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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
   
Location: Dubach, LA | Have you ever thought that what may be fillers for us is good for a horse? Surely God intended for the entire plant to serve a purpose. Horses are not humans. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
 
Location: LaCygne, KS | I've often wondered if a horses reluctance to dive into a different ration (hay or grain) isn't part of their natural defense to changing their diet slowly to avoid gut problems. "Mom, it says in the fine print on the bag to make ration changes slowly. Besides this new crap that you are trying out on me tastes strange", said the horse.
added: good points CanCan, NJJ , RockinGR and 3-4-Luck!
Edited by Prehistoric 2014-02-01 10:07 AM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 10:01 AM I've often wondered if a horses reluctance to dive into a different ration (hay or grain) isn't part of their natural defense to changing their diet slowly to avoid gut problems. "Mom, it says in the fine print on the bag to make ration changes slowly. Besides this new crap that you are trying out on me tastes strange", said the horse.
added: good points CanCan, NJJ , RockinGR and 3-4-Luck!
I kind of doubt he was that polite in his thoughts about me at that point. You remember he jumped the fence twice before we found a good compromise in our ideas of suitable housing arrangements. Which meant I put him in with my other 2 and hoped nobody got hurt. LOL | |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | NJJ - 2014-02-01 8:35 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists.  That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them. I just wish everyone of the "experts" here would, at the very least, have toured a feed milling plant before making blanket statements about the quality and ingredients of ANY feed. I worked at GPC (Kent Feeds) for 10 years in the research labs.........enough said.......
I feed some of my horses Purina, one Nutrena and the rest plain oats. We put up our own alfalfa and prairie hay. They get all the prairie they want to eat. In the summer I'm lucky enough to have great pasture. I would like to hear one person tell me my horses on Purina or Nutrena don't look good. I double dog dare you. Maybe living in the Dakotas we get those feeds using better ingredients than other parts of the country. Don't have a clue on that but I'm smart enough to know if a feed isn't working I'll change to something else. | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | kwanatha - 2014-02-01 6:54 AM Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 4:44 AM I come to this thread once or twice a day for a 'WTH did they just say moment'. I notice there are a few voices of reason that comment on this and a few, IMO, that are "sure out there a ways".
First of all, Purina, Nutrena and a number of other feed companies have multiple nutritionists on staff with PhD's behind their names. I am aquainted with seveal of these-they are smart, honest, have a equine background and sat through a lot more chemistry classes, etc in college than I cared to. I trust them.
If we study the evolution of the horse, we find they did not evolve in a corn (or oat) field or a stall with 16 winter blankets. Therefore, they can safely handle a lot more than some of us think.
There are a number of by products of the food (both animal and human) industry and milling industry that can be successfully used in livestock feeds. Most of these have been researched and used for decades.
I will comment on three by products that have been mentioned: soy bean hulls (SBH), DDG (distillers dried grain) and wheat midds. All are high in digestible fiber and protien. SBH pellets are 10% crude protien (% CP), fiber 36%. Wheat midds-7.5% fiber, 16.5 % CP. DDG-10% fat, 8% fiber, 25% CP.
All three of these byproducts can and are safely and successfully use as part of livestock rations, including horse feed. An argument can be made that these are safer for horses than corn, oats, barley, etc. I leave the formulation of these rations to the experts (in my case-Purina). This gives me time to worry about such important things as: are the hay feeders full and the water open this winter? i have no problem with the fillers. many of your low NSC feeds have soybean hulls. I feed some myself. It jsut kills me to pay top dollar for them.
Part of what you are paying for is the increase in tires, diesel, trucks, truck maintenance, etc. The raw product has to be harvested, hauled to be proccessed, hauled to the feed company then hauled to the feed store. I honestly don't belive the farmers, feed company, or feed stores profit margin has gone up all that much in the last 10 years. | |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | CYA Ranch - 2014-02-01 10:13 AM NJJ - 2014-02-01 8:35 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them.
Lol, I haven't heard anyone say that in years. We have a horse named that. | |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Barnmom - 2014-02-01 10:24 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-02-01 10:13 AM NJJ - 2014-02-01 8:35 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:24 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-31 8:20 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-31 9:13 PM The problem isn't the feed. The problem is everyone thinking they are feed nutritionists. That's where it all gets super duper hard. Sometimes you have to keep your questions off the board, do your own research, see what's available in your area and know your animals.
I have few feeds here in WY. Pretty much Nutrena and Purina and Total Equine just because I have a friend that sells it. I feed all 3 to a different horse. I don't think you can have several horses and say, "I will feed this and just this." Like you said, you must know your horse and what works for them.
LOL Maybe I'm giving my age away. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
Location: LaCygne, KS | Three 4 Luck - 2014-02-01 10:11 AM Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 10:01 AM I've often wondered if a horses reluctance to dive into a different ration (hay or grain) isn't part of their natural defense to changing their diet slowly to avoid gut problems. "Mom, it says in the fine print on the bag to make ration changes slowly. Besides this new crap that you are trying out on me tastes strange", said the horse.
added: good points CanCan, NJJ , RockinGR and 3-4-Luck!
I kind of doubt he was that polite in his thoughts about me at that point. You remember he jumped the fence twice before we found a good compromise in our ideas of suitable housing arrangements. Which meant I put him in with my other 2 and hoped nobody got hurt. LOL
Edited by Prehistoric 2014-02-01 10:32 AM
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Barnmom - 2014-02-01 10:21 AM kwanatha - 2014-02-01 6:54 AM Prehistoric - 2014-02-01 4:44 AM I come to this thread once or twice a day for a 'WTH did they just say moment'. I notice there are a few voices of reason that comment on this and a few, IMO, that are "sure out there a ways".
First of all, Purina, Nutrena and a number of other feed companies have multiple nutritionists on staff with PhD's behind their names. I am aquainted with seveal of these-they are smart, honest, have a equine background and sat through a lot more chemistry classes, etc in college than I cared to. I trust them.
If we study the evolution of the horse, we find they did not evolve in a corn (or oat) field or a stall with 16 winter blankets. Therefore, they can safely handle a lot more than some of us think.
There are a number of by products of the food (both animal and human) industry and milling industry that can be successfully used in livestock feeds. Most of these have been researched and used for decades.
I will comment on three by products that have been mentioned: soy bean hulls (SBH), DDG (distillers dried grain) and wheat midds. All are high in digestible fiber and protien. SBH pellets are 10% crude protien (% CP), fiber 36%. Wheat midds-7.5% fiber, 16.5 % CP. DDG-10% fat, 8% fiber, 25% CP.
All three of these byproducts can and are safely and successfully use as part of livestock rations, including horse feed. An argument can be made that these are safer for horses than corn, oats, barley, etc. I leave the formulation of these rations to the experts (in my case-Purina). This gives me time to worry about such important things as: are the hay feeders full and the water open this winter? i have no problem with the fillers. many of your low NSC feeds have soybean hulls. I feed some myself. It jsut kills me to pay top dollar for them. Part of what you are paying for is the increase in tires, diesel, trucks, truck maintenance, etc. The raw product has to be harvested, hauled to be proccessed, hauled to the feed company then hauled to the feed store. I honestly don't belive the farmers, feed company, or feed stores profit margin has gone up all that much in the last 10 years.
Farmers don't pass on their costs, we are at the mercy of the markets. This year we will likely not have much if any profit because market prices for commodities are WAY down, while our inputs are still up. Hopefully the 2015 crop will align a little better. The setting of prices to cover costs starts once commodities get to the processing plant, as farmers are footing the bill to that point. It sucks when it costs more to produce than you can sell for, but that's where the safety net of the farm bill is supposed to kick in. We do our best to plant crops we can make money on, but once it's in the ground you're stuck. And not planting is not an option because there is no way to pay for land and equipment and labor you need next year if you don't have a crop this year. | |
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