|
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| I'm waiting on a call back from her. She text me and told me what she found on radiographs. She is currently in with another apt. Curious what you guys have done or would do.
The horse is 4. With less than 90 days riding history. Not rode until after 3yo. Radiographs show narrowing and fusing of lower hock joint. Horse was* on the market to be sold. This is the FWF/Fuel Charger/OTMR/Ole Man filly. I will not sell her like this. I was kinda teatering on keeping her anyways but this seals the deal for me.
Side note- I have a breeding to Mr TT Pacific from a mare that didn't take last year that expires this year and no horse to breed to him. He is future fortunes and had a daughter come back from Vegas with $130,000 this past year so obviously a producer.
I'm waiting to see what the protocol is for a fusing hock. Do you inject and ride? Inject and time off, don't inject and time off? Not injecting and riding won't be an option for me. This is my first fusing hock.
Thanks for all of the input. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Honestly I would do the surgery either dremmel, or laser and be done with it.
Yes it is pricey but most horses will not fuse fully naturally, and it can be a very lengthy process if it ever does fuse properly.
If the one is beginning to fuse and you don't treat this one, the other leg will take more of the weight and pressure which will cause it to become arthritic faster. The horse will be in pain before you ever see the arthritic changes.
If you do choose to go surgery route, I suggest researching the surgeons, ask about success rate, failure rate, and infection rate.
Yes there is the potential for complications, but there is also the potential for complications everytime you inject as well.
I know the laser, if all goes well, you will be riding the horse within 3 weeks. My first horse which was done years ago I was given the go ahead to compete in 4 days, and his time was half a second faster. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| cheryl makofka - 2016-02-12 11:09 AM
Honestly I would do the surgery either dremmel, or laser and be done with it.
Yes it is pricey but most horses will not fuse fully naturally, and it can be a very lengthy process if it ever does fuse properly.
If the one is beginning to fuse and you don't treat this one, the other leg will take more of the weight and pressure which will cause it to become arthritic faster. The horse will be in pain before you ever see the arthritic changes.
If you do choose to go surgery route, I suggest researching the surgeons, ask about success rate, failure rate, and infection rate.
Yes there is the potential for complications, but there is also the potential for complications everytime you inject as well.
I know the laser, if all goes well, you will be riding the horse within 3 weeks. My first horse which was done years ago I was given the go ahead to compete in 4 days, and his time was half a second faster.
If you don't mind me asking about what it cost for the laser? |
|
| |
|
 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | RoaniePonie11 - 2016-02-12 10:37 AM I'm waiting on a call back from her. She text me and told me what she found on radiographs. She is currently in with another apt. Curious what you guys have done or would do. The horse is 4. With less than 90 days riding history. Not rode until after 3yo. Radiographs show narrowing and fusing of lower hock joint. Horse was* on the market to be sold. This is the FWF/Fuel Charger/OTMR/Ole Man filly. I will not sell her like this. I was kinda teatering on keeping her anyways but this seals the deal for me. Side note- I have a breeding to Mr TT Pacific from a mare that didn't take last year that expires this year and no horse to breed to him. He is future fortunes and had a daughter come back from Vegas with $130,000 this past year so obviously a producer. I'm waiting to see what the protocol is for a fusing hock. Do you inject and ride? Inject and time off, don't inject and time off? Not injecting and riding won't be an option for me. This is my first fusing hock. Thanks for all of the input. Well if the hock is fusing, chances are she is sore and in pain. You could just leave her be in the pasture and not ride, but sometimes it takes years until they fuse completely, if at all. So it's kind of a "gamble" on how long they will have to sit. I most definately would not "do nothing" with treatment but continue to ride her. Honestly, that would be cruel to the horse. If you want to ride, you'll need to do something to manage her pain because I guarantee she'll be sore from it.
Injections are a miracle, so long as you can still get the needle in the joint space to inject. Previcox can help take care of any lingering soreness that may linger after injections.
My Red was diagnosed with a fusing hock on his right side. I had been having problems with him for a while and we didn't figure it out until he had just turned 8. I bought him as a 6-year-old, who was green and fat. So he did NOT have his legs run off as a youngster. For a second opinion, I drove him 6 hours one-way to one of the best vets in our region. He told me that for how advanced his fusing was for his age, and lack of use while he was young, he said it was probably something congenital that he's had all along.
Thankfully, Red has fully fused and therefore doesn't need injections anymore. But they worked beautifully at the time. I had a whole new horse. It was great.
You could look into surgeries to "force" it to fuse but to my knowledge, those aren't 100% all the time either. I'm not as familier with the surgical options, but definately do your homework.
Edited by r_beau 2016-02-12 11:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| If she is 4yo and has not had much riding/hard use and her hocks are starting to fuse I would seriously question that and would definitely not want to pass that on to any future babies...  |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 5290
| My 10 year old has same thing. Vet told me to inject with Steroid ONLY, no HA ( Because it would keep the joint lubed up) and to use the heck out of him, the more use the better to force that hock to go bone on bone and fuse. THe Steroid will keep the horse pain free during the process. The steroid alone will deteriorate the joint and move things along. THey do have alcohol injection which I would think would be very painful but does the trick in no time. Since I am competing on this horse he gets done every 7-8 months. He will be fine one day and limping the next. Thats when I know he needs to be redone.
Having said that....... I have been using curost since summer and that has kept the inflammation out. Which is good news for parts of his body like coffin joints because repeated injections there cause more damage than good, but I think it has slowed down the hock fusion I am sure.. But the really good news is that he is almost 3 months over due and still sound!! Either the curost is working OR he finally fused and the pain is gone. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I live in Alberta and have also had both done the cost has ranged anywhere from 2500-5000 for both. I have only done laser.
If you are only doing one, it should be half the cost.
Dr Honnas (I believe in Oklahoma was the cofounder for the laser surgery)
To comment on the other post As for is the poor hocks genetic, there are so many things that cause hock problems
Poor nutrition up to the age of 2
An inflammed hock, so if she got kicked in it, sprained it and it was left untreated
Starting colts too young, you see this a lot in the cutting horse world
Injury even with the best of care, this can be a little as a wire cut exposing the bone
Growing too fast as a baby
Feeding too much as a baby
Poor farrier or no farrier can cause hock issues |
|
| |
|
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| cheryl makofka - 2016-02-12 4:34 PM
I live in Alberta and have also had both done the cost has ranged anywhere from 2500-5000 for both. I have only done laser.
If you are only doing one, it should be half the cost.
Dr Honnas (I believe in Oklahoma was the cofounder for the laser surgery)
To comment on the other post As for is the poor hocks genetic, there are so many things that cause hock problems
Poor nutrition up to the age of 2
An inflammed hock, so if she got kicked in it, sprained it and it was left untreated
Starting colts too young, you see this a lot in the cutting horse world
Injury even with the best of care, this can be a little as a wire cut exposing the bone
Growing too fast as a baby
Feeding too much as a baby
Poor farrier or no farrier can cause hock issues
Dr Honnas is in Bryan, TX and doesn't do them.
Dr Hague is in Edmond, Ok and does them.
I had one done with the laser Sept 4, 2014. It was a wreck. We almost lost the horse to complications. He didn't come back sound. We drilled him in April 2015. He came back reasonably sound by Christmas 2015. I started him back slowly and took him to his first jackpot last week.
Lasering and drilling should be your very last option and you need to understand the possible complication. |
|
| |
|
  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The mare is 4 yrs old and has one hock fusing.. the other will be sore as well if not treated but In my opinion surgery would be my last option................... id inject the hocks and Adequan..or try legend series then rexray..although Ive not had any luck with legend series.she is young and surgery is more risky amd drastic...to ruin her.. Hocks fuse.. its a process.what does your vet recommend?
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-02-12 6:16 PM
|
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| It is Dr Hauge who coauthored all the research.
Sorry I can't quote anything today my quote button is an alert button.
As with everything there are risks,
Injecting every 3-6 months each time there is a risk of infection, doing this for the rest of their life increases the risk. The risk of a horse coming back from an infected joint is rare, unless it is identified immediately and a competent vet does aggressive treatment.
For laser surgery, I would go with Dr Hauge if I was down there, as he was the coauthor, and during the study they perfected the heat range, became comfortable with the machine (there are different types and they all require different temps) and techniques on cadivor horses first.
For cost I rather do the laser fusion versus injecting hocks especially on young ones as in 6 years it has paid for itself if you are doing the injection every 6 months. This is barring any complications. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1261
| I had this issue with my mare when she was about 12. The lameness vet in our area that I was told is the best said almost every horse in hard work like barrels, cutting, reining etc has fully fuzed hocks by age 5 and it's not an issue at all. Maybe that's not correct I don't know.
My mare has been off for 3 years waiting for her hocks to fuze. I did alcohol injections twice and some other type of injection he did for free just to see if it would help. I spent at least 1500 on all that and she's the same three years later being out to pasture as she was before I did anything. The only thing I can see makes any difference in her is putting her on chia seeds and making sure she's somewhere where she moves around but she also has osteoarthritis in both hocks. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | wishes4kissez - 2016-02-14 5:31 PM I had this issue with my mare when she was about 12. The lameness vet in our area that I was told is the best said almost every horse in hard work like barrels, cutting, reining etc has fully fuzed hocks by age 5 and it's not an issue at all. Maybe that's not correct I don't know. My mare has been off for 3 years waiting for her hocks to fuze. I did alcohol injections twice and some other type of injection he did for free just to see if it would help. I spent at least 1500 on all that and she's the same three years later being out to pasture as she was before I did anything. The only thing I can see makes any difference in her is putting her on chia seeds and making sure she's somewhere where she moves around but she also has osteoarthritis in both hocks. thats not true..most start fusing at age 4=7
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-02-14 6:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1261
| Bibliafarm - 2016-02-14 4:16 PM
wishes4kissez - 2016-02-14 5:31 PM I had this issue with my mare when she was about 12. The lameness vet in our area that I was told is the best said almost every horse in hard work like barrels, cutting, reining etc has fully fuzed hocks by age 5 and it's not an issue at all. Maybe that's not correct I don't know. My mare has been off for 3 years waiting for her hocks to fuze. I did alcohol injections twice and some other type of injection he did for free just to see if it would help. I spent at least 1500 on all that and she's the same three years later being out to pasture as she was before I did anything. The only thing I can see makes any difference in her is putting her on chia seeds and making sure she's somewhere where she moves around but she also has osteoarthritis in both hocks. thats not true..most start fusing at age 4=7
But it is normal and not a big problem in most horses? I am looking at prospects in the age group now and I am terrified to end up with another lame horse I can't use. I know there's never any promises with horses but I want to do my due diligence. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Fusing is normal yes..some horses handle it better and others need injected or alternative stuff... it can be painful. and some horses dont show much pain. its a horse by horse situation.. some need injected yearly others every 6 months. talk to another vet, get xrays and see and make your decision.. and then there are horses that dont completely fuse for years..and there are some that have clean xrays .. I just want to clarify that all horses arent fully fused like your vet said by 5
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-02-14 7:44 PM
|
|
| |
Folks on-line