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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
 
Location: Southern Oregon | I have a super nice mare I have been riding for a while. Due to life circumstances she has had some inconsistent time on her. She is well broke, but I always find my self schooling her. Now I feel she is over flexed at the poll at times and she carries her head way to low for what I like. I know some horses conformation allows them to carry themselves this way and to leave it alone, but I really prefer a little more up if that makes since. I can't help but to think I have been part of the issue. I was riding her in a loose ring snaffle with an o ring mouth piece, moved her into a longer shanked jr cow horse with three piece mouthpiece. The snaffle just wasnt quite enough for when she is on the muscle, the LONG jr cowhorse was too much all of the other times. I honestly think the jr cowhorse bit is what helped cause these issues. Right now I just moved her into a Sherry Cervi short shank diamond with a three piece mouth piece. She seems to like it, but I am still feeling like it is just too much. Opinions on what to try next would be great. I am considering going to a sweet six with an o ring mouth, possibly a little s hackamore or an elevated lifter three piece snaffle. Her biggest down fall is getting her to her hiney, she is naturally built with a decent down hill slope. I am use to more of an up hill type horse |
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 Go For It!
   
Location: Texas |
Try using more leg and less hands. If she is responding to you then it's you that needs to lighten up with your hands. Just a thought.
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A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | Yes, I do think that as well. With her, she is super soft in the face, but needs reminding. I do drive her forward and not work her off of her face, although she seems to fall apart and get strung out like I have to bring her back into my hands and as soon as I barely pick up my reins she is OVERLY there. Its more like a one extreme to another. I just want a happy medium. To where when I tap or bump while even working large and small circles she doesnt take a direct offense to it. hmmmmmm |
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Veteran
Posts: 147
| Leg leg leg and when you think you have used enough leg more leg. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| The diamond lifter has quite a bit of weight which could cause a horse to carry their head lower.
The longer the purchase the more it will cause a horse to drop their head down, that is something else to think about.
An s shank hack you will loose bend, they tend to stiffen up with this.
I would have moved the mare up to a draw gag as this will get them elevated and using their hind end.
Or I would have went to a sweet six, I don't like jumping from a snaffle to a shanked bit without going to something inbetween
Also are you sure she is over flexed at the poll, or is her entire head and neck lower, this is a difference.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-03-18 8:30 PM
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A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | cheryl makofka - 2015-03-18 6:28 PM
The diamond lifter has quite a bit of weight which could cause a horse to carry their head lower.
The longer the purchase the more it will cause a horse to drop their head down, that is something else to think about.
An s shank hack you will loose bend, they tend to stiffen up with this.
I would have moved the mare up to a draw gag as this will get them elevated and using their hind end.
Or I would have went to a sweet six, I don't like jumping from a snaffle to a shanked bit without going to something inbetween
Also are you sure she is over flexed at the poll, or is her entire head and neck lower, this is a difference.
The bit weight is what I too think is causing part of the issue. I did at first go to a draw gag with an o ring mouthpiece. I only used it a few times before I bumped up. Maybe I will throw that on her and try it out again. It is a combination between over flexed and too low head/neck. At times her poll is lower then withers and at times her nose is behind her poll if that makes since. I just want a happy medium lol. Maybe I am over thinking it. Maybe I should move my focus else where? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| cowgirl_3207 - 2015-03-18 8:41 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-03-18 6:28 PM
The diamond lifter has quite a bit of weight which could cause a horse to carry their head lower.
The longer the purchase the more it will cause a horse to drop their head down, that is something else to think about.
An s shank hack you will loose bend, they tend to stiffen up with this.
I would have moved the mare up to a draw gag as this will get them elevated and using their hind end.
Or I would have went to a sweet six, I don't like jumping from a snaffle to a shanked bit without going to something inbetween
Also are you sure she is over flexed at the poll, or is her entire head and neck lower, this is a difference.
The bit weight is what I too think is causing part of the issue. I did at first go to a draw gag with an o ring mouthpiece. I only used it a few times before I bumped up. Maybe I will throw that on her and try it out again. It is a combination between over flexed and too low head/neck. At times her poll is lower then withers and at times her nose is behind her poll if that makes since. I just want a happy medium lol. Maybe I am over thinking it. Maybe I should move my focus else where?
I use only 3 piece mouth pieces, I don't like single broken as I don't feel I get the same contact.
Also some horses just run with their head between their legs. I had a judge cash mare who ran like that, I wouldn't change her for the world. She is a 1d horse, never runs by a barrel, just her style
I would focus more on her body then her head. I would find a bit that she doesn't get behind |
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 Expert
Posts: 2489
Location: somewhere up north | I would suggest a lighter bit, non-shank, to work her in. From what you said you school her too much. Let her be a horse and just ride her at times likes she a baby...long trot around the arena and work circles with a loose rein. If you move into smaller circles then use leg first and then hands. Also, try keeping your hands up... I have a mare in right now for training that was pleasure trained and always wants to drop at the poll when you pick up on the reins. Having to move my hands up, lift up rather than back, use inside leg to shape her versus hands and post post post to get her to move out. I am using a goosetree simplicity on her. |
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Location: KS | My husband bought me a finished ranch horse last year that is a half sibling to one of my mares. The gelding is super, super broke with all the bells and whistles. However his previous owner nit picked him to the point of making over flexing a conditioned response. Whenever LB did something that wasn't perfect he was flexed and backed up making it so that when I would pick up on him he would over flex, stick his chin on his chest and then I would lose all control. I worked all spring, summer and fall on him. I had one of the best hands around help me with him also and we got him to where he was a lot better but not fixed. Any time I would go faster than half speed, or when I would haul him and he felt pressure as soon as I would try to help him at a barrel same thing-chin to chest taking away control. I was getting extremely frustrated as I really liked the horse and felt like he had a ton of ability. A month or so ago the gal who helped me with him called, she had been talking with her brother who is a reined cow horse trainer about my horse and he said to try riding him in a cribbing collar. That fixing an over flexed horse is one of the hardest things to do and that when you had tried everything else that the cribbing collar usually works as it prevents them from being able to over flex. It has made a night and day difference in my gelding. It took him about 5 minutes (and I don't have it very tight) to figure out that he can't over flex-and I don't feel like I have done calisthenics from using so much leg when I'm done. He is sitting and turning the barrels instead of taking control away and floating around them. Eventually I hope to take it off. My gelding would over flex in a smooth mouth ring snaffle with fingertip pressure. |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I am nothing special so totally take my advice for what it is worth....it is my personal opinion that bits don't fix a horse and how it seeks the bit. Training does.
I work my horse in a hollow smooth ring snaffle and show in an Ed Wright short shank.
I have learned (and continue to learn)that for every pound you ride with you hands you need to ride with 10 lbs of leg. If you are putting pressure on that bit you better be using your seat more than your hands.
I have also learned if you want your horse to work off their hind end you have to ride the hind end. You can't change how a horse moves but you can enhance their movement. I truly could not explain how to ride the hind end but look up some basic dressage articles or check out youtube. |
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Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | magic gunsmoke - 2015-03-20 4:26 PM I am nothing special so totally take my advice for what it is worth....it is my personal opinion that bits don't fix a horse and how it seeks the bit. Training does. I work my horse in a hollow smooth ring snaffle and show in an Ed Wright short shank. I have learned (and continue to learn)that for every pound you ride with you hands you need to ride with 10 lbs of leg. If you are putting pressure on that bit you better be using your seat more than your hands. I have also learned if you want your horse to work off their hind end you have to ride the hind end. You can't change how a horse moves but you can enhance their movement. I truly could not explain how to ride the hind end but look up some basic dressage articles or check out youtube.
 Yes! 
In my quest for learning how to break a horse at the poll and teach collection, I have done this! In all honesty, I believe EVERYONE who has ever searched for softness and collection has got a horse behind a bridle and over flexed. As barrel racers know, this is NOT a good thing.
In going back and fixing my own issues, I have learned that it is NOT about the bit or the bridle or the headstall, it is all about how your are riding the horse. Let me quote Ian Francis "they go how you ride them". |
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A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | jlrace - 2015-03-19 4:43 PM
My husband bought me a finished ranch horse last year that is a half sibling to one of my mares. Â The gelding is super, super broke with all the bells and whistles. Â However his previous owner nit picked him to the point of making over flexing a conditioned response. Â Whenever LB did something that wasn't perfect he was flexed and backed up making it so that when I would pick up on him he would over flex, stick his chin on his chest and then I would lose all control. Â I worked all spring, summer and fall on him. Â I had one of the best hands around help me with him also and we got him to where he was a lot better but not fixed. Â Any time I would go faster than half speed, or when I would haul him and he felt pressure as soon as I would try to help him at a barrel same thing-chin to chest taking away control. Â I was getting extremely frustrated as I really liked the horse and felt like he had a ton of ability. Â A month or so ago the gal who helped me with him called, she had been talking with her brother who is a reined cow horse trainer about my horse and he said to try riding him in a cribbing collar. Â That fixing an over flexed horse is one of the hardest things to do and that when you had tried everything else that the cribbing collar usually works as it prevents them from being able to over flex. Â It has made a night and day difference in my gelding. Â It took him about 5 minutes (and I don't have it very tight) to figure out that he can't over flex-and I don't feel like I have done calisthenics from using so much leg when I'm done. Â He is sitting and turning the barrels instead of taking control away and floating around them. Â Eventually I hope to take it off. Â My gelding would over flex in a smooth mouth ring snaffle with fingertip pressure.
That is very interesting. Never heard of that before. She isn't quite that bad. |
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