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 Go go girl
    
| Put my horse on Magnesium and B1 a few days ago. Anyone ever had it have the opposite affect on a horse? Normally he was unfocused but rode well. Today he was still unfocused, but also chargey and rank. He has never tried to run off or buck before, but today he did both. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | No, I have never had an opposite problem. I really like using Thai-Cal from Finish Line but have used B-1 injectable in the past along with Quiessense from Foxden
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Go go girl
| Maybe I should cut out the Magnesium and just use the B1 then? I looked it up and seems like the magnesium might be the culprit. He does not sedate well for procedures, and magnesium supposedly has a sedative effect from what I have read. Maybe that explains his reaction. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | How common is Thiamine deficiency in horses? Serious question.
Sounds like a shotgun remedy to me. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Try using thiamine 1500mg once a week IM |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Bear - 2018-07-31 5:18 PM How common is Thiamine deficiency in horses? Serious question. Sounds like a shotgun remedy to me.
Doc, this is from way back in my past when I was training. I felt like my very high strung "super hot race bred" colts did very well on a weekly supplement of thiamine. I could see drastic differences in their gate training. We would go from flipping to standing in three weeks time. That said, it didn't show up on the blood work. The way we feed race training colts you shouldn't see any deficiency of B1.
I have a colt that I'm giving it to that's in barrel training he's had terrible Sweet Itch in the past. Giving him 1500mg weekly has really helped him with that issue. The midges now go to the other horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| So this is why i have not tried Mag yet. I have done a load of research and B1 doesn't seem to have had any reactions like this but I read more than 1 article that talked about what exactly the Mag does to calm a horse and that it can actually make them worse if the horse does not mentally respond well to what it has done to their nervous system. It basically doesn't actually calm their minds, it slows their muscles/ reaction times so it actually mentally makes them worse because now they feel like they can't get away or can't express how they are feeling. They compare it to Ace.
I have been giving 1200mg of B1 via a syringe (to make sure she is getting it everyday) with some effects but not a huge improvement. I have seen better improvement with SmartGut Ultra (even on her mood) in two days than with anything else.
Good luck yo. lol.
Ps, tryptophan is proven to calm them, but thats a little much for me for a daily calmer. |
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Go go girl
| RoaniePonie11 - 2018-07-31 7:19 PM So this is why i have not tried Mag yet. I have done a load of research and B1 doesn't seem to have had any reactions like this but I read more than 1 article that talked about what exactly the Mag does to calm a horse and that it can actually make them worse if the horse does not mentally respond well to what it has done to their nervous system. It basically doesn't actually calm their minds, it slows their muscles/ reaction times so it actually mentally makes them worse because now they feel like they can't get away or can't express how they are feeling. They compare it to Ace. I have been giving 1200mg of B1 via a syringe (to make sure she is getting it everyday) with some effects but not a huge improvement. I have seen better improvement with SmartGut Ultra (even on her mood) in two days than with anything else. Good luck yo. lol. Ps, tryptophan is proven to calm them, but thats a little much for me for a daily calmer.
Thats exactly how he felt. Go figure, thought I was doing something good for him! Ugh.... |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| MrsHound - 2018-07-31 9:09 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2018-07-31 7:19 PM So this is why i have not tried Mag yet. I have done a load of research and B1 doesn't seem to have had any reactions like this but I read more than 1 article that talked about what exactly the Mag does to calm a horse and that it can actually make them worse if the horse does not mentally respond well to what it has done to their nervous system. It basically doesn't actually calm their minds, it slows their muscles/ reaction times so it actually mentally makes them worse because now they feel like they can't get away or can't express how they are feeling. They compare it to Ace. I have been giving 1200mg of B1 via a syringe (to make sure she is getting it everyday) with some effects but not a huge improvement. I have seen better improvement with SmartGut Ultra (even on her mood) in two days than with anything else. Good luck yo. lol. Ps, tryptophan is proven to calm them, but thats a little much for me for a daily calmer.
Thats exactly how he felt. Go figure, thought I was doing something good for him! Ugh....
I completely understand your frustration. "I'm just trying to help" has been my slogan for my mare for over a month now.... smh... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| RoaniePonie11 - 2018-07-31 8:19 PM
So this is why i have not tried Mag yet. I have done a load of research and B1 doesn't seem to have had any reactions like this but I read more than 1 article that talked about what exactly the Mag does to calm a horse and that it can actually make them worse if the horse does not mentally respond well to what it has done to their nervous system. It basically doesn't actually calm their minds, it slows their muscles/ reaction times so it actually mentally makes them worse because now they feel like they can't get away or can't express how they are feeling. They compare it to Ace.
I have been giving 1200mg of B1 via a syringe (to make sure she is getting it everyday) with some effects but not a huge improvement. I have seen better improvement with SmartGut Ultra (even on her mood) in two days than with anything else.
Good luck yo. lol.
Ps, tryptophan is proven to calm them, but thats a little much for me for a daily calmer.
Could you point me in the direction of these articles? I have my horse on quite a bit of magnesium a day and could definitely tell a difference in the beginning but now it seems like it's sort of "worn off" (or he's missing something else in his diet). I'm a very scientific oriented person and would love to learn more about the mag side effects. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | RoaniePonie11 - 2018-07-31 8:19 PM So this is why i have not tried Mag yet. I have done a load of research and B1 doesn't seem to have had any reactions like this but I read more than 1 article that talked about what exactly the Mag does to calm a horse and that it can actually make them worse if the horse does not mentally respond well to what it has done to their nervous system. It basically doesn't actually calm their minds, it slows their muscles/ reaction times so it actually mentally makes them worse because now they feel like they can't get away or can't express how they are feeling. They compare it to Ace. I have been giving 1200mg of B1 via a syringe (to make sure she is getting it everyday) with some effects but not a huge improvement. I have seen better improvement with SmartGut Ultra (even on her mood) in two days than with anything else. Good luck yo. lol. Ps, tryptophan is proven to calm them, but thats a little much for me for a daily calmer.
This is why they give mag to pregnant mommas who are going in to labor with relatively early pregnancies... really relax those muscles |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | We changed our feed program a few years ago to Koolspeed from Mansville Ag Center
Cools the stomach. Most of the hot horses we found were in some kind of bind. So to speak. And they like us have acid buildup like heart burn. Not always ulcers. From working for good hand that figure that out. He would give Milk of Magnesia to some. Cools the stomach. Some Pepto Bismol.
And then take them out of the trap on their head. When a horse gets a bit anxious most all ones sent here way over bridled. The horse today is ultra light.
And can't take curb pressure. You pull they push. The horse starts to run and seems many riders are out of their comfort zone and start to pull a little the horse goes faster they add more and pull more.
Many of the modern bred barrel and in cow horses. The faster they go the lighter they get. You can't push and pull at the same time. Now hes confused. So. As a horse is an animal of flight. When you scare,hurt,surprise them they run. An then the rider braces up against the horse and the horse braces up against the rider.
Then all they want is to save their life. When you take them out of the trap give them relief they change. If you cook the stomach it helps in the process.
Most people want to pick the horse up and take them to the destination,they feel like they have to be doing something all the time to help the horse. Show them what to do and how then get out of the way. Let the horse take you to the destination.
They will make mistakes. Correct it and go on. If always ride one like a colt you will always have a colt.
Let the horse work. Think like a horse
Some observation over 40years of riding horses.
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| WiscoRacer - 2018-07-31 10:05 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2018-07-31 8:19 PM
So this is why i have not tried Mag yet. I have done a load of research and B1 doesn't seem to have had any reactions like this but I read more than 1 article that talked about what exactly the Mag does to calm a horse and that it can actually make them worse if the horse does not mentally respond well to what it has done to their nervous system. It basically doesn't actually calm their minds, it slows their muscles/ reaction times so it actually mentally makes them worse because now they feel like they can't get away or can't express how they are feeling. They compare it to Ace.
I have been giving 1200mg of B1 via a syringe (to make sure she is getting it everyday) with some effects but not a huge improvement. I have seen better improvement with SmartGut Ultra (even on her mood) in two days than with anything else.
Good luck yo. lol.
Ps, tryptophan is proven to calm them, but thats a little much for me for a daily calmer.
Could you point me in the direction of these articles? I have my horse on quite a bit of magnesium a day and could definitely tell a difference in the beginning but now it seems like it's sort of "worn off" (or he's missing something else in his diet ). I'm a very scientific oriented person and would love to learn more about the mag side effects.
let me see if I can find them all. Here are a few:
https://equifeast-shop.com/the-myths-about-magnesium-horse-calmers/
https://www.hygain.com.au/feeding-magnesium-to-horses/
https://equifeast-shop.com/magnesium-based-studies-jess-dodd/
Here is a post from people that had adverse reactions with mag: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-705749.ht...
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Go go girl
| clampitt - 2018-08-01 6:20 AM We changed our feed program a few years ago to Koolspeed from Mansville Ag Center Cools the stomach. Most of the hot horses we found were in some kind of bind. So to speak. And they like us have acid buildup like heart burn. Not always ulcers. From working for good hand that figure that out. He would give Milk of Magnesia to some. Cools the stomach. Some Pepto Bismol. And then take them out of the trap on their head. When a horse gets a bit anxious most all ones sent here way over bridled. The horse today is ultra light. And can't take curb pressure. You pull they push. The horse starts to run and seems many riders are out of their comfort zone and start to pull a little the horse goes faster they add more and pull more. Many of the modern bred barrel and in cow horses. The faster they go the lighter they get. You can't push and pull at the same time. Now hes confused. So. As a horse is an animal of flight. When you scare,hurt,surprise them they run. An then the rider braces up against the horse and the horse braces up against the rider. Then all they want is to save their life. When you take them out of the trap give them relief they change. If you cook the stomach it helps in the process. Most people want to pick the horse up and take them to the destination,they feel like they have to be doing something all the time to help the horse. Show them what to do and how then get out of the way. Let the horse take you to the destination. They will make mistakes. Correct it and go on. If always ride one like a colt you will always have a colt. Let the horse work. Think like a horse Some observation over 40years of riding horses. He's been this way since I got him at 10 months old. He isn't in a trap, actually have been riding him some in your hackamore I borrowed from my sister. He has never even had a bit in his mouth, he rides in a side pull, Little S, Beetle hack, sir Walter hack. I have come to the conclusion that it's just going to take time for this horse, maybe years, for him to become "finished". I wanted to try something nutritional that would help him focus more and not get so preoccupied with the world around him. I don't think it's a stomach issue. He gets zero grain, has a brome/alfalfa mix fed to him 3 times a day, and free choice mineral.
Edited by MrsHound 2018-08-01 7:50 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have always just used the B1 crumbles and have always worked well for my horse that was tensed and a bit silly, I sure could tell the difference when he was not on it. I always kept my one gelding on the B1 crumbles when we were going alot and then I stoped running barrels for a year and I ran out of the crumbles didnt reorder since I was not going anywhere and then started back to going again and gosh why is he so silly I was thinking, ooppss I forgot I had him on B1 got him started back on it and was better, but hes retired now so dont need it anymore, some horses just need a little help in that area, he never out grew getting himself worked up I thought he would but never did. |
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Go go girl
| Southtxponygirl - 2018-08-01 7:30 AM I have always just used the B1 crumbles and have always worked well for my horse that was tensed and a bit silly, I sure could tell the difference when he was not on it. I always kept my one gelding on the B1 crumbles when we were going alot and then I stoped running barrels for a year and I ran out of the crumbles didnt reorder since I was not going anywhere and then started back to going again and gosh why is he so silly I was thinking, ooppss I forgot I had him on B1 got him started back on it and was better, but hes retired now so dont need it anymore, some horses just need a little help in that area, he never out grew getting himself worked up I thought he would but never did.
Thanks, I think I will try him just on the B1.  |
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Veteran
Posts: 102
| Oh my gosh! I have a 3 year old filly that is just a little spooky but not bad. Some one suggested to put her on magnesium so started a low dose. When that didn't work, I gave a full dose. Now spooking at everyday things, even the door sliding on her stall, so I'm thinking maybe she just needs more wet saddle blankets and work. Never realized that magnesium could be the culprit. Taking her off of it immediately, but how long does it take to get out of their system? Do I even think about using something like Su-per B-1 or Vitamin B1 crumbles or just wait and see? |
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Go go girl
| chopchop - 2018-08-01 4:55 PM Oh my gosh! I have a 3 year old filly that is just a little spooky but not bad. Some one suggested to put her on magnesium so started a low dose. When that didn't work, I gave a full dose. Now spooking at everyday things, even the door sliding on her stall, so I'm thinking maybe she just needs more wet saddle blankets and work. Never realized that magnesium could be the culprit. Taking her off of it immediately, but how long does it take to get out of their system? Do I even think about using something like Su-per B-1 or Vitamin B1 crumbles or just wait and see? Not sure how long it takes to get out of their systems. I just rode my gelding again around 4:00 and he was better, not back to himself though. I gave him just the B1 tonight, so I'll let you know if I see a difference. I am going to be away for the weekend and will ride him Monday, hoping to see an improvement. I am using the Su-Per B1.
Edited to add after talking with my husband last night I decided that I would quit the B1 also. Will ride him on Monday, hopefully he is back to his old unfocused, yet safe/sane, self.
Edited by MrsHound 2018-08-02 9:09 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Might be good to take them off of everything for a few days or a week just to get yourself a legit baseline to go from |
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Veteran
Posts: 102
| Thanks! I'm thinking I'm not going to use anything for a week or so and then look at the situation. |
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