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 Expert
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| When I bought my horse last summer she had just recently been injected BOTH upper and lower joints. The vet said he never does just one , but both are needed to be most effective. My performance vet has a different take. After 10 months she needed to be done again, but she only did the LOWERS. She explained that she starts there and will only do both if needed. The horse has no real issues and is sound on flex test. But due to her age (12) and what she is used for, both vets recommended they be done. Just one says to do only do lowers and one says you have to do both upper and lower. Any ideas? |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
 
Location: North Dakota | In my opinion, if you have inflammation in one joint space, there is going to be inflammation in both. They are just too close to each other anatomically. I'd inject both upper and lower.
....If the horse is sound and has no issues, why did the performance vet inject in the first place? Now THAT confuses me. I believe you should only inject the hocks when it is needed .... not "just because".
Edited by r_beau 2017-05-09 12:48 PM
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| I have always done both. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Both |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | both |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| r_beau - 2017-05-09 10:45 AM
In my opinion, if you have inflammation in one joint space, there is going to be inflammation in both. They are just too close to each other anatomically. I'd inject both upper and lower.
....If the horse is sound and has no issues, why did the performance vet inject in the first place? Now THAT confuses me. I believe you should only inject the hocks when it is needed .... not "just because".
Vet said because of how hard she works, etc that it was justified. He is one awesome vet and is not out to make millions. I trust him. Next appointment I will ask for clarification! LOL Thanks to everyone else who responded. Looks like Both should be done next time she needs it. |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | FLITASTIC - 2017-05-09 12:44 PM
When I bought my horse last summer she had just recently been injected BOTH upper and lower joints. The vet said he never does just one , but both are needed to be most effective. My performance vet has a different take. After 10 months she needed to be done again, but she only did the LOWERS. She explained that she starts there and will only do both if needed. The horse has no real issues and is sound on flex test. But due to her age (12) and what she is used for, both vets recommended they be done. Just one says to do only do lowers and one says you have to do both upper and lower. Any ideas?
Great question !
Most vets Ive used won't do the upper joint unless a positive flexion indicates a need for it. (Since lower joints don't usually flex pos.).
Since the upper joint is a high motion joint you don't want to have to Inject unless absolutely necessary.
I also wonder how many vets inject the middle joint (proximal Intertarsal). Most vets say the PI and TiT communicate 80% of the time. From my experience it's the opposite, they only communicate about 10-20% of the time. Seems like the middle joint is where most of the discomfort comes from. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| Liana D - 2017-05-09 12:28 PM
FLITASTIC - 2017-05-09 12:44 PM
When I bought my horse last summer she had just recently been injected BOTH upper and lower joints. The vet said he never does just one , but both are needed to be most effective. My performance vet has a different take. After 10 months she needed to be done again, but she only did the LOWERS. She explained that she starts there and will only do both if needed. The horse has no real issues and is sound on flex test. But due to her age (12) and what she is used for, both vets recommended they be done. Just one says to do only do lowers and one says you have to do both upper and lower. Any ideas?
Great question !
Most vets Ive used won't do the upper joint unless a positive flexion indicates a need for it. (Since lower joints don't usually flex pos. ).
Since the upper joint is a high motion joint you don't want to have to Inject unless absolutely necessary.
I also wonder how many vets inject the middle joint (proximal Intertarsal ). Most vets say the PI and TiT communicate 80% of the time. From my experience it's the opposite, they only communicate about 10-20% of the time. Seems like the middle joint is where most of the discomfort comes from.
Your right, there is my answer!!! If she passed flex test thats probably why she only did lower joints. Who knows why the first vet did both, she flexed good then to. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | I've learned that you do both. I had an older mare (17) done this March and the vet only did lower hocks. Another vet was in my area that is really well respected and in late April I wanted to see if the injections took and we did another exam on her and she needed a 2nd round of injections and he is a firm believer in doing both upper an lower. He says that if you have inflammation in one joint then more than likely the rest has been compensating for a long time and you'll have some inflammation in the rest. And she is 110% better after the 2nd set of injections. |
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 Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | always do both - always had both injected.
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | FLITASTIC - 2017-05-09 1:17 PM r_beau - 2017-05-09 10:45 AM In my opinion, if you have inflammation in one joint space, there is going to be inflammation in both. They are just too close to each other anatomically. I'd inject both upper and lower.
....If the horse is sound and has no issues, why did the performance vet inject in the first place? Now THAT confuses me. I believe you should only inject the hocks when it is needed .... not "just because".
Vet said because of how hard she works, etc that it was justified. He is one awesome vet and is not out to make millions. I trust him. Next appointment I will ask for clarification! LOL Thanks to everyone else who responded. Looks like Both should be done next time she needs it.
And in my opinion, that is not a justified reason to inject a joint. You should inject a joint when the horse has a problem with lameness, either in poor performance on the pattern or something showed up on flexions, or a combination.
Not because "they work hard".
JMO.
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| I stay out of the top joints as much as possible (I stay out of any joint as much as possible!). I won't do both "just because". And no, not all of them communicate. On some horses they do and on some they don't. This is something they can check for on each particular horse. Like they do when they're determining if chemical fusion is a possible treatment option on certain horses. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | The two joints we commonly inject are the DIT and TMT which I think are what people consider the uppers and lowers because the DIT is above the TMT. The truly proximal joints in the hock rarely get injected.
The DIT is the harder of the two joints to inject and is often the one that closes first, and will become harder to get a needle into as the joint fuses. The TMT you can usually get a needle in. You should at least try to inject both the DIT and TMT, but sometimes it doesn't happen. And some vets prefer just to inject the TMT because the TMT and DIT can communicate 35-40% of the time. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Liana D - 2017-05-09 2:28 PM
FLITASTIC - 2017-05-09 12:44 PM
When I bought my horse last summer she had just recently been injected BOTH upper and lower joints. The vet said he never does just one , but both are needed to be most effective. My performance vet has a different take. After 10 months she needed to be done again, but she only did the LOWERS. She explained that she starts there and will only do both if needed. The horse has no real issues and is sound on flex test. But due to her age (12) and what she is used for, both vets recommended they be done. Just one says to do only do lowers and one says you have to do both upper and lower. Any ideas?
Great question !
Most vets Ive used won't do the upper joint unless a positive flexion indicates a need for it. (Since lower joints don't usually flex pos. ).
Since the upper joint is a high motion joint you don't want to have to Inject unless absolutely necessary.
I also wonder how many vets inject the middle joint (proximal Intertarsal ). Most vets say the PI and TiT communicate 80% of the time. From my experience it's the opposite, they only communicate about 10-20% of the time. Seems like the middle joint is where most of the discomfort comes from.
the PIT communicates with the tarsocrural joint so you would just inject the tarsocrural if you had to, but that is the high motion joint of the hock and hopefully no one here needs that one injected. Usually when swelling and lameness is associated that far proximal theres something more going on like OCD or something along those lines.
The PIT does not communicate with the DIT.
The DIT and the TMT communicate 35-40% of the time. The DIT and TMT are the two we inject most often. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Liana D - 2017-05-09 3:28 PM
FLITASTIC - 2017-05-09 12:44 PM
When I bought my horse last summer she had just recently been injected BOTH upper and lower joints. The vet said he never does just one , but both are needed to be most effective. My performance vet has a different take. After 10 months she needed to be done again, but she only did the LOWERS. She explained that she starts there and will only do both if needed. The horse has no real issues and is sound on flex test. But due to her age (12) and what she is used for, both vets recommended they be done. Just one says to do only do lowers and one says you have to do both upper and lower. Any ideas?
Great question !
Most vets Ive used won't do the upper joint unless a positive flexion indicates a need for it. (Since lower joints don't usually flex pos. ).
Since the upper joint is a high motion joint you don't want to have to Inject unless absolutely necessary.
I also wonder how many vets inject the middle joint (proximal Intertarsal ). Most vets say the PI and TiT communicate 80% of the time. From my experience it's the opposite, they only communicate about 10-20% of the time. Seems like the middle joint is where most of the discomfort comes from.
My vet I use for local things does all 3 especially on older performances horses. Rood and Riddle, UT, and other places in my neck of the woods do not tho |
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