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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
 
Location: Saskatchewan | Congrats on placing!
While I know that Red is a big hefty type, I still think he could stand to lose a fair bit of weight. His turns were clean but he just didn't fire as hard as he probably could. I think if he had a little less ponch to carry around, you'd see a big change.
My Squiggo is the same sort of horse, she might even be heavier in build, but even she is capable of slimming out and getting rid of her belly (with lots of work and a diet). | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
 
Location: North Dakota | spitzh - 2017-06-05 3:54 PM On Red, your leads were incorrect going to the first and second. I think thats the reason why he went past the second, He wasnt ready for it. If you want a little snappier in the turns, he needs to soften up in the ribs a little. He seems stiff in that part of his body. I liked the run but those are the flaws I see. JMO. Im not perfect but from an outsider looking in. :)
But he corrected those leads himself before arriving at the barrel. Being a "finished" horse, I'm not about to cue him for a lead during our run, nor would I have time for that during a run. I think most finished horses end up changing that lead right before they are about to turn the 2nd barrel. Yes, he probably should have been on the correct lead going to the first, but he did change himself (despite tripping) before getting there. I guess I'm not going to be worried about leads with him.
....Did you mean to say "past the first barrel"? He didn't go past the second barrel.
Hmm, as far as softening up in the ribs, he actually bends extremely nice in slow work; rib cage and all.
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | QHriderKE - 2017-06-05 7:11 PM Congrats on placing! While I know that Red is a big hefty type, I still think he could stand to lose a fair bit of weight. His turns were clean but he just didn't fire as hard as he probably could. I think if he had a little less ponch to carry around, you'd see a big change. My Squiggo is the same sort of horse, she might even be heavier in build, but even she is capable of slimming out and getting rid of her belly (with lots of work and a diet).
When he is in great running shape, he is still close to 1300 pounds. He is a big guy. No, he's not in peak running condition right now but this is only his 4th barrel race after having over a year off. It takes time for them to get their running air back. I'm not concerned about his air as that will continue to improve as we haul. I'm just happy to be barrel racing again.
I really appreciate feedback on my riding and what I can do better as a rider -- but I'm really not looking for tips on his fitness. This was already discussed earlier in the thread, and someone always seems to say something when I post critiques (mostly because Red is a big guy and you don't appreciate how stoudt he is unless you see him in person). I'm a new mom with a family, I own my own business and put in 50+ hours every week; there is more to my life than horses and I don't have them at home. Sure, I could have him in better shape. But he's also not fat.
I do the best I can and I am very happy with his current weight.
Maybe I'm just super cranky because I'm tired today. Lack of sleep catches up with a person when you try to "do it all". So I'd love for the weight comments to stop, please.
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Veteran
Posts: 119
Location: NeverLand | r_beau - 2017-06-06 9:51 AM
spitzh - 2017-06-05 3:54 PM On Red, your leads were incorrect going to the first and second. I think thats the reason why he went past the second, He wasnt ready for it. If you want a little snappier in the turns, he needs to soften up in the ribs a little. He seems stiff in that part of his body. I liked the run but those are the flaws I see. JMO. Im not perfect but from an outsider looking in. :)
But he corrected those leads himself before arriving at the barrel. Being a "finished" horse, I'm not about to cue him for a lead during our run, nor would I have time for that during a run. I think most finished horses end up changing that lead right before they are about to turn the 2nd barrel. Yes, he probably should have been on the correct lead going to the first, but he did change himself (despite tripping) before getting there. I guess I'm not going to be worried about leads with him.
....Did you mean to say "past the first barrel"? He didn't go past the second barrel.
Hmm, as far as softening up in the ribs, he actually bends extremely nice in slow work; rib cage and all.
If you are saying he is a "finished" barrel horse, he should know his leads. Its silly for you to say your "I guess I'm not going to be worried about leads with him" to me that is nonsense. Why set him up to fail? and I also agree he seems really stiff in his rib cage/ shoulder. He needs to soften up. Once his rib cage and shoulder soften up I bet you will see a big difference and he wont seem as heavy on his front end. Just my opinion. I am no way perfect. Just what I see. take it or leave it. :) Congrats on placing, that is exciting! | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | FearTheBigGrayHorse - 2017-06-06 10:42 AM r_beau - 2017-06-06 9:51 AM spitzh - 2017-06-05 3:54 PM On Red, your leads were incorrect going to the first and second. I think thats the reason why he went past the second, He wasnt ready for it. If you want a little snappier in the turns, he needs to soften up in the ribs a little. He seems stiff in that part of his body. I liked the run but those are the flaws I see. JMO. Im not perfect but from an outsider looking in. :) But he corrected those leads himself before arriving at the barrel. Being a "finished" horse, I'm not about to cue him for a lead during our run, nor would I have time for that during a run. I think most finished horses end up changing that lead right before they are about to turn the 2nd barrel. Yes, he probably should have been on the correct lead going to the first, but he did change himself (despite tripping) before getting there. I guess I'm not going to be worried about leads with him.
....Did you mean to say "past the first barrel"? He didn't go past the second barrel.
Hmm, as far as softening up in the ribs, he actually bends extremely nice in slow work; rib cage and all.
If you are saying he is a "finished" barrel horse, he should know his leads. Its silly for you to say your "I guess I'm not going to be worried about leads with him" to me that is nonsense. Why set him up to fail? and I also agree he seems really stiff in his rib cage/ shoulder. He needs to soften up. Once his rib cage and shoulder soften up I bet you will see a big difference and he wont seem as heavy on his front end. Just my opinion. I am no way perfect. Just what I see. take it or leave it. : ) Congrats on placing, that is exciting!
Here's a video of Sherry Cervi on Stingray where Stingray changes her lead right before the second barrel, and also actually switched leads back and forth going to the 3rd barrel.
https://youtu.be/FqGi3WfY74w
Obviously, Stingray knows her job very well, yet her leads are not perfect 100% of the time either.
Mo flopped leads too on the way to the 3rd barrel with Mary.
https://youtu.be/vT-PcP0YfLA
So when I say that Red is "finished", I mean that he knows what turn we are making when, so it is HIS JOB to get himself on the correct lead for the turn. And he will. And he did.
I agree that he can tend to be front-endy so that is something I do continually work with him on in slow work.
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I would make sure he at least start for that first barrel in the correct lead. And it's easy to do. Just quarter him and when you take off he should fall into it. After that I'm like you--it's up to them. | |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | yes, okay, sooooooo.......where did you buy your top? lol, seriously | |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| hammer_time - 2017-06-07 4:12 PM
I would make sure he at least start for that first barrel in the correct lead. And it's easy to do. Just quarter him and when you take off he should fall into it. After that I'm like you--it's up to them.
This is my method also. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Since I find you brave for posting, I will give my 2 cents. I commented on the first critique and I still think you're not looking where youre going until he is already facing the other direction. So your body position is telling him straight until he turns and then you're with him. Does that make sense? The other thing I noticed is he comes in oftly stiff and without knowing the horse I don't know if he is stiff or if you could help him. But I personally would like to see you have a little bit of bend into your approach. To be honest, I think that's why hes losing his footing because he is driving in with his shoulder. I am a big believer in a horse following their nose and a big believer if setup right, the easy thing for them to do is to turn tight. JMO. I see you guiding more in the second videos but your hand really only got higher, it didn't seem to really be asking much of anything. I think if nothing else probably is messing up your balance (not that you look off balance but just doesn't seem to have much purpose). If it were me, I would ask him to pickup into his turns and stop letting him kind of dive in so straight and flat. I guess I am not sure I know how to explain it but hopefully it makes some sense.. (red horse). I like that you want to be quiet but you can still be quiet and have certain ques needed.
I do agree though to try and get him into the right lead into first. Makes it a lot easier for him so hes not shifting his weight around. Coming into first you can generally avoid. The rest I leave up to them. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| The gray - I think same comments apply. I think you do a better job setting him up but I think you leading more towards your knee causes him to fall on his front end. I would be coming to my pocket and asking him to sit down and move his shoulders. He is pluggy on backside mainly I am sure from inexperience but I think you could help him out. I also think he needs to work on engaging his hip on the backside. I would do some drills at home, counter bending on the backside and getting him to engage that hip on backside and power out vs drag himself out.
disclaimer... not a trainer. Just observations.  | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Hoofs_in_motion: I just got it at Maurices. It's super soft and comfy. I love it.
Stayceem: Oh, so do you feel like coming into the barrel I'm also looking straight for too long? I was thinking you meant only regarding finishing the turn and looking to the next barrel. Am I understanding you right?
I can agree with what you are saying - that I could still be asking for more bend (on the red horse). I think it's hard for me (mentally) to have contact with his mouth because he really is more of a push-style and so I think I'm more afraid to do anything with that direct rein, because I don't want to cue him too soon to turn.
I didn't realize my arm looked so awkward until I watched my videos, haha. It sure is hard to change old habits when you are trying to do something new.
My grey has the athletic ability to power out. He can do it. It's just a matter of his rider figuring him out. We did a Ryan Lovendahl clinic a little over a month ago, and we have a Jolene Montgomery clinic coming up.
For those who are bored, this is the from the RL clinic. Don't mind the first run through ... he was SO looky at the tires and tarps and everything (and it was literally his first barrel "run" in 2 years). But it shows how snappy he can be after we had been drilling all weekend. It will be nice when we "get it together" consistently and with speed!
https://youtu.be/KiMVpPOuyRc
I seriously need to remind myself that if he can snap around a tire like that, I just need to have him wrap that barrel and snap out!
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| r_beau - 2017-06-08 11:28 AM
Hoofs_in_motion: I just got it at Maurices. It's super soft and comfy. I love it.
Stayceem: Oh, so do you feel like coming into the barrel I'm also looking straight for too long? I was thinking you meant only regarding finishing the turn and looking to the next barrel. Am I understanding you right?
I can agree with what you are saying - that I could still be asking for more bend (on the red horse). I think it's hard for me (mentally) to have contact with his mouth because he really is more of a push-style and so I think I'm more afraid to do anything with that direct rein, because I don't want to cue him too soon to turn.
I didn't realize my arm looked so awkward until I watched my videos, haha. It sure is hard to change old habits when you are trying to do something new.
My grey has the athletic ability to power out. He can do it. It's just a matter of his rider figuring him out. We did a Ryan Lovendahl clinic a little over a month ago, and we have a Jolene Montgomery clinic coming up.
For those who are bored, this is the from the RL clinic. Don't mind the first run through ... he was SO looky at the tires and tarps and everything (and it was literally his first barrel "run" in 2 years). But it shows how snappy he can be after we had been drilling all weekend. It will be nice when we "get it together" consistently and with speed!
https://youtu.be/KiMVpPOuyRc
I seriously need to remind myself that if he can snap around a tire like that, I just need to have him wrap that barrel and snap out!
So when you come into your barrel, I like to sit and when I am at my point to turn which is usually when their hip is level with the barrel, I am looking around. Naturally my body follows. From the video, you don't seem to look to your next barrel until your horse decides to turn. You need to help him out more imo. Your body position is telling him its okay to go straight and past. I wish I knew how to explain it better.
I also understand your concern of having a push style, I have one too. But when I start letting him dive, he gets sloppy and trips and stumbles because his positioning isn't correct coming in. Which I guess is what I am trying to say to you. I hope that's not harsh because boy have I been there. when I watch you videos in the slow mo, I can see his nose tip ever so slightly out, before he comes around, Nose tipped out means he's strung out and shoulder is driving. My gelding was the KING of this move, and I never noticed it. Thank God for clinics!!!
And yes your gray snaps nice around those tires. I cant tell super well from the video but you look like you're pulling more to your pocket at the clinic vs in these runs more to your mid thigh. Just an observation. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | stayceem - 2017-06-08 12:03 PM
So when you come into your barrel, I like to sit and when I am at my point to turn which is usually when their hip is level with the barrel, I am looking around. Naturally my body follows. From the video, you don't seem to look to your next barrel until your horse decides to turn. You need to help him out more imo. Your body position is telling him its okay to go straight and past. I wish I knew how to explain it better. I also understand your concern of having a push style, I have one too. But when I start letting him dive, he gets sloppy and trips and stumbles because his positioning isn't correct coming in. Which I guess is what I am trying to say to you. I hope that's not harsh because boy have I been there. when I watch you videos in the slow mo, I can see his nose tip ever so slightly out, before he comes around, Nose tipped out means he's strung out and shoulder is driving. My gelding was the KING of this move, and I never noticed it. Thank God for clinics!!! And yes your gray snaps nice around those tires. I cant tell super well from the video but you look like you're pulling more to your pocket at the clinic vs in these runs more to your mid thigh. Just an observation.
I certainly don't want to look too soon (and I don't think you are saying to do that) because I don't want to be one of those riders that is "disconnected" from the horse by looking to the next barrel way too soon, but it is a good reminder for me on the first barrel that I do have to be starting to turn with my body for him. Historically, I've had trouble nailing that first barrel and he seemed to get it better when I get my body signals correct and starting "turning" with my body.
I can agree with you on the nose tipped out. It's not much, but it's there.
Good observations on the grey. I can see where my hand is getting too low sometimes (toward my thigh) in my recent video. Ryan had told me to keep my hands a little lower at the clinic ... but I'm taking it too far! This is where it's nice to have a second set of eyes notice things on your video for you. Looking now, I think I had my hand in a better position on Red, but had my hand lower on Shotgun (the grey). Strange how you do different things on different horses without even realizing it.
And whoever said barrel racing was easy ........... 
We've got homework for slow work tonight!
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| r_beau - 2017-06-08 4:03 PM
stayceem - 2017-06-08 12:03 PM
So when you come into your barrel, I like to sit and when I am at my point to turn which is usually when their hip is level with the barrel, I am looking around. Naturally my body follows. From the video, you don't seem to look to your next barrel until your horse decides to turn. You need to help him out more imo. Your body position is telling him its okay to go straight and past. I wish I knew how to explain it better. I also understand your concern of having a push style, I have one too. But when I start letting him dive, he gets sloppy and trips and stumbles because his positioning isn't correct coming in. Which I guess is what I am trying to say to you. I hope that's not harsh because boy have I been there. when I watch you videos in the slow mo, I can see his nose tip ever so slightly out, before he comes around, Nose tipped out means he's strung out and shoulder is driving. My gelding was the KING of this move, and I never noticed it. Thank God for clinics!!! And yes your gray snaps nice around those tires. I cant tell super well from the video but you look like you're pulling more to your pocket at the clinic vs in these runs more to your mid thigh. Just an observation.
I certainly don't want to look too soon (and I don't think you are saying to do that) because I don't want to be one of those riders that is "disconnected" from the horse by looking to the next barrel way too soon, but it is a good reminder for me on the first barrel that I do have to be starting to turn with my body for him. Historically, I've had trouble nailing that first barrel and he seemed to get it better when I get my body signals correct and starting "turning" with my body.
I can agree with you on the nose tipped out. It's not much, but it's there.
Good observations on the grey. I can see where my hand is getting too low sometimes (toward my thigh) in my recent video. Ryan had told me to keep my hands a little lower at the clinic ... but I'm taking it too far! This is where it's nice to have a second set of eyes notice things on your video for you. Looking now, I think I had my hand in a better position on Red, but had my hand lower on Shotgun (the grey). Strange how you do different things on different horses without even realizing it.
And whoever said barrel racing was easy ........... We've got homework for slow work tonight!
It is hard to explain but if I were to try to gauge is (angle isn't ideal) but I would start turning my body and opening my rein to look around at 42 seconds on your video. You aren't starting to look until about a good stride and a half past at 45 seconds. (it was easier for me in slowmo LOL).
And yes the nose isn't much and it wasn't much on mine either. No one else noticed it and it took the clinician a day or two to see it but it has made a world of difference for us. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Which is exactly why I put all my videos into slow-mo! So much easier to break it down and see what's going on. | |
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