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Elite Veteran
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| We have a 4yr old that was trained to really tuck in the bridle and stay collected that way so to say when we bought him, but for as tall as he is he doesn't "stretch" out in his trot or canter. Any suggestions? Yes he's sound, no issues there. Just really needs to get that stride extended and we have a hard time teaching this, I was wondering if I laid my poles on the ground and went over would that help? Any other suggestions? |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
 
| Poles are good.
I’ve been lessoning with a reining trainer who’s got me really working on bring their back up and driving up under themselves. My colt was pretty lazy going into lessons and even after just a couple we’ve noticed a huge difference in him. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| The best thing we have been doing is working a horse long and low, meaning we get them to stretch their necks out and down to start with and gradually bring them back to a more normal headset. It is great for building topline, getting them to stretch out and lengthen stride. It takes some time you can look up how to get there. My daughter got me started and it totally changed the way my mare moves it even helped her turn style. She is so much stronger in her loin now. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | Stay out of his mouth, switch to the mildest bit that you have and ride his hindquarters FORWARD. Forget about what his head/neck is doing, ride him forward without touching his mouth. Also, conformation determines length of stride not height. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| cutnrunqhmt - 2018-11-17 5:19 PM
The best thing we have been doing is working a horse long and low, meaning we get them to stretch their necks out and down to start with and gradually bring them back to a more normal headset. It is great for building topline, getting them to stretch out and lengthen stride. It takes some time you can look up how to get there. My daughter got me started and it totally changed the way my mare moves it even helped her turn style. She is so much stronger in her loin now.
Thank you, are you talking about looking this up like on Youtube? Or are there dvds for this? |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| Wild1 - 2018-11-17 8:01 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2018-11-17 5:19 PM
The best thing we have been doing is working a horse long and low, meaning we get them to stretch their necks out and down to start with and gradually bring them back to a more normal headset. It is great for building topline, getting them to stretch out and lengthen stride. It takes some time you can look up how to get there. My daughter got me started and it totally changed the way my mare moves it even helped her turn style. She is so much stronger in her loin now.
Thank you, are you talking about looking this up like on Youtube? Or are there dvds for this?
Let me ask my daughter where is a good place to look. We learned it from some body workers. I was amazed at the change in several horses. Keep in mind they do not ride like this the whole ride or all the time it is an exercise. When we got this mare she had always been rode with her head up and very hollow, she had no top line and was quick and short strided. She also had several muscle issues in her neck and back from being rode so badly. She made huge changes. It does help them lengthen stride because they get stronger in the top line and they are stretching muscles. So check out on youtube recongnizing topline syndrome and arttoride educational videos Miriam Johansson. This of course is just one small thing you can do but I believe in it now. Yes I know build ect will play a role but we can enhance what they have.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2018-11-17 10:23 PM
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| The gist of long and low would be to start with a loose rein at a posting long trot. Generally when posting we think “rise and fall with the leg on the fall” - outside front leg. So when we sit the rear outside let is coming forward. When you sit, squeeze and think about getting that rear leg to really reach forward and drive up and under them, lifting and rounding the back. Once you’re comfortable driving forward during the sit, you can start to think about the same thing during the “rise” portion, driving the inside rear leg up and under.
You should start to notice them rounding through their back, with the shoulders acting like a hinge - the back comes up, the neck and head go down.
Once you’ve accomplished that on a loose rein you can start to take a light feel in their face and drive into the bridle, rounding and lifting even more. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Â the equiami or pessoa lunging systems is a great tool too for encouraging long and low. It's wonderful for going over cavallettis too. A lot of what they learn in hand translates to the saddle too. You'll be amazed. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Charolette Cunningham asks this question on the winning runs video with Troy. That is the best explanation I've seen of it. But basically your gonna have to get him push up into the bridle to run not "hiding from your hands" this simply doesn't work for running barrels. Jolene talks about headset too in her training barrel horse videos so those might help you to watch as well. Basically your gonna have to make him "come apart a little" breeze him, ask him to run, put a mild bit on him ( don't let him run through and disrespect your hands) stride is created by your feet and your hands not teaching him carriage. I mean yeah as long as the poles are there he'll reach not to hit them, horses learn it stings to hit them. But your gonna have to speed him up teach him to run THEN you can bring him back and soften him up.
Do those English lunging systems work well yea but your still not teaching your horse to stretch out and run. Trick is you gotta get them to stretch out and run PLUS break that stride, collect up, stick their inside leg, come around and pull with the front end and go the other way. I'm a fan of teaching carriage through your hands and your feet not riding them around poles or round pen sessions *shrug shoulder emoticon*
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-11-18 10:21 AM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-11-18 10:12
Charolette Cunningham asks this question on the winning runs video with Troy. That is the best explanation I've seen of it. But basically your gonna have to get him push up into the bridle to run not "hiding from your hands" this simply doesn't work for running barrels. Jolene talks about headset too in her training barrel horse videos so those might help you to watch as well. Basically your gonna have to make him "come apart a little" breeze him, ask him to run, put a mild bit on him ( don't let him run through and disrespect your hands) stride is created by your feet and your hands not teaching him carriage. I mean yeah as long as the poles are there he'll reach not to hit them, horses learn it stings to hit them. But your gonna have to speed him up teach him to run THEN you can bring him back and soften him up.
Do those English lunging systems work well yea but your still not teaching your horse to stretch out and run. Trick is you gotta get them to stretch out and run PLUS break that stride, collect up, stick their inside leg, come around and pull with the front end and go the other way. I'm a fan of teaching carriage through your hands and your feet not riding them around poles or round pen sessions *shrug shoulder emoticon*
 the question wasn't to get the horse to stretch and run... The question was to lengthen stride and not be so peggy gaited. You have to start slow before fast. Teaching one to extent starts obviously at the walk, trot then lope and eventually run. Yes I agree after a point to get them to open and actually run you need to breeze but creating a cue is important too. A Horse should know how to extend at a trot and then lope. The lunging aid helps build their back so they have the strength where they need it to accomplish it... It encourages them to step deeper while rounding and lifting their back. It's a great strengthening tool. It helps teach long and low. A horse carrying them selves hollowed out will have a peggy small stepping stride. That's where the comment came in to encourage long and low and build their back so they can then carry themselves in frame correctly and be able to lengthen and shorten stride. Besides its just good for horses to kmow. |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| OhMax - 2018-11-18 7:32 AM
The gist of long and low would be to start with a loose rein at a posting long trot. Generally when posting we think “rise and fall with the leg on the fall” - outside front leg. So when we sit the rear outside let is coming forward. When you sit, squeeze and think about getting that rear leg to really reach forward and drive up and under them, lifting and rounding the back. Once you’re comfortable driving forward during the sit, you can start to think about the same thing during the “rise” portion, driving the inside rear leg up and under.
You should start to notice them rounding through their back, with the shoulders acting like a hinge - the back comes up, the neck and head go down.
Once you’ve accomplished that on a loose rein you can start to take a light feel in their face and drive into the bridle, rounding and lifting even more.
You explain it well. I can feel it but bad with words! |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| cutnrunqhmt - 2018-11-18 10:59 AM
OhMax - 2018-11-18 7:32 AM
The gist of long and low would be to start with a loose rein at a posting long trot. Generally when posting we think “rise and fall with the leg on the fall” - outside front leg. So when we sit the rear outside let is coming forward. When you sit, squeeze and think about getting that rear leg to really reach forward and drive up and under them, lifting and rounding the back. Once you’re comfortable driving forward during the sit, you can start to think about the same thing during the “rise” portion, driving the inside rear leg up and under.
You should start to notice them rounding through their back, with the shoulders acting like a hinge - the back comes up, the neck and head go down.
Once you’ve accomplished that on a loose rein you can start to take a light feel in their face and drive into the bridle, rounding and lifting even more.
You explain it well. I can feel it but bad with words!
Developing the feel for the rear end is the hardest part. Easier at the trot than the lope. But once you can feel the rear end, it all starts to come together. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-11-18 10:56 AM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-11-18 10:12
Charolette Cunningham asks this question on the winning runs video with Troy. That is the best explanation I've seen of it. But basically your gonna have to get him push up into the bridle to run not "hiding from your hands" this simply doesn't work for running barrels. Jolene talks about headset too in her training barrel horse videos so those might help you to watch as well. Basically your gonna have to make him "come apart a little" breeze him, ask him to run, put a mild bit on him ( don't let him run through and disrespect your hands) stride is created by your feet and your hands not teaching him carriage. I mean yeah as long as the poles are there he'll reach not to hit them, horses learn it stings to hit them. But your gonna have to speed him up teach him to run THEN you can bring him back and soften him up.
Do those English lunging systems work well yea but your still not teaching your horse to stretch out and run. Trick is you gotta get them to stretch out and run PLUS break that stride, collect up, stick their inside leg, come around and pull with the front end and go the other way. I'm a fan of teaching carriage through your hands and your feet not riding them around poles or round pen sessions *shrug shoulder emoticon*
 the question wasn't to get the horse to stretch and run... The question was to lengthen stride and not be so peggy gaited. You have to start slow before fast. Teaching one to extent starts obviously at the walk, trot then lope and eventually run. Yes I agree after a point to get them to open and actually run you need to breeze but creating a cue is important too. A Horse should know how to extend at a trot and then lope. The lunging aid helps build their back so they have the strength where they need it to accomplish it... It encourages them to step deeper while rounding and lifting their back. It's a great strengthening tool. It helps teach long and low. A horse carrying them selves hollowed out will have a peggy small stepping stride. That's where the comment came in to encourage long and low and build their back so they can then carry themselves in frame correctly and be able to lengthen and shorten stride. Besides its just good for horses to kmow.
I didn't answer the question of how to get one to stretch out to run.
I answered of how to fix a choppy stride with a horse that was taught to hide his face, which is what this person was describing. Also I'm gonna add make sure you've vetted well and that the horse is actually athletic enough to do what your asking, how your asking. Horses that it doesn't come natural to will require more riding to build up their muscles for correct collection. Note that correct collection looks different for different disciplines. Mulberry is an excellent example in the winning runs video a mention of correction collection with barrel horses.
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-11-18 2:53 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-11-18 8:57 AM
 the equiami or pessoa lunging systems is a great tool too for encouraging long and low. It's wonderful for going over cavallettis too. A lot of what they learn in hand translates to the saddle too. You'll be amazed.
I have never heard of these tools, just might have to google these, thanks |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: SoCal | If you're looking into something to round pen or lunge with, check out youtube for chambons. I was just recommended one by a trainer this weekend, but I had heard of them previously, just hadn't tried it yet. Come tomorrow I'll probably ordering one... Does not pull the bit back, it picks it up and works off poll pressure, so they can still get their nose out and down for the poll release.
ETA: I have used the knock off pessoa lunging system, and got good results with it really making my horse soft, but didn't do much else.
Edited by Last Catt 2018-11-18 8:11 PM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Last Catt - 2018-11-18 8:08 PMIf you're looking into something to round pen or lunge with, check out youtube for chambons. I was just recommended one by a trainer this weekend, but I had heard of them previously, just hadn't tried it yet. Come tomorrow I'll probably ordering one... Does not pull the bit back, it picks it up and works off poll pressure, so they can still get their nose out and down for the poll release.ETA: I have used the knock off pessoa lunging system, and got good results with it really making my horse soft, but didn't do much else. Â awesome sauce! I'm going to order one and put it in my tool box! I also wanted to add, I had a lot better luck with the equiami. They can't lean against it and it is a lot less complicated compared to the pessoa.... .Edited... I just looked and I have one! It Came with the equiami. Thanks for mentioning this because I had it for over a year and never thought about actually using it! That is why is so nice to collaborate on here!
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2018-11-18 9:23 PM
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