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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
   
Location: Texas | margoannrodeo - 2017-08-08 11:50 AM
casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 7:29 AM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
which way were you giving those meds? and you were giving 1.5 c of the oral dorm gel and not injectable dorm?
Dermosadan Gel
Not injectable
how were you giving the combo of ace and xylazine? |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | some horses, just like humans can be super sensitive to sedation-meaning the wrong amount may be causing them to be in a certain "plane" of anesthesia-maybe he's too deep into the plane with the dose of meds you've been giving, being stuck in a plane can cause some eradic behavior?? I would strongly recommend a magnesium feed through-we used animed vitacalm (it looks like it might have a new name now) OR omega alpha Chill. The omega alpha chill you give before the event and the animed is fed daily, both had good results. With that said it sounds like the horse has maybe gotten a little worse lately?? Make sure you haven't changed anything-bit, saddle. Those older horses can be really sensitive about saddle fit-particularly a kids saddle-just consider the possiblity of something not feeling right other than the horse just being ornery :0) |
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 Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | LMS - 2017-08-08 1:56 PM some horses, just like humans can be super sensitive to sedation-meaning the wrong amount may be causing them to be in a certain "plane" of anesthesia-maybe he's too deep into the plane with the dose of meds you've been giving, being stuck in a plane can cause some eradic behavior?? I would strongly recommend a magnesium feed through-we used animed vitacalm (it looks like it might have a new name now) OR omega alpha Chill. The omega alpha chill you give before the event and the animed is fed daily, both had good results. With that said it sounds like the horse has maybe gotten a little worse lately?? Make sure you haven't changed anything-bit, saddle. Those older horses can be really sensitive about saddle fit-particularly a kids saddle-just consider the possiblity of something not feeling right other than the horse just being ornery :0)
Absolutley appreciate your out of the box approach, thats usually my first stop. Hes had the same set up with a treeless for the past 4 years. Ive tried various doses (of various meds) and I tend to see the same consistent reaction. I will look into the Chill!
I havent ruled out some of his soundness issues possibly bothering him (but honestly refusing and "ducking" at a walk when asked to walk over a ground pole lol...he shouldnt be that sore when he is literally walking hahaha) 
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 1:55 PM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-08 11:50 AM casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 7:29 AM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
which way were you giving those meds? and you were giving 1.5 c of the oral dorm gel and not injectable dorm?
Dermosadan Gel
Not injectable
how were you giving the combo of ace and xylazine?
Ace (IM and Oral)
Xylazine (IV and IM)
Ace + Xylazine (IV and IM)
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I have a mare who is very anxious and nervous. Couldn't even get her to walk flat-footed. Prancy, jumpy. A young adult is riding her so it wasn't a big problem; more of a pain. She recently was showing signs of ulcers. Along with the ulcer medication, the vet suggested I give her a calming supplement to stop what's causing the ulcers, not just treat it. We picked what LMS suggested--Animed's ViaCalm. It used to be called VitaCalm. It has tryptophan, thiamine, calcium and magnesium in it. I cannot believe the difference in her. It's nothing that anyone else would notice. She doesn't act drugged up. But she is much calmer. We also lunge her a lot in the round pen. If she's sitting around at all, even for just a few days, she gets a little session in the round pen first to take the edge off before we go out to ride. She's doing great. Walks calmly, head down, very relaxed. She's even loading in the trailer now and she used to give us trouble. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | I was told to try Valerian root. A few capsules in his feed an hour or so before event. Have not tried it yet but is cheap and easy. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| Try the ForeCalm by ForeFront Equine! www.forefrontequine.com/sbarnhart |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| You run a bute test yet? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | I am another one that has used Animed's Viacalm. I have a hot, prancy, ornery mare. I tried a couple of other things this past summer - raspberry leaves, Pozzi Relax pellets and they did nothing for her. I decided to try the Viacalm - it's cheap, so nothing to lose. I used it about 3 months and she was really good. Then made the mistake and took her off it and she is back to the prancy, ornery mare stuff. So that has to be the answer for her. I went back and bought another jug of it last week. And it is so cheap it's amazing that it works so well! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| I LOVE herbs...I also agree with using Valerian root. That worked for a horse I had that needed the edge taken off, but still able to completely perform under it. I've also used THE calming cookies, and I LOVE them! But they knocked her out a little more than the Valerian root, and I was just trying to take a little edge off. |
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Location: midwest mama | Have you had his vision checked? |
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | I use Aculife patches on the pole and points on the face!! I can mail patches if anyone wants to try them on a nervous horse!!  |
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