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boon
Posts: 1
| My horse has become herd sour and I have him in training and need some advice on the best way to get him over it. He works great until the other horse whinny and he loses all focus and freaks out. I've tried telling my parents he needs to be separated from the horses completely and out of sight to them but they say just make him work through it? What are your thoughts? |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
  
Location: Midwest | I rode a mare like that for a friend... I kept her out of the main herd when I was riding her. She was stalled and turned out seperately. She got MUCH better but was never totally over it. I didn't ride her for very long, just did a tune up. She had been turned out for like 10 years not having to work, so at first she just thought she'd rather die LOL... but she got WAY better... I think I only rode her for a few months one summer (it was a long time ago).
I'd pen him seperate for a while. You probably could work through it, but this will make your life easier IMO |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| If they are young and just getting started, I simply get their attention back and keep doing what we were doing. A lot of times you can bump the rein or say something to get them to refocus on you. But if they don't, put them to work a little to make them pay attention, then go back to it. When we start them in the round pen the horses are close so they learn pretty quick to pay attention to us or they have to work. Our arena is near our barn, so when we are riding our horses can see the rest of the herd. And honestly, some horses just take more work than others when it comes to this. One of our geldings used to be really bad when you'd ride away from the other horses out gathering cattle or at a jackpot. We just had to stay after him, and he finally got over it. I personally don't like to pick a fight with one (unless they really need it) because then I think they lose confidence in you.
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| I've found tying them and letting them stand for a few hours a day works wonders on the ones I've had. Teaches them patience. They prance and whinny for the first few hours (or sometimes days. *eye roll*) but they get over it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Being buddy or herd sour is probably the worst thing in my mind. I hate it! Rode a horse for someone that was extremely bad(they hauled them and I ran her) they eventually had to have them completely separate and not see each other at all. Which was hard at races but she got a lot better. They ended up selling her buddy which helped too! Just keep the horse busy and getting the attention back and keep them separated. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Horses are herd animals.
I don't think keeping them separate is the answer as you can cause the horse to develop ulcers.
I find with young ones they want a buddy because they don't have the confidence to be by themselves.
I work mine through it. But instead of adding pressure for them to do a specific task I release the pressure and move their feet. I will trot around the pasture, in the arena until they have settled down and regrouped. Then I go back to the task I was trying to accomplish. |
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| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-10 12:16 PM
Horses are herd animals.
I don't think keeping them separate is the answer as you can cause the horse to develop ulcers.
I find with young ones they want a buddy because they don't have the confidence to be by themselves.
I work mine through it. But instead of adding pressure for them to do a specific task I release the pressure and move their feet. I will trot around the pasture, in the arena until they have settled down and regrouped. Then I go back to the task I was trying to accomplish.
I don't know why you got a dislike on this one, Cheryl. I have found that keeping them separate does not always work. Most people don't have big enough places to keep them far enough apart. I've had a couple in the past that just totally freaked if they were by themselves (out of sight). One was pretty bad to try to ride, so I did the keep the feet busy thing. It takes a few times and it can take 2-3 hours each session--so be very patient. I don't abuse or punish because that doesn't work. I will ride him/her close to where his buddies are and where he wants to go, but I will just keep him moving. Stay in the area and just walk, trot, lope circles, figure 8's, whatever. Stay with it until he relaxes and is not worrying about his buddies. Make the place where his buddies are the place of the most work. It will take a bit of time and some refreshers once and awhile, but it can work.
I have to convince them that they will work harder next to their buddies. If I continue trying to work them away from the buddies, they just never settle down. In my experience. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | I agree this is a frustrating issue to deal with but many nfr and prorodeo horses are buddy sour. Why do you think so many haul another horse, especially miniatures with them :)
I also find that tying for awhile before riding helps. I tie for 30 min to an hour everyday. I also use that time to clean feet and groom. Usually a horse will tell you while grooming if they are ready to ride or need more time to focus on their job. |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| MO gal - 2014-04-10 1:05 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-10 12:16 PM Horses are herd animals. I don't think keeping them separate is the answer as you can cause the horse to develop ulcers. I find with young ones they want a buddy because they don't have the confidence to be by themselves. I work mine through it. But instead of adding pressure for them to do a specific task I release the pressure and move their feet. I will trot around the pasture, in the arena until they have settled down and regrouped. Then I go back to the task I was trying to accomplish. I don't know why you got a dislike on this one, Cheryl. I have found that keeping them separate does not always work. Most people don't have big enough places to keep them far enough apart. I've had a couple in the past that just totally freaked if they were by themselves (out of sight ). One was pretty bad to try to ride, so I did the keep the feet busy thing. It takes a few times and it can take 2-3 hours each session--so be very patient. I don't abuse or punish because that doesn't work. I will ride him/her close to where his buddies are and where he wants to go, but I will just keep him moving. Stay in the area and just walk, trot, lope circles, figure 8's, whatever. Stay with it until he relaxes and is not worrying about his buddies. Make the place where his buddies are the place of the most work. It will take a bit of time and some refreshers once and awhile, but it can work. I have to convince them that they will work harder next to their buddies. If I continue trying to work them away from the buddies, they just never settle down. In my experience.
I don't like to have any horse completely alone, but if one gets too attached to another I will change the pasture arrangements. I find the stress of moving over one pasture and with one or two new buddies, even if they were just with these other horses a month or two before, to be stressful enough. I have one who must have a buddy, tho he learned that the buddy will change. I have one who cannot be pastured with anyone else and he's learned to deal with that fine. He does hang out across the fence from whoever he is pastured next to. They all do need to learn to WORK alone, and not look for reassurance from herdmates, but instead the human working with them. Which means that the human needs to be a strong and fair leader at all times for the insecure horse. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1008
| What about one who will ride away fine but completely freak out if left alone in the pasture or at the trailer? He even tries to herd me away from catching the other horse and starts pacing as soon as I do get the other one caught. I don't have the option to separate him...would love to sell but my husband won't. The one time he was left alone at home he rammed the gate the entire time trying to get out.... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| ImaSparkyAce - 2014-04-10 7:13 PM
What about one who will ride away fine but completely freak out if left alone in the pasture or at the trailer? He even tries to herd me away from catching the other horse and starts pacing as soon as I do get the other one caught. I don't have the option to separate him...would love to sell but my husband won't. The one time he was left alone at home he rammed the gate the entire time trying to get out....
I don't leave one completely alone in the pasture.
I will take one out of the pasture and tie to a tree 1/4 mile out of sight and leave him there for a few hours checking on him occasionally. Once he has settled then I will brush him and give him grain then turn him out in the pasture. I do this before I start hauling as I don't want a destroyed trailer.
For a horse herding the other horses away, then they all run. I will keep them moving until one by one they start licking their lips dropping their head. Once they have given in, I will cut them out and keep running the other horses.
My horses know I am boss because I do this, I don't tolerate hard to catch horses. With my methods it took me a few hours the first time, then it shortened until now no one runs. I do this on 20 acres.
I also will catch all my horses tie them up and give them their grain tied up instead of loose.
I go out in the heard with a brush and just brush the horses with the emphasis on the harder to catch horses.
There are ways, but you have to be willing to put the time and effort into the training process.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-04-10 7:42 PM
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boon
Posts: 4
| Sounds like you're on the right track. It's not a behavior to ignore, but for a young person it can be scary. This is not an original idea, read it in a book somewhere but it seems to work for some horses. Find someone to pair up with you and ride out into an open area where your horses can see other. Ride for awhile then turn your horses away from each other and walk away. When your horse gets antsy, stop, pet him, turn him around and calmly walk him back. Keep doing this over and over getting farther and farther away. The reward is the stop, the punishment is the walk all the way back. Pretty soon (if all works as planned) you'll be able to get out of eyesight of one another. This is a baby step, baby step process, not an overnight, so be patient. It does work! |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | Iowafarmgal - 2014-04-11 3:41 AM
Sounds like you're on the right track. It's not a behavior to ignore, but for a young person it can be scary. This is not an original idea, read it in a book somewhere but it seems to work for some horses. Find someone to pair up with you and ride out into an open area where your horses can see other. Ride for awhile then turn your horses away from each other and walk away. When your horse gets antsy, stop, pet him, turn him around and calmly walk him back. Keep doing this over and over getting farther and farther away. The reward is the stop, the punishment is the walk all the way back. Pretty soon (if all works as planned) you'll be able to get out of eyesight of one another. This is a baby step, baby step process, not an overnight, so be patient. It does work!
Not challenging you here, but I would think the reward was to then see my friend again and meet back up? And I'm not nearly patient enough for this approach lol :)
I find this to be one of the more frustrating issues ever. I can't stand the never ending hollering and pawing and freaking out over something I can't communicate to my horse.
So this is what I do:
I have always separated horses and put them on a stall schedule. They either go out with a new herd or I divide the one I have. I agree with Cheryl, a horse is a herd animal and I don't feel like being alone all of the time is in their nature. Or I put them on a strict exercise schedule so they can then rely on, "I'm going to be gone from my BFF for 2hrs a day right after feeding time." I usually find that the schedule gets them confident being alone AND knowing that they will then be reunited soon. The sooner they get relaxed and comfortable, the sooner I return back to their friends. I never ever bring them back to see their buddies when they are hollering and prancing around to get to them because in my opinion that is their reward by acting like a nut!
ETA: When I say a strict exercise schedule, what I mean is loping circles and long trotting etc. very easy things that they know and can accomplish. I won't even bother trying to teach them something new when they are in this panicked state because it is totally pointless.
Edited by Crowned Image 2014-04-11 8:36 AM
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| ImaSparkyAce - 2014-04-10 7:13 PM
What about one who will ride away fine but completely freak out if left alone in the pasture or at the trailer? He even tries to herd me away from catching the other horse and starts pacing as soon as I do get the other one caught. I don't have the option to separate him...would love to sell but my husband won't. The one time he was left alone at home he rammed the gate the entire time trying to get out....
That's why I have a mini donkey - to babysit. Worth his weight in gold. Well, no he's too fat, only about 1/2 his weight in gold. LOL
He will even haul with us if need be.
Edited to add that I do find catching every day whether it is to ride, brush or just to stand tied for a while is really good to help with this also.
Edited by MO gal 2014-04-11 8:08 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Just to clarify, when I pen or stall one, they are still near other horses... they can still see them... they are just in the individual stall or pen, and it was with different horses than their pasturemates (ie she was not totally alone in the barn). It seemed to help a lot with the mare I worked with, and eventually she was put back with her original herd. She still fussed a bit at first, but she calmed down.
For hard to catch horses, cheryl brought up some good points too. Personally I always have brought my horse in and given him some grain (usually after riding him), and he's always been easy to catch, even when out with other horses (boarding stable) that were difficult.
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