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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Long story short... our rope horse has advanced Navicular. Watching him move he is just the slightest bit off. I had the vet take some shots just to see what’s going on and to our surprise it’s advanced Navicular.
We injected his coffin joints and tomorrow he gets a wedged pads with frog support. I’m going to look into Osphos (but not sure if it works with advanced stages) -just need to research that a bit more.
Does anyone have any other suggestions or expiriences? |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
  
| Osphos is great. Get Magna Cu Bell Boots. And if you have a laser use it around coronary band. Also if you have access to a Theraplate or Equivibe they will really help. I’ve heard good things about Equibone as a supplement. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
 
Location: Texas |
http://www.tlcanimalnutrition.com/EQUI-BONE--Support-Bone-Related-H...
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest | I feel these horses with heal pain need more than x-rays. Navicular Bone changes doesn't necessarily cause lameness. I would check with an MRI and then decide what treatment is appropriate. |
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Veteran
Posts: 155
| We bought a mare in 09 that had horrible feet. In the process of correcting them she was also diagnosed "navicular". At the time we injected the bursa, started her on adequan, shock wave therapy and i put her on cetyl m. Looking back, I wish I would have just let her have time, with correcting het feet. She is 22 this year and super sound! feet are well balanced and I have kept her on only ceytl m. She was still running 2/3d times last year and would get chiro and acuscoped about once a month.
I'm beginning to think less is more. Of course you don't want them in pain, but remember the old saying, time heals all wounds? That doesn't mean I wouldn't totally do diagnostics to a point, but I wouldnt go broke doing it!
Jmho |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| I have had 2 horses with navicular nerved and wouldn’t hesitate to do it again. Both returned to work and now are retired with no pain
Edited by Easy Rider 2017-12-26 4:29 PM
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 Regular
Posts: 53
Location: Nebraska | Dr. Brunk in Grand Island, NE is doing a freezing procedure (iovera) for horses with heel pain. He uses it for true navicular, broken navicular bones, and generalized heel pain (aka navicular syndrome). I had this done with my horse who has high/low heel syndrome and it changed her life. I have her back competing and she feels great. He said he hasn't performed a neurectomy surgery since starting this therapy. As far as I know, I don't think anyone else is doing it yet. Very new and experimental but very safe with minimal if any side effects.
It's essentially a nerve freezing procedure. It came over from the human medicine side. It was approved last summer (2016) in the United States. It came over from Europe. One of Dr. Brunk's clients happened to be a distributor for the product Iovera and told him about it and he took off with the idea. It is a probe that uses liquid nitrous oxide to freeze the nerve. Applying at certain temperatures for particular lengths of time can produce any where from a temporary to permanent nerve block. His goal is to create a permanent block. It does not damage the surrounding tissue, arteries, or veins. It doesn't destroy the nerve, just inhibits conduction of the pain signal. It's like doing a neurectomy but without the actual surgery and potential for neuroma formation.
If the block wears off, you just do it again. Speaking of neuromas, he's also using on horses who had a neurectomy performed that developed neuromas and giving them relief. It's definitely experimental but he's seeing great results. Some horses may need 2-3 treatments depending on cause and severity. My horse needed two initial treatments (8 weeks apart) and then we did a third 7 months out when I noticed she seemed to be getting a little stiff again. She's been doing fantastic. I thought I was going to have to retire her at 9 years old but now I have a happy horse with happy feet. You still have to treat them like a horse that had the surgery. Meaning checking and cleaning the feet 2-3 times a day. They can't feel their heel or sole. I'd recommend giving Dr. Brunk a call and speaking to him about the nerve freezing. He's at Equine Veterinary Associates 308-382-8365 in Grand Island, NE. Not sure where you're located but it'd be worth the drive even if you were all the way on the coast. He may even be able to talk your vet through the procedure. It only requires regular sedation and nerve block (probe isn't exactly comfortable). I asked him if he was going to write some studies about it but he said he wasn't that kind of guy. I've been trying to find literature or anyone else working with it but I can't. I personally feel this kind of treatment will revolutionize how we deal with horses with heel pain. It's been nothing short of a miracle with my horse.
I was about to give up on my horse until I heard about this through the grapevine from my farrier and local rodeo people. He said he use to do 12 neurectomies a week and now he's done none. He's using this to avoid surgery as long as possible. It's also extremely affordable. I also noticed the effects immediately. In 24 hours after the first treatment I couldn't believe her stride. She started playing with the other horses again.....running, bucking, rearing. She's suppose to stay quiet the first couple of weeks to get use to her feet but it was hard to keep her down she was feeling so good |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| classycanchaser - 2017-12-26 5:14 PM Dr. Brunk in Grand Island, NE is doing a freezing procedure (iovera) for horses with heel pain. He uses it for true navicular, broken navicular bones, and generalized heel pain (aka navicular syndrome). I had this done with my horse who has high/low heel syndrome and it changed her life. I have her back competing and she feels great. He said he hasn't performed a neurectomy surgery since starting this therapy. As far as I know, I don't think anyone else is doing it yet. Very new and experimental but very safe with minimal if any side effects. It's essentially a nerve freezing procedure. It came over from the human medicine side. It was approved last summer (2016) in the United States. It came over from Europe. One of Dr. Brunk's clients happened to be a distributor for the product Iovera and told him about it and he took off with the idea. It is a probe that uses liquid nitrous oxide to freeze the nerve. Applying at certain temperatures for particular lengths of time can produce any where from a temporary to permanent nerve block. His goal is to create a permanent block. It does not damage the surrounding tissue, arteries, or veins. It doesn't destroy the nerve, just inhibits conduction of the pain signal. It's like doing a neurectomy but without the actual surgery and potential for neuroma formation. If the block wears off, you just do it again. Speaking of neuromas, he's also using on horses who had a neurectomy performed that developed neuromas and giving them relief. It's definitely experimental but he's seeing great results. Some horses may need 2-3 treatments depending on cause and severity. My horse needed two initial treatments (8 weeks apart) and then we did a third 7 months out when I noticed she seemed to be getting a little stiff again. She's been doing fantastic. I thought I was going to have to retire her at 9 years old but now I have a happy horse with happy feet. You still have to treat them like a horse that had the surgery. Meaning checking and cleaning the feet 2-3 times a day. They can't feel their heel or sole. I'd recommend giving Dr. Brunk a call and speaking to him about the nerve freezing. He's at Equine Veterinary Associates 308-382-8365 in Grand Island, NE. Not sure where you're located but it'd be worth the drive even if you were all the way on the coast. He may even be able to talk your vet through the procedure. It only requires regular sedation and nerve block (probe isn't exactly comfortable). I asked him if he was going to write some studies about it but he said he wasn't that kind of guy. I've been trying to find literature or anyone else working with it but I can't. I personally feel this kind of treatment will revolutionize how we deal with horses with heel pain. It's been nothing short of a miracle with my horse. I was about to give up on my horse until I heard about this through the grapevine from my farrier and local rodeo people. He said he use to do 12 neurectomies a week and now he's done none. He's using this to avoid surgery as long as possible. It's also extremely affordable. I also noticed the effects immediately. In 24 hours after the first treatment I couldn't believe her stride. She started playing with the other horses again.....running, bucking, rearing. She's suppose to stay quiet the first couple of weeks to get use to her feet but it was hard to keep her down she was feeling so good thanks for your post! How was your horse diagnosed? With x rays, mri or other? I have a mare that has been off on her left front for almost a year. Just slightly at the trot. Shoes with different pads don't help. It was thought to be thin soles but now it seems to be more. We have done a ton of x rays. Her sole went from a 7 mm dept to 12 mm. Her navicular bone and coffin bone/ joint look normal. The only thing that is questionable is a very slight and small change in her pastern joint. Its so slight though. She blocks sounds with a low PD block and an abaxial block. We've injected her coffin joints then 2 months later we injected her pastern joint and there hasn't been any change. I am saving up for an MRI... But I know how good Dr Brunk is so I am tempted to just take a trailer load of horses to him.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2017-12-26 8:55 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
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^^^^^^This 100%. It, along with corrective shoeing and time off has made a HUGE difference in my mare. We don't think she'll even need injections. We opted to not start with injections so that we could honestly tell if the shoeing was working.
I think the word "navicular" is misused a lot, so just be sure you explore all your options and find the root of the problem. Good luck! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| I know Navicular can mean a lot of different things, but this is pretty clear. I wish I would have taken a picture of the x-ray. I will definetly look into the Equibone! Thank you all! |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | I have dealt with navicular in a couple horses and I had mine nerved. They still had feeling in the front part of their feet and never missed a beat, They are both retired happy and in no pain. If they need nerved again in their retirement, I wouldn't hesistate to do it again for them. I had NO luck with anything but. I tried almost everything mentioned above, the Osphos, the Equibone, injections, time off, the one had 2 years off, standing them up more, bringing toes back. Nothing worked. I had such an uneducated opinion on the procedure itself for along time till that was my only option. You would be amazed at the horses that were and are at the NFR that are nerved. There are more then you know. it's not tabu... and the procedure itself was nothing. (it's like anything though, until you go through it, you really don't know much about it... ) but that is my experience anyway :)
Edited by cindyt 2017-12-29 8:33 AM
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| classycanchaser:
do you have an update to your post?
how is your horse?
does dr b still do this?
Edited by y_do_i_do_this 2018-06-04 4:17 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 2533
Location: the land of dust & sticks | “Navicular” is a term used too loosely in my opinion. I have a horse who has been nerved, was able to go back to competing for a few years then came back up sore. MRI told the tale of it ALL, she is now retired at a young age but she’s sound and doesn’t owe me a thing. Tried Equi one on another horse with no success. |
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