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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
  
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Can anyone walk me through the very basics, from procedure to approximate costs to flush a mare with twin embryos? Bred mare could carry one and recip could carry the other...
This is all assuming that mare checks in foal at 16 day ultra-sound tomorrow. I plan to ask the vet, but I kinda wanted to be up to speed when I talked to him about it. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I'm not sure on costs but I do know you run a very god risk of loosing both embryos in the process. | |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Serenity06 - 2017-05-22 10:46 AM
I'm not sure on costs but I do know you run a very god risk of loosing both embryos in the process.
This is what I'm afraid of. We know she double ovulated, so assuming that she settled, there is a good chance of twins, and we will have to pinch one tomorrow :(
I asked because I know the stallion owner will issue up to two breeders certificates...and I do have access to recip mares, but non have been prepped, since this wasn't a plan. So I'm mostly just day dreaming... | |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| The second embryo, if there is one, will need to be pinched. No option to pull it at this point. | |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Whiteboy - 2017-05-22 10:55 AM
The second embryo, if there is one, will need to be pinched. No option to pull it at this point.
See! Saved me from wasting my vet's time with an unnecessary question :) | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Couldn't you flush both and put them in two different recip mares? | |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Barnmom - 2017-05-22 1:34 PM Couldn't you flush both and put them in two different recip mares?
They could have done that on Day 8. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | RockinGR - 2017-05-22 10:24 AM
Can anyone walk me through the very basics, from procedure to approximate costs to flush a mare with twin embryos? Bred mare could carry one and recip could carry the other...
This is all assuming that mare checks in foal at 16 day ultra-sound tomorrow. I plan to ask the vet, but I kinda wanted to be up to speed when I talked to him about it.
Like already said, embryos have to be flushed around day 7-8. By day 16, you are too late and will have to pinch one if she has twins.
Hypothetically if you were around day 7, I am not sure how successful it is to flush a mare and put one back into the same mare and take another one out. Usually what people do is flush the first embryo, confirm a heart beat, and then breed to carry for the second one. But even then, you run the risk of putting yourself into a bind if the recip loses the embryo and you've already got the donor mare carrying past the time to flush her again.
Basic procedure so the mare is bred, monitored for ovulation, then on day 7 she is lavaged and it is filtered through and embryos are looked for under a microscope.
Embryos that are collected are transferred into recipient mares that are synced with the donor (at the same stage of diestrus at this point, so 7 days post ovulation) either on site if there's a herd or shipped to a recip facility.
Once transferred, the recipients are checked around day 15 to look for a pregnancy. If they are pregnant, they are checked again for heartbeats around day 25.
The approximate cost from start to finish for one embryo can be up to 4000+. Some people can get it done cheaper if they didnt have a lot of mare care costs but breeding expenses add up fast. It's not outrageous to invest over $1000 just to get the mare AIed. Not even counting the ET part which is usually another 2500-3000 on top of that. | |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| From my experience, if there are twins at 16 days, I would wait to pinch. Many times the mare will absorb one of the embryos, and there is less chance that she will either keep both or absorb both. I recently had a mare with a 13 and 14 day pregnancy that were right beside eachother. Pinching one was not a good option. So we rechecked at 24 days and found one pregnancy with a heartbeat. But there are cases where the mare will keep both. I also had another mare, who has a history of double-ovulating and a dam who actually had twins, that checked with twins and both had a heartbeat. My vet pinched one, but she also lost the other. This is the first time that I've ever had to pinch one with my mares, every other time when they have two embryos they've always absorbed one.
There are so many variables though, so I would see what your vet finds via ultrasound. I think some are more comfortable pinching than others, and they all seem to have their own protocol for how to manage twins. Hopefully your mare only has one and you won't even have to deal with it! | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Jenbabe - 2017-05-22 10:48 PM From my experience, if there are twins at 16 days, I would wait to pinch. Many times the mare will absorb one of the embryos, and there is less chance that she will either keep both or absorb both. I recently had a mare with a 13 and 14 day pregnancy that were right beside eachother. Pinching one was not a good option. So we rechecked at 24 days and found one pregnancy with a heartbeat. But there are cases where the mare will keep both. I also had another mare, who has a history of double-ovulating and a dam who actually had twins, that checked with twins and both had a heartbeat. My vet pinched one, but she also lost the other. This is the first time that I've ever had to pinch one with my mares, every other time when they have two embryos they've always absorbed one. There are so many variables though, so I would see what your vet finds via ultrasound. I think some are more comfortable pinching than others, and they all seem to have their own protocol for how to manage twins. Hopefully your mare only has one and you won't even have to deal with it!
^^ This ^^
? Wait to pinch one. Most times mother nature will correct it on it's own. Just re-check in a couple weeks. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | ThreeCorners - 2017-05-23 5:20 AM
Jenbabe - 2017-05-22 10:48 PM From my experience, if there are twins at 16 days, I would wait to pinch. Many times the mare will absorb one of the embryos, and there is less chance that she will either keep both or absorb both. I recently had a mare with a 13 and 14 day pregnancy that were right beside eachother. Pinching one was not a good option. So we rechecked at 24 days and found one pregnancy with a heartbeat. But there are cases where the mare will keep both. I also had another mare, who has a history of double-ovulating and a dam who actually had twins, that checked with twins and both had a heartbeat. My vet pinched one, but she also lost the other. This is the first time that I've ever had to pinch one with my mares, every other time when they have two embryos they've always absorbed one. There are so many variables though, so I would see what your vet finds via ultrasound. I think some are more comfortable pinching than others, and they all seem to have their own protocol for how to manage twins. Hopefully your mare only has one and you won't even have to deal with it!
^^ This ^^
? Wait to pinch one. Most times mother nature will correct it on it's own. Just re-check in a couple weeks.
I bred my Pritzi dash daughter to Slick by Design and she twined. and I mean perfectly... We waited to pinch one around 30 days but they grew at the same rate.... ended up having to kick both out and start all over again... Checking her in a week to see if shes in foal
Good post though, im gathering some information from here! | |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Well, good news all around!
My Goldfingers grand-daughter checked IN-FOAL to Palo Duro Cat, with only one embryo! So my questions were all for naught, but I'm one happy mare owner, as even the vet (a great repro vet) was surprised to find her in foal. She is 20 this year, and only had one baby before, 10 years ago. She had fluid in her uterus when she ovulated, and so we took some measures to take care of that, but it all hurt her odds of being in foal. But, sure enough, 16 days, everything looks great! My husband's mare was confirmed 17 days in foal to Hired Gun as well. We go back at 35 days to check for a heart beat. It was a great morning! | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | RockinGR - 2017-05-23 1:30 PM
Well, good news all around!
My Goldfingers grand-daughter checked IN-FOAL to Palo Duro Cat, with only one embryo! So my questions were all for naught, but I'm one happy mare owner, as even the vet (a great repro vet) was surprised to find her in foal. She is 20 this year, and only had one baby before, 10 years ago. She had fluid in her uterus when she ovulated, and so we took some measures to take care of that, but it all hurt her odds of being in foal. But, sure enough, 16 days, everything looks great! My husband's mare was confirmed 17 days in foal to Hired Gun as well. We go back at 35 days to check for a heart beat. It was a great morning!
Congratulations all the way around. I'm jealous of your PDC breeding---I have just always loved that stud's looks. Something about him. . . | |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Chandler's Mom - 2017-05-24 12:10 AM
RockinGR - 2017-05-23 1:30 PM
Well, good news all around!
My Goldfingers grand-daughter checked IN-FOAL to Palo Duro Cat, with only one embryo! So my questions were all for naught, but I'm one happy mare owner, as even the vet (a great repro vet) was surprised to find her in foal. She is 20 this year, and only had one baby before, 10 years ago. She had fluid in her uterus when she ovulated, and so we took some measures to take care of that, but it all hurt her odds of being in foal. But, sure enough, 16 days, everything looks great! My husband's mare was confirmed 17 days in foal to Hired Gun as well. We go back at 35 days to check for a heart beat. It was a great morning!
Congratulations all the way around. I'm jealous of your PDC breeding---I have just always loved that stud's looks. Something about him. . .
I'm super excited, though he wasn't who I originally booked her to. She was booked to Shiner's Dually and he wasn't available for collection on the day we needed. I was offered PDC and I took it. Baby will probably be a midget tho...my mare is barely 15hh if she stands up REAAAAAAL tall, and PDC is 14hh. But, I like short horses, so it's all good, LOL. | |
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