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Veteran
Posts: 107
| How does everyone else teach their horse to hold their head/frame so beautifully collected? My horse know what collection is and she gives to the bit vertically and laterally, etc. And I have been working on collecting her for a month now, and she will tuck her head, and then as soon as I release the pressure for doing what I want she 'un-tucks' her chin. Any tips on how I can make her stay collected up?? | |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Collection only comes from a horse reaching under themselves and lifting the back. You can't teach a horse anything other that to tuck their nose in by hangin on their mouth.
Trot poles, and raised trot poles, backing up, alternating squeezes with your legs for the opposite hind(so left hind foot comes off the ground, you flex your right calf to get a more energetic stride, not necessarily longer or quicker). Use your seat, legs, weight to encourage really marching forward. And all of it can be done on a loose rein.
As a horse starts to use themselves, their back and to some degree head will come up. And as they get stronger past that, their nose comes in. If the poll is not the highest point on the horse, you're doing it wrong.
Or you can just hang a curb with a wicked port in their mouth. The back end will be trailing, they'll be hollow and building all the wrong sorts of muscle, eventually hurting themselves, but by god they'll tuck that nose in. | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
 
| Collection comes from engaging the rear end and riding the horse into the bridle. Soft supporting hands that channel the energy but don’t force it into one position or another. Where the horses head is really isn’t important IMO. If the shoulders are lifting, yes the head will drop most of the time, just due to the mechanics of movement, however the poll should still be the high point so the horse is moving uphill, not downhill. The head position shouldn’t be the focus though.
It’s really easy if you focus on their face to end up with a horse who’s not actually engaging his hind end and just tucking his nose to get away from the pressure on his face, typically dumping on his front end, the complete opposite of what we really want - driving off the hind.
For a barrel horse who’s got a balanced build and is a good mover in general, I don’t worry too much about it. I want them moving forward in front of my leg, I want their face soft when I ask for it, and I want to be able to move shoulders and hips.
Edited by OhMax 2017-11-20 6:37 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| hannahbug - 2017-11-20 6:32 AM
Collection only comes from a horse reaching under themselves and lifting the back. You can't teach a horse anything other that to tuck their nose in by hangin on their mouth.
Trot poles, and raised trot poles, backing up, alternating squeezes with your legs for the opposite hind(so left hind foot comes off the ground, you flex your right calf to get a more energetic stride, not necessarily longer or quicker). Use your seat, legs, weight to encourage really marching forward. And all of it can be done on a loose rein.
As a horse starts to use themselves, their back and to some degree head will come up. And as they get stronger past that, their nose comes in. If the poll is not the highest point on the horse, you're doing it wrong.
Or you can just hang a curb with a wicked port in their mouth. The back end will be trailing, they'll be hollow and building all the wrong sorts of muscle, eventually hurting themselves, but by god they'll tuck that nose in.
Okay, I always try and make sure shoulder is up, because usually if the front end is elevated the back end has no choice but to follow and not "swing around" or be trailing in every which direction. So I'm just going to keep focusing on driving her under herself and keeping the shoulder up, instead of having a pretty headset.
Yes that's exactly what I DON'T want to do is hang on her mouth with a huge shanked bit  | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| OhMax - 2017-11-20 6:35 AM
Collection comes from engaging the rear end and riding the horse into the bridle. Soft supporting hands that channel the energy but don’t force it into one position or another. Where the horses head is really isn’t important IMO. If the shoulders are lifting, yes the head will drop most of the time, just due to the mechanics of movement, however the poll should still be the high point so the horse is moving uphill, not downhill. The head position shouldn’t be the focus though.
It’s really easy if you focus on their face to end up with a horse who’s not actually engaging his hind end and just tucking his nose to get away from the pressure on his face, typically dumping on his front end, the complete opposite of what we really want - driving off the hind.
For a barrel horse who’s got a balanced build and is a good mover in general, I don’t worry too much about it. I want them moving forward in front of my leg, I want their face soft when I ask for it, and I want to be able to move shoulders and hips.
I've never payed attention to see if my horse's poll is the highest portion or not, great tip. | |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I am working on this with my mare and although it isn't perfect it is getting better. I generally hold my reins in a position where they're is contact without pressure. So I ride her around where if she is strung out, there will some contact and I continue using my feet, legs and seat to get her to collect. When collected its a droopy rein. I like my horse to work on the bit a little bit, some don't prefer that but I do as long as they're not hanging on me and are responsive. | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Prairie Rouge - 2017-11-20 1:36 AM How does everyone else teach their horse to hold their head/frame so beautifully collected? My horse know what collection is and she gives to the bit vertically and laterally, etc. And I have been working on collecting her for a month now, and she will tuck her head, and then as soon as I release the pressure for doing what I want she 'un-tucks' her chin. Any tips on how I can make her stay collected up??
I wouldn't worry about her head.
If you put her body parts in the right place (butt under her) then the head will naturally be "collected" too. I like doing lots of circles to help a horse learn how to reach under them and carry their body correctly. Make sure you are driving her with your seat and legs.
And remember that all horses have different conformation. On one horse it may be very easy for them to break at the poll -- on others, it may be hard for them just based on how they are put together.
If you are having trouble grasping what her body is doing, I highly recommend taking some English lessons or some reining lessons.
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Prairie Rouge - 2017-11-20 8:18 AM
OhMax - 2017-11-20 6:35 AM
Collection comes from engaging the rear end and riding the horse into the bridle. Soft supporting hands that channel the energy but don’t force it into one position or another. Where the horses head is really isn’t important IMO. If the shoulders are lifting, yes the head will drop most of the time, just due to the mechanics of movement, however the poll should still be the high point so the horse is moving uphill, not downhill. The head position shouldn’t be the focus though.
It’s really easy if you focus on their face to end up with a horse who’s not actually engaging his hind end and just tucking his nose to get away from the pressure on his face, typically dumping on his front end, the complete opposite of what we really want - driving off the hind.
For a barrel horse who’s got a balanced build and is a good mover in general, I don’t worry too much about it. I want them moving forward in front of my leg, I want their face soft when I ask for it, and I want to be able to move shoulders and hips.
I've never payed attention to see if my horse's poll is the highest portion or not, great tip.
It’ll be slight, don’t get hung up on it. Focus on keeping him in front of your leg and reaching under himself. Light contact in the reins, post the trot, feel the rear leg when you sit and think about sitting just a little bit longer and that leg stretching up and under him. Use your inside leg to push that leg up and into the outside rein. Ride the rear end not the front end, that’s where it all starts, that’s the motor.
As mentioned, ground poles can help with figuring out the feel. Set them so they are spaced for a comfortable working trot. After several trips through, roll each pole out 3-4” and go back through until he’s not clipping. Then roll out again, etc. again, don’t focus on the front end going through, feel that back leg coming up and generating power.
Translates into a horse who can maintain reach around a barrel and drive up under himself to power around the turns. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | hannahbug - 2017-11-20 6:32 AM
Or you can just hang a curb with a wicked port in their mouth. The back end will be trailing, they'll be hollow and building all the wrong sorts of muscle, eventually hurting themselves, but by god they'll tuck that nose in.
This is so sad but true.
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | OhMax - 2017-11-20 10:39 AM Prairie Rouge - 2017-11-20 8:18 AM OhMax - 2017-11-20 6:35 AM Collection comes from engaging the rear end and riding the horse into the bridle. Soft supporting hands that channel the energy but don’t force it into one position or another. Where the horses head is really isn’t important IMO. If the shoulders are lifting, yes the head will drop most of the time, just due to the mechanics of movement, however the poll should still be the high point so the horse is moving uphill, not downhill. The head position shouldn’t be the focus though. It’s really easy if you focus on their face to end up with a horse who’s not actually engaging his hind end and just tucking his nose to get away from the pressure on his face, typically dumping on his front end, the complete opposite of what we really want - driving off the hind. For a barrel horse who’s got a balanced build and is a good mover in general, I don’t worry too much about it. I want them moving forward in front of my leg, I want their face soft when I ask for it, and I want to be able to move shoulders and hips. I've never payed attention to see if my horse's poll is the highest portion or not, great tip. It’ll be slight, don’t get hung up on it. Focus on keeping him in front of your leg and reaching under himself. Light contact in the reins, post the trot, feel the rear leg when you sit and think about sitting just a little bit longer and that leg stretching up and under him. Use your inside leg to push that leg up and into the outside rein. Ride the rear end not the front end, that’s where it all starts, that’s the motor. As mentioned, ground poles can help with figuring out the feel. Set them so they are spaced for a comfortable working trot. After several trips through, roll each pole out 3-4” and go back through until he’s not clipping. Then roll out again, etc. again, don’t focus on the front end going through, feel that back leg coming up and generating power. Translates into a horse who can maintain reach around a barrel and drive up under himself to power around the turns.
Great advice about the poles on the ground...gonna try that one!!!! | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| slacy09 - 2017-11-20 12:20 PM
OhMax - 2017-11-20 10:39 AM Prairie Rouge - 2017-11-20 8:18 AM OhMax - 2017-11-20 6:35 AM Collection comes from engaging the rear end and riding the horse into the bridle. Soft supporting hands that channel the energy but don’t force it into one position or another. Where the horses head is really isn’t important IMO. If the shoulders are lifting, yes the head will drop most of the time, just due to the mechanics of movement, however the poll should still be the high point so the horse is moving uphill, not downhill. The head position shouldn’t be the focus though. It’s really easy if you focus on their face to end up with a horse who’s not actually engaging his hind end and just tucking his nose to get away from the pressure on his face, typically dumping on his front end, the complete opposite of what we really want - driving off the hind. For a barrel horse who’s got a balanced build and is a good mover in general, I don’t worry too much about it. I want them moving forward in front of my leg, I want their face soft when I ask for it, and I want to be able to move shoulders and hips. I've never payed attention to see if my horse's poll is the highest portion or not, great tip. It’ll be slight, don’t get hung up on it. Focus on keeping him in front of your leg and reaching under himself. Light contact in the reins, post the trot, feel the rear leg when you sit and think about sitting just a little bit longer and that leg stretching up and under him. Use your inside leg to push that leg up and into the outside rein. Ride the rear end not the front end, that’s where it all starts, that’s the motor. As mentioned, ground poles can help with figuring out the feel. Set them so they are spaced for a comfortable working trot. After several trips through, roll each pole out 3-4” and go back through until he’s not clipping. Then roll out again, etc. again, don’t focus on the front end going through, feel that back leg coming up and generating power. Translates into a horse who can maintain reach around a barrel and drive up under himself to power around the turns.
Can work in reverse as well. Extending is easier than shortening imo so that’s where I start. You can also make the poles closer together, but be careful they are shortening and continuing to drive off the rear end.
Great for barrel horses IMO as it teaches them to keep driving forward but shorten the step = rate. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Prairie Rouge - 2017-11-20 8:15 AM hannahbug - 2017-11-20 6:32 AM Collection only comes from a horse reaching under themselves and lifting the back. You can't teach a horse anything other that to tuck their nose in by hangin on their mouth. Trot poles, and raised trot poles, backing up, alternating squeezes with your legs for the opposite hind(so left hind foot comes off the ground, you flex your right calf to get a more energetic stride, not necessarily longer or quicker). Use your seat, legs, weight to encourage really marching forward. And all of it can be done on a loose rein. As a horse starts to use themselves, their back and to some degree head will come up. And as they get stronger past that, their nose comes in. If the poll is not the highest point on the horse, you're doing it wrong. Or you can just hang a curb with a wicked port in their mouth. The back end will be trailing, they'll be hollow and building all the wrong sorts of muscle, eventually hurting themselves, but by god they'll tuck that nose in. Okay, I always try and make sure shoulder is up, because usually if the front end is elevated the back end has no choice but to follow and not "swing around" or be trailing in every which direction. So I'm just going to keep focusing on driving her under herself and keeping the shoulder up, instead of having a pretty headset. Yes that's exactly what I DON'T want to do is hang on her mouth with a huge shanked bit
You've got it backwards. If the hip is under them, the shoulder will be up. You as a human can't physically raise or hold up a horse's shoulder. Ride from back to front and quit worrying about frame or headset, which can be a result of collection but are not the cause of collection. | |
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