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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
   
Location: Ft Worth TX | Poll: When your in the market for a new horse, what price bracket do you try to stay in? More so speaking towards shopping for registered prospects started around the pattern? Of course there is a lot more to consider but looking for a General range.
Question to reply to: what price range do you ”overlook” on prospects due to being to cheap or to high? |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| This is just my personal opinion. I will overlook a horse that’s started on the pattern less than 2000 because I think something might be wrong. I will also overlook a 7,000 prospect because I don’t have the $$ to gamble 7k on something that might turn out to be a 3D..7,000 FINISHED horse (hope that makes sense). I have gotten into the habit of picking up horses that have been put on the back burner and making them into something that could get a job and be a nice horse and I refuse to price them over 5K. People shouldn’t have to take a loan out for a prospect IMO.
Flame suit prepared. Just my opinion. |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | RoaniePonie11 - 2018-02-01 7:34 AM
This is just my personal opinion. I will overlook a horse that’s started on the pattern less than 2000 because I think something might be wrong. I will also overlook a 7,000 prospect because I don’t have the $$ to gamble 7k on something that might turn out to be a 3D..7,000 FINISHED horse (hope that makes sense). I have gotten into the habit of picking up horses that have been put on the back burner and making them into something that could get a job and be a nice horse and I refuse to price them over 5K. People shouldn’t have to take a loan out for a prospect IMO.
Flame suit prepared. Just my opinion.
I like this thought on pricing. I also believe that you should not have to get a loan on a prospect. The market has been very interesting lately on how people are pricing mediocre bred prospect. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| I actually consider a prospect anything not started on the pattern. Once they are started basically that 2-5yr old range is when a horse can be priced the highest because you don't know if they will turn out or not. Some definitely start dropping in price right after that 3yr old month in December when they run poorly in their first outs. Others become more reasonably priced later in life once they settle into being a D horse.
I always buy to make a profit if sold later. Example almost came home with a nice Ivory James out of a mare that has been bred for barrels and already produced 3 futurity money earners. Owners no sold it to bring it home. They wanted 14k or they were bringing her home. For me that is too much for an Ivory James bred to run barrels....there is no profit to be made if she flops when you start her on the pattern. Plus at that price even if shes decent once started it would still be hard to make a profit on her unless she was a good one. You have to add in your time and expenses. Business wise it just wasn't a smart move.
Like a prospect to me would be a weanling and yearling and I'm willing to pay up to 10K for a nice one that is paid into incentives. I don't want to have to eat anymore than 10k so thats all I gamble with when shopping for babies.
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-02-01 9:14 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| QUALITY, WELL BRED, prospects will bring way more than 7K. Like any other industry, you get what you pay for! Like the ads you see for people looking for a finished 1D , sound, gelding, under 10 years old for 10K budget.  If you want a true finished 1D, you better have 150-200+K to spend. Those horses cost money for a reason. And the top 1D horses were at one time TOP PROPSECTS that probably sold for 15-25k as yearlings/2 year olds. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| FLITASTIC - 2018-02-01 9:10 AM QUALITY, WELL BRED, prospects will bring way more than 7K. Like any other industry, you get what you pay for! Like the ads you see for people looking for a finished 1D , sound, gelding, under 10 years old for 10K budget. If you want a true finished 1D, you better have 150-200+K to spend. Those horses cost money for a reason. And the top 1D horses were at one time TOP PROPSECTS that probably sold for 15-25k as yearlings/2 year olds.
I think this is true....To a select handful of people.
I'll never own nor sell a horse for 150K. Mostly because I'll never be able to afford that, much less a 25K prospect! And if I've trained a true 1D superstar, that horse isn't going anywhere for any amount!
The horse market is INCREDIBLY STUPID - IMO!! People going into serious debt for a horse that will not make them that sort of cash back! There's a reason rodeo horses don't last forever, except a select few. That many races to make 150K breaks them down. Then what do you have if you have a gelding?? Mares, ok, breed em, studs too.
Highlighted horse market, because it's not just barrel racers. TBs are stupid too. 2 Mil for a yearling that doesn't make a race! Eesh...
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Nateracer - 2018-02-01 9:19 AM
FLITASTIC - 2018-02-01 9:10 AM QUALITY, WELL BRED, prospects will bring way more than 7K. Like any other industry, you get what you pay for! Like the ads you see for people looking for a finished 1D , sound, gelding, under 10 years old for 10K budget. If you want a true finished 1D, you better have 150-200+K to spend. Those horses cost money for a reason. And the top 1D horses were at one time TOP PROPSECTS that probably sold for 15-25k as yearlings/2 year olds.
I'll never own nor sell a horse for 150K. Mostly because I'll never be able to afford that, much less a 25K prospect! And if I've trained a true 1D superstar, that horse isn't going anywhere for any amount!
The horse market is INCREDIBLY STUPID - IMO!! People going into serious debt for a horse that will not make them that sort of cash back! There's a reason rodeo horses don't last forever, except a select few. That many races to make 150K breaks them down. Then what do you have if you have a gelding?? Mares, ok, breed em, studs too.
Highlighted horse market, because it's not just barrel racers. TBs are stupid too. 2 Mil for a yearling that doesn't make a race! Eesh...
The ppl that just go out and give 150k rodeo horse don't actually worry about making that money back.
They may run their legs off and treat them like a play day pony tho bc that 150k ain't $hit to them.
For the people buying the 25k prospect its a business and some have worked their way up to the horse world to where they deserve and earned the right to buy the high seller....same for a race horse. Some ppl earned their right to lay down the dollars, others will let a 20k prospect cut a leg on crappy fencing their help was too lazy to fix and not blink an eye over loosing that money. |
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 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | It boils down to priorities. I will not have a $30,000+ horse and an amazing trailer and live in a trailer or old home. Just not how I prioritize, personally. My nice home, car, and discretionary income come before horse expenses. I will never pay over $5k for any horse. It's not a priority to me and its not important to me to be at the top. I buy cheap and underpriced, I train and fix them up and then I sell for profit usually. I can just never understand the people with high dollar horses, humongous trailers, brand new trucks, that have a hotwire fence and live in a trailer. Their decision, not mine. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Depends what level of competition. 1/2D local barrel races, I stay around 5K-10K. Looking for a rodeo prospect $20k. |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-01 8:24 AM
Nateracer - 2018-02-01 9:19 AM
FLITASTIC - 2018-02-01 9:10 AM QUALITY, WELL BRED, prospects will bring way more than 7K. Like any other industry, you get what you pay for! Like the ads you see for people looking for a finished 1D , sound, gelding, under 10 years old for 10K budget. If you want a true finished 1D, you better have 150-200+K to spend. Those horses cost money for a reason. And the top 1D horses were at one time TOP PROPSECTS that probably sold for 15-25k as yearlings/2 year olds.
I'll never own nor sell a horse for 150K. Mostly because I'll never be able to afford that, much less a 25K prospect! And if I've trained a true 1D superstar, that horse isn't going anywhere for any amount!
The horse market is INCREDIBLY STUPID - IMO!! People going into serious debt for a horse that will not make them that sort of cash back! There's a reason rodeo horses don't last forever, except a select few. That many races to make 150K breaks them down. Then what do you have if you have a gelding?? Mares, ok, breed em, studs too.
Highlighted horse market, because it's not just barrel racers. TBs are stupid too. 2 Mil for a yearling that doesn't make a race! Eesh...
The ppl that just go out and give 150k rodeo horse don't actually worry about making that money back.
They may run their legs off and treat them like a play day pony tho bc that 150k ain't $hit to them.
For the people buying the 25k prospect its a business and some have worked their way up to the horse world to where they deserve and earned the right to buy the high seller....same for a race horse. Some ppl earned their right to lay down the dollars, others will let a 20k prospect cut a leg on crappy fencing their help was too lazy to fix and not blink an eye over loosing that money.
I also don’t understand the horse industry in this aspect. Have way more invested then you could ever earn back makes no sense to me personally. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Most have the money to burn that pay these prices, its "play" money. Others are gambling and betting on a big payoff by investing so much. But some have a legit business, they have studied, and know the price point at which they can and can't make a profit.
Lets say you buy a 10K prospect and you can sale it for 20-30k loping a set....thats a 10k profit on something you put 1, 2, or 3 yrs in....its a side hustle...a job. Ppl do makea living doing this, its just not stable and you might eat ramen noodles during certain periods lol People do buy 10K prospects that turn into 100K-150K horses, more get sold in this price range than you think.
Race track ppl buy a 20-100k prospect that might win them up to 300K or even more if they are lucky. Just for some horses to brake their maiden and win a race it can be a 16k-26k purse, it ranges for different states. Track ppl are paying around a $50 and upwards training bill a day, plus vet fees though. They are dropping around 1500-3k a month on training. The average Joe doesn't usually play this game but we have owners who are average, work a 9-5 or plant job....they bought cheap won races and worked their way to where they now earned the right to purchase those high prospects. Also, in most cases they can afford to lose.
Most of these ppl aren't going into debt. They are using that "play" money. People do mortage the farm to buy a good rodeo horse for their kids tho,that I don't agree with but hey sometimes it works out for them. It's all up to you as to how much your willing to gamble. Successful ppl in the horse industry are hustlers and don't lose their bets often when they gamble! |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I prefer to breed my own prospects instead of buying them. It doesn't really save any particular money, but my costs are a bit more spread out so I end up being able to have prospects worth more than 10k that I am particularly proud of and know everything about because I have had them and their mommas both from the get go.
I also sell weanlings in that 7500-10k range often. Someone mentioned paying a good bit to try out an IJ filly for instance. In that instance, spending a bit more on her makes some sense because if she doesn't pan out as a barrel horse, she may still make a really nice broodie for race horses OR barrel horses. A good pedigree preserves breeding value. And yes, take a look at most of your winning horses, not the occasional one that's grade or has a mediocre pedi winning. Most of your top winning horses have winning pedis. Feel the Sting is a great example. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| For a horse started on the pattern I would be looking from 3k to 5k range but for a true prospect I have a hard time spending over $2500. However, I show locally and I will buy medicore bred horses to have fun on which is why I ride. Its a hobby.
Those that spend 150k on a horse I imagine don't always consider recouping. For some, its like buying a boat. They buy it, ride it around, enjoy it but its never gonna "pay for itself." |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| I bought a $2500 prospect back in 2007. She won over $30K lifetime. I spent $1500 on a stud fee (plus associated costs) in 2004 and he has won almost as much - won just under $4K last year alone. No, not in the 1D, but one very competitive in the 2D, and the second is such a consistent 3D that I can almost (almost, but never do) count on several nice checks in a season. I consider that both horses paid me back, even with training costs. My problem with spending more on a prospect is that horses seem born to get hurt, and the more on the line the more likely (for me) that they'll do something permanent before they even see a barrel! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 575
| oija - 2018-02-01 11:41 AM
I prefer to breed my own prospects instead of buying them. It doesn't really save any particular money, but my costs are a bit more spread out so I end up being able to have prospects worth more than 10k that I am particularly proud of and know everything about because I have had them and their mommas both from the get go.
I also sell weanlings in that 7500-10k range often. Someone mentioned paying a good bit to try out an IJ filly for instance. In that instance, spending a bit more on her makes some sense because if she doesn't pan out as a barrel horse, she may still make a really nice broodie for race horses OR barrel horses. A good pedigree preserves breeding value. And yes, take a look at most of your winning horses, not the occasional one that's grade or has a mediocre pedi winning. Most of your top winning horses have winning pedis. Feel the Sting is a great example.
Same. I knew I couldn't afford to outright buy the genetics that I wanted in a 2/3 yo. Breeding worked out for me. Except one came out shorter than I wanted her to! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1515
Location: Illinois | Depends on the bloodlines. For example: I've seen 2 year olds that are riding nice go for $10K with just Dash for Cash on the back end of their papers and they sold fast. I personally wouldn't even be interested in that prospect. I got my 3 year old out of Six Moons Bully and a daughter of Alive N Firen for $5,500 and I thought that was a fair price. She was a little behind on her training, but broke really well. I've seen 3 older siblings of hers sell for over $15K fairly quickly and Lance Graves has a now 3 year old by DTF out of the same dam as mine and he was over $25K as a yearling. He was purchased by Lance & then sold, but they kept him with Lance for his futurity career coming up. Obviously there's a large difference between the studs but clearly the mare power was enough to chose this colt over the various other DTF babies that were available. The dam was a 1D proven mare herself. So my thought process was since she's a mare, there will always be value in breeding her if she were to get hurt or just breed her because she turns out nice. If this were a gelding, I probably would have gone a different route. So for me it also depends on if its a mare, stud, or gelding. I've seen some I've liked go for $3-5K that were geldings with decent lines, something you could be happy going to jackpot on. If I was in the pro rodeo world I'd probably be willing to pay more for a prospect. I typically try to stay under $7K for a prospect generally. Everyone is going to have their own opinions on what they're willing to spend and your location can affect that too. I'm in IL and horse prices here are way different than in other states like Tx, etc. |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | So what price range is to low when looking? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1302
Location: California | The most current horse I sold was a 2D barrel horse just cruising through and I paid $1500 for her as an unstarted 4 year old halter horse. My only other main barrel horse I had was a $12500 Sun Frost horse I bought as a 5 year old who was started on rights and lefts and roping. The most expensive horse I have now that I paid for is a now 3 year old (purchased as a yearling) that I paid $2000. I get a lot of horses given to me or offered to me for dirt cheap due to being green, started late, or being a problem horse. I won't pay much for one now because I just don't have to - I can make or fix what I need to. I don't barrel race much now, mainly rope and start young ones, but majority of my clients don't care how these horses are bred just that they have papers. I have ridden a few horses by a top producing sire and was absolutely not a fan BUT they do have incredible speed. So far my halter horse and half halter horse bred horses have been my absolute favorites to put on the barrels and run (and they cost much less). I am probably an odd ball out though lol. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I think the most I have ever spent on one was $2750 and it was a weanling. Turned out to be a total genetic screw up. Most I have ever sold one for is $4,000. I don't buy in the big league, and I don't try to sell in it either. That's not to say I don't have- or haven't had nice papered stuff. Lots of big named horses really close, own daughters/ sons, but I refuse to ask for the farm on a prospect. Oh, that being said- I have never finished a horse and sold it. If I had them long enough to finish, they stay lol. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Whoop Z Day Z - 2018-02-01 6:31 PM So what price range is to low when looking?
Depends on the age and papers. But of course everyone wants a steal!
There was a Dash Ta Fame gelding the other day on Craigslist for like 2000...Everyone on that post was like...what problems are you inheriting???? He was around 10 I think.
Unless there's a reason that a big name is $700 - owner died, need sold, kind of thing - and it's a weanling...Anything under $1000 is usually where I shy away. Once in a great while there'll be something good at a hometown auction, but otherwise, 1500 and up for weanlings. Big names - 3500 and up most of the time, usually closer to 7500 and up! |
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