered. That was just a bump in the road. I won't do another blood test, the time we treated him it came back negative, yet he had classic EPM symptoms and had phenominal response to treatment. Those blood tests have enough false negatives and positives that it's about 50/50, so which do you know to believe. Last vet was sure he had ulcers, scoped him and had a grade 1, nothing bad. Now the lyme issue is interesting, what are the symptoms associated with lyme, does it seem like EPM? I really don't have that much money in this guy and I am not a trainer, so buying one I've got to train, or even finish is out of the question.....that's what trainers are for. Right now I've got about 1/2 of the money in him I'd have to spend on one that I could ride, (I'm OK but I'm not June Holman ) and is sound. Add to that the fuel to go look, the vet checks, cuz I might go through 1 or 2 before I find one with few enough issues to take the chance. Folks never believe when I invite them to let me know up front what's wrong, .... we will find it. And I do, and then it's just not pleasant. When he first was diagnosed my cousin told me about this Streakin' Six horse. Sounded great, drove about 2 hours to try him. Seemed smooth, wanted to work, but clearly not getting in the ground. The lady proudly proclaimed 'he'd never been injected'...yeah, no kidding. The price was great, and I thought maybe a little hock management and we may be good to go. Got him to the vet check, before we even did any diagnostics he had like one leg he was sound on. The thought of going through the search process and all that makes me cringe. Team ropers love him cuz he's big. But, I'm not sure that's the job for him. He'd make a nice trail horse, and he's a real people horse, loves people, thinks he is a person I think. Vet suggested a light treatment for the ulcers, get the acid calmed down, then go on NeighLox for maintenance. Injected hocks, they were a little sore and he does have a small amount of arthritis and when he's worked they need to be taken care of. I'm going to put him back to work and watch him, get him so holistic stuff, magnetic blankets, etc. If he relapses, my last ditch effort is a bone scan to pick up hot spots. I think one poster mentioned some findings there after KS. Oh, and he sits on his feed trough. That apparently is something ulcer horses do, and also horses with back issues do that. Anyone had that symptom? Just got to love equine addiction! PSSM! Sitting on things... Back/muscle soreness....
It can mean any kind of back end pain. My husband's really old retired ranch horse did it. I imagine hocks with him. My son's pony does it some, I think general soreness with him due to age. Hind gut ulcers as well. Run a bag of GastroPLUS through and see if that helps. They do have a money back guarantee. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| wyoming barrel racer - 2016-08-11 9:06 PM
Grippen N Rippen - 2016-08-11 3:26 PM chicks2 - 2016-08-10 6:12 PM RunNbarrels - 2016-08-10 11:45 AM daisycake123 - 2016-08-10 6:10 AM send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme I had this exact thought also. Thanks everyone. I expected a few responses but wow, I'm clearly not alone here. We've already had and treated EPM, recovered. That was just a bump in the road. I won't do another blood test, the time we treated him it came back negative, yet he had classic EPM symptoms and had phenominal response to treatment. Those blood tests have enough false negatives and positives that it's about 50/50, so which do you know to believe. Last vet was sure he had ulcers, scoped him and had a grade 1, nothing bad. Now the lyme issue is interesting, what are the symptoms associated with lyme, does it seem like EPM? I really don't have that much money in this guy and I am not a trainer, so buying one I've got to train, or even finish is out of the question.....that's what trainers are for. Right now I've got about 1/2 of the money in him I'd have to spend on one that I could ride, (I'm OK but I'm not June Holman ) and is sound. Add to that the fuel to go look, the vet checks, cuz I might go through 1 or 2 before I find one with few enough issues to take the chance. Folks never believe when I invite them to let me know up front what's wrong, .... we will find it. And I do, and then it's just not pleasant. When he first was diagnosed my cousin told me about this Streakin' Six horse. Sounded great, drove about 2 hours to try him. Seemed smooth, wanted to work, but clearly not getting in the ground. The lady proudly proclaimed 'he'd never been injected'...yeah, no kidding. The price was great, and I thought maybe a little hock management and we may be good to go. Got him to the vet check, before we even did any diagnostics he had like one leg he was sound on. The thought of going through the search process and all that makes me cringe. Team ropers love him cuz he's big. But, I'm not sure that's the job for him. He'd make a nice trail horse, and he's a real people horse, loves people, thinks he is a person I think. Vet suggested a light treatment for the ulcers, get the acid calmed down, then go on NeighLox for maintenance. Injected hocks, they were a little sore and he does have a small amount of arthritis and when he's worked they need to be taken care of. I'm going to put him back to work and watch him, get him so holistic stuff, magnetic blankets, etc. If he relapses, my last ditch effort is a bone scan to pick up hot spots. I think one poster mentioned some findings there after KS. Oh, and he sits on his feed trough. That apparently is something ulcer horses do, and also horses with back issues do that. Anyone had that symptom? Just got to love equine addiction! PSSM! Sitting on things... Back/muscle soreness....
The hind gut ulcers are interesting. I"ve run 5 GastroGard tubes through him and will be starting a maintenance program. He's only mildly hock sore. However, I'm not ruling anything out. I'm a believer in technology, and have seen as much spend on remedies of a 'suspected issue' than just paying for the technology. Although I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed now that I sent him back to work, I believe in a month or so, he'll relapse. I'm going to do a bone scan to pick up hot spots at that point. I believe there is something else going on in the back/hip, we've just got to find it. It could be barrel career ending, but at least I'll know.
| |
| | |
| I gave up when I got tired of fixing him and winning back the money I fixed him with only to have to go back and do it again. Turned out, as super as he was (and he really was SUPER), that wasn't fun. I sold him for a good amount and they knew all issues and were going to fix him, or at least had the money to fix him for awhile and go spend more.
I never regretted selling once.
great comment from quickdraw worth repeating ....... Horses are too cheap these days and the vets are too high.
| |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| Thanks. quickdraw is clearly the hand I am not. My guy was 'cheap', waaay, cheap for his breeding. As I joke..... bought him for a song, but could have bought the Opera House for what I've spent. Those of you who are young enough, and talented enough to buy, try, train them, I applaud you....and envy you. I'm not that person. They have to be point and kick for me. However, thanks so much everyong for your input.
| |
| | |
Location: in the ozone | Grippen N Rippen - 2016-08-11 3:26 PM
chicks2 - 2016-08-10 6:12 PM
RunNbarrels - 2016-08-10 11:45 AM
daisycake123 - 2016-08-10 6:10 AM
send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme
I had this exact thought also.
Thanks everyone. I expected a few responses but wow, I'm clearly not alone here.
We've already had and treated EPM, recovered. That was just a bump in the road. I won't do another blood test, the time we treated him it came back negative, yet he had classic EPM symptoms and had phenominal response to treatment. Those blood tests have enough false negatives and positives that it's about 50/50, so which do you know to believe.
Last vet was sure he had ulcers, scoped him and had a grade 1, nothing bad. Now the lyme issue is interesting, what are the symptoms associated with lyme, does it seem like EPM?
I really don't have that much money in this guy and I am not a trainer, so buying one I've got to train, or even finish is out of the question.....that's what trainers are for. Right now I've got about 1/2 of the money in him I'd have to spend on one that I could ride, (I'm OK but I'm not June Holman ) and is sound. Add to that the fuel to go look, the vet checks, cuz I might go through 1 or 2 before I find one with few enough issues to take the chance. Folks never believe when I invite them to let me know up front what's wrong, .... we will find it. And I do, and then it's just not pleasant.
When he first was diagnosed my cousin told me about this Streakin' Six horse. Sounded great, drove about 2 hours to try him. Seemed smooth, wanted to work, but clearly not getting in the ground. The lady proudly proclaimed 'he'd never been injected'...yeah, no kidding. The price was great, and I thought maybe a little hock management and we may be good to go. Got him to the vet check, before we even did any diagnostics he had like one leg he was sound on. The thought of going through the search process and all that makes me cringe.
Team ropers love him cuz he's big. But, I'm not sure that's the job for him. He'd make a nice trail horse, and he's a real people horse, loves people, thinks he is a person I think.
Vet suggested a light treatment for the ulcers, get the acid calmed down, then go on NeighLox for maintenance. Injected hocks, they were a little sore and he does have a small amount of arthritis and when he's worked they need to be taken care of. I'm going to put him back to work and watch him, get him so holistic stuff, magnetic blankets, etc. If he relapses, my last ditch effort is a bone scan to pick up hot spots. I think one poster mentioned some findings there after KS.
Oh, and he sits on his feed trough. That apparently is something ulcer horses do, and also horses with back issues do that. Anyone had that symptom?
Just got to love equine addiction!
PSSM! Sitting on things... Back/muscle soreness....
I am surprised no one else has mentioned this (maybe I am blind & missed it) - but I would get this horse tested for PSSM type 1 & 2 | |
| | |
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Did you ever test this horse for PSSM 1 or 2? Anxitious to hear what you found out as I went through something similar and was at the point of giving up when I found she had type 2 | |
| | |
Veteran
Posts: 138
| Racer4eva - 2016-08-11 7:47 AM
Had a well bred mare like that. Got her as a 3 yr old, went thru all the firsts, did a ton with her. Then something happened (she was 7). Started bucking at a lope and off at the trot. 1st vet tested for lyme and thought stifles. Neg lyme and blocked and injected stifles(ended up being off for 5-6 months due to cruddy boarding situation before injecting stifles). Nothing. 2nd vet said maybe lymes or issues with her ovaries. Lymes neg and internal ultrasound showed everything normal. Next step would have been to take her to big vet clinic. Unfortunately not made of money plus living in one of the most expensive areas and having to board meant not being able to. So put her up as broodmare sound only for sale. Thankfully someone in middle of country bought her and shes living life in a pasture and be bred. I miss her all the time, she was my princess, but it was hard walking past her not knowing what was wrong and watching her face when i grabbed my other guy to work. (she loved to do stuff and work) So at least i know shes ok and am friends with new owners on fb. (shes 8 this year when she sold)
I am really surprised that you didn't have her five panel tested. Hopefully her new owners have done that before breeding her. PSSM can show up between 4 and 7 in a lot of horses. Around the time they start being into regular work. Some of the signs of it are bucking at the lope and looking like they have stifle issues.
My mare I got as a 4 year old, she passed her PPE, but I didn't have her 5-panel tested. I am not 100% sure if her results would have changed my mind or not. I had already been leasing her for 6 months and was very attached. The summer of her 5 year old year she started acting oddly. She would be dead lame one day, and then a day or two later would be totally sound. Had the vet out a couple of times, but each time she was sound by the time the vet was able to come out. We couldn't make her lame no matter what we did. Vet thought she was going through growing pains as she had jumped up an inch behind and that her stifles might be bothering her. That was always where the lameness seemed to be located. Other things I noticed was that we had lots, and lots of issues at the lope including bucking. She had a hard time picking up her back feet to be cleaned out, and her butt muscles always seemed rock hard. She would also park out like a TWH after long trail rides or particularly hard lessons. That winter she got really, really bad. Finally, one of my friends suggested that I have her tested for PSSM. The test came back positive. I switched her to the PSSM diet, and it was like i had a whole new horse. Our training has progressed by leaps and bounds, we are loping without issue (well mostly, she still likes to throw in a buck from time to time), and have had two successful show seasons.
5-panel testing will forever more be part of my PPE. I almost bought another horse this summer, and then he started to act a bit symptomatic. I ran away from that deal after looking up his bloodlines. Dreamfinder is well known for passing on PSSM in the Appaloosa world, and this guy's sire was also HYPP N/H.
PSSM is not cheap, or easy, to manage. The diet requires lots of Vitamin E, which can be very pricey, as well as oil, magnesium, no sugar or extra starch in their grain, no grass or very little grass depending upon how symptomatic they are, exercise as frequently as possible up to 7 days a week, long warm up and cool downs, and can't be stalled for more than 12 hours a day. For me the biggest drawback to managing her care is that I can't just board at any barn, I have to board at a barn with dry lots and that is willing to feed her combination of grain, oil, and supplements twice a day.
However, I am still very attached to her, so for me it is worth it. | |
| | |
 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | Take mine worth a grain of salt, as I am just a local jackpotter. I have a nice little mare that runs 2D-3D. She's not bred amazing. She's a bit short for my taste and not put together perfectly. But she is my club footed nag, she's consistent, and she's fun.
Now I can't say that I wouldn't be willing to search for answers and put money out to get her sound, if she came up lame. But, there are a lot of nice horses out there. I would just set a limit and breed her if I hit the top.
My husband on the other hand would probably sell everything we own to help her. He doesn't ride any more. Has other hobbies. But that little mare is special to him and he has made it clear that he would do just about anything to keep her happy and healthy.
Nobody can tell you what to do. Everyone can give their opinions and experiences and new ailments to search. But in the end, how much do you really want to sink in to him without even knowing what you're looking for? Why not buy something you can have fun with now and not have to worry if he's going to come undone again? | |
| | |
 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Sitting on things can also mean they need thier trochanteric bursas injected. Bursitis can be more painful than a joint that needs injected. | |
| | |
Veteran
Posts: 264
| I've been in your shoes, it's not fun. I "gave up" right before I did a bone scan, sent him to pasture to be a lawn ornament. Started trying horses and ended up realizing that every horse had some type of issue or maintenance. Why not put the money towards the horse I already own and trust?
Pulled him out of pasture and headed to the vet.
Three years searching for answers, I finally did the bone scan. While it did confirm some of our suspicions, we found some other issues and had a road map of what needed to be done. Nine months later I ran him again, went right into placing in 1d/2d.
I guess at the end of the day you need to ask yourself how emotionally invested are you? I couldn't sell this particular horse, so having that in the back of my mind did push me to want to figure out the problem. | |
| | |
Veteran
Posts: 171
| OMG... Very interesting post.
Remember no one knows your horse better than you and only you know your situation.
Listen to your gut.
Find a trusted vet and if they refer you on... say for an MRI...and money allows go for it.
Good luck | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| canchaserdelux - 2016-12-28 9:00 PM
OMG... Very interesting post.
Remember no one knows your horse better than you and only you know your situation.
Listen to your gut.
Find a trusted vet and if they refer you on... say for an MRI...and money allows go for it.
Good luck
Agree with this. My horse has been lame since spring of 2015. Been to 4 different vets, telling me it's his coffin joint, his hocks, his SI joint.. Finally did an MRI and it's navicular. It's hard knowing he'll never be sound to run barrels again but the peace of mind that comes from knowing what's wrong with him is worth it. | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 615
Location: Wyoming | I have one with a mystery lameness in her left front. She's seen the best vets in Texas, has had the entire leg xrayed, ultrasounded, lameness locator ect. The only time she blocked sound on that leg was with the ulnar nerve blocked but couldn't find a reason why.. Next step was an mri and I was already done spending money. She was still working awesome even with a gimp, I ended up turning her out for the next six months to see if that will help.
Edited by perfectturns 2016-12-29 12:06 AM
| |
| |
| |
Folks on-line