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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
   
Location: Louisiana | Without going into a ton of detail and writing a book on my gelding...can we talk about signs/symptoms of COPD?
Can a COPD horse also be a bleeder? Is it "safe" to give them lasix? Or does the COPD need to be treated and will that help the bleeding issue?
I ran one COPD horse when I was in HS, we didn't own it. I remember giving him multiple meds daily and two IV before he ran. I only ran him for about 2 months to finish out the season because my horse had coliced.
My vet mentioned COPD when I was telling him all of the different things I was noticing with my gelding, but I haven't had him out to the barn yet this spring to check everyone out.
In the meantime, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions here, since BHW knows all. THANKS! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | By no means am I an expert...but I’ve got an older horse with respiratory issues (mostly just coughing, allergies etc) and I’ve done a lot of research. He’s never really been bad enough to where I’ve had him scoped or needed to put on meds. He’s always been well enough to be ridden. Most of what I have read and seen in a family members horse as far treating with antibiotics, steroids, ventipulmin, they never really treat the problem. They are a temporary band aid to make the horse better and it just turns into a never ending cycle. Of course if the horse gets bad enough it’s necessary, but you mostly have to find a way to manage it through the horses environment. Finding grain that they can tolerate, wetting/steaming hay, controlling as much dust in the horses environment as possible. Turn them out. If they come inside wet the stall, isle, everything down. Some horses can’t tolerate alfalfa hay. Some have to be on cubes. It’s just trial and error. I’ve tried many supplements and the thing that has worked the best is flaxseed. I like to give windaid before I run. It seems to work as good as anything, but it just depends on the horse. Sorry I don’t have any advice for a bleeder. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| dashnlotti - 2018-03-23 9:16 AM
Without going into a ton of detail and writing a book on my gelding...can we talk about signs/symptoms of COPD?
Can a COPD horse also be a bleeder? Is it "safe" to give them lasix? Or does the COPD need to be treated and will that help the bleeding issue?
I ran one COPD horse when I was in HS, we didn't own it. I remember giving him multiple meds daily and two IV before he ran. I only ran him for about 2 months to finish out the season because my horse had coliced.
My vet mentioned COPD when I was telling him all of the different things I was noticing with my gelding, but I haven't had him out to the barn yet this spring to check everyone out.
In the meantime, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions here, since BHW knows all. THANKS!
 along with a scope and BAL to confirm cell cytology, a horse that has COPD is also classified as having a higher respiratory rate and heaving sides while at rest. If their resting rate is higher and flaring nostrils they put a horse in the COPD category. If their average resting respiratory rate is normal they aren't classified as COPD yet but just the precursor inflammatory airway disease. Most horses with some sort of compromise with their respiratory system will have a lot higher chance at being a bleeder. As long as the COPD horse is managed and the disease is put into remission I think they can be ran and I would also use Lasix in my opinion. |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | Thank you both.
He definitely isn't "bad" at this point, but I would certainly want to prevent and manage. The main thing I have noticed the past couple of months getting him legged up, he just seems TIRED. Not lazy, that isn't him lol, but tired and just lacking his normal amount of energy.
He bled out last summer, and I treated him and took a big break, I didn't ride anything for several months. I got him in good shape, and ran him last month and he didn't bleed out, but I'm pretty certain he bled again so I did everything as if he had. He didn't have his normal fire in that run, I could tell a difference.
The main thing with the lasix, I didn't know if it would effect or worsen any other issues he could have going on. But I also think he has something else causing him to bleed.
It sounds from your description he's likely at the IAD stage and not full blown COPD.
I have been riding him some, but I'll wait to run him until I get my vet back out bc I do want to get to the bottom of his issues. He's a nice one and I don't want to risk his health for a few runs!
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Â that's is good news to hear he isn't struggling to bad. Maybe get a BAL and scope to see what cell profile is present. That'll give you a better idea what form of lower airway inflammation he has and how to treat and manage it long term. |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-03-23 12:31 PM
 that's is good news to hear he isn't struggling to bad. Maybe get a BAL and scope to see what cell profile is present. That'll give you a better idea what form of lower airway inflammation he has and how to treat and manage it long term.
Thank you! |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| TheDutchMan01 - 2018-03-23 11:25 AMBy no means am I an expert...but I’ve got an older horse with respiratory issues (mostly just coughing, allergies etc) and I’ve done a lot of research. He’s never really been bad enough to where I’ve had him scoped or needed to put on meds. He’s always been well enough to be ridden. Most of what I have read and seen in a family members horse as far treating with antibiotics, steroids, ventipulmin, they never really treat the problem. They are a temporary band aid to make the horse better and it just turns into a never ending cycle. Of course if the horse gets bad enough it’s necessary, but you mostly have to find a way to manage it through the horses environment. Finding grain that they can tolerate, wetting/steaming hay, controlling as much dust in the horses environment as possible. Turn them out. If they come inside wet the stall, isle, everything down. Some horses can’t tolerate alfalfa hay. Some have to be on cubes. It’s just trial and error. I’ve tried many supplements and the thing that has worked the best is flaxseed. I like to give windaid before I run. It seems to work as good as anything, but it just depends on the horse. Sorry I don’t have any advice for a bleeder.  I agree completely. I have an older gelding with COPD. He is off of hay completely. Doing so saved his life. No dex, no Bronchodilators, no Goofy supplements. Just no hay. My other gelding has IAD. He's a trick too and is off of hay completely at 8 years old. Just was not worth the chance of future damage. I'm excited his BALs are coming back with in normal limits. It's feels like I conquered a war! Lol how'd I get so lucky to have two lol.. Both mine get half alfalfa cubes and half Chaffhaye (which I love because it's like regular hay but is fermented silage. It incorporates the long stem needed it their diet to lower the risk of colic.) but for some people watering down hay maybe enough to help control it. Unfortunately for mine it was not.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2018-03-23 1:34 PM
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | You might PM "Herbie" on here and ask her about her horse and what she did to help him. |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | total performance - 2018-03-23 2:23 PM
You might PM "Herbie" on here and ask her about her horse and what she did to help him. Â
I already have my other horse on CurOst :)
He's on month 3 and I've actually been able to ride him with no limping.
Can't afford it for this one quite yet, but have been wanting to start him on it anyway. My vet is totally on board with herbal remedies when they make sense, so I'll wait and see what he thinks is going on and go from there. I won't be running him in the meantime.
Thank you! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | dashnlotti - 2018-03-23 12:25 PM
Thank you both.
He definitely isn't "bad" at this point, but I would certainly want to prevent and manage. The main thing I have noticed the past couple of months getting him legged up, he just seems TIRED. Not lazy, that isn't him lol, but tired and just lacking his normal amount of energy.
He bled out last summer, and I treated him and took a big break, I didn't ride anything for several months. I got him in good shape, and ran him last month and he didn't bleed out, but I'm pretty certain he bled again so I did everything as if he had. He didn't have his normal fire in that run, I could tell a difference.
The main thing with the lasix, I didn't know if it would effect or worsen any other issues he could have going on. But I also think he has something else causing him to bleed.
It sounds from your description he's likely at the IAD stage and not full blown COPD.
I have been riding him some, but I'll wait to run him until I get my vet back out bc I do want to get to the bottom of his issues. He's a nice one and I don't want to risk his health for a few runs!
I was having that issue with mine he just didn’t seem to have much every and was putting his head down wanting to stop. I thought it was his breathing but I took him to the vet and I think most of it had to do with his sternum and withers being out of wack. Which made sense because he didn’t want to stride out. I’ve only rode him once since I had him adjusted and he felt better than he has in a awhile, but we’ll see.
Lasix shouldn’t hurt anything it’s just a diuretic.
Just curious what sex are your horses with respiratory issues? I’ve noticed a lot seem to be geildings. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | dashnlotti - 2018-03-23 2:19 PM
total performance - 2018-03-23 2:23 PM
You might PM "Herbie" on here and ask her about her horse and what she did to help him. Â
I already have my other horse on CurOst : )
He's on month 3 and I've actually been able to ride him with no limping.
Can't afford it for this one quite yet, but have been wanting to start him on it anyway. My vet is totally on board with herbal remedies when they make sense, so I'll wait and see what he thinks is going on and go from there. I won't be running him in the meantime.
Thank you!
Might look into THE COPD formula for him. It's affordable. From one of the best (the best in my humble opinion) herbal supplement companies. https://www.grazingbitperformancehorses.com/product-page/copd-formul... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | I don’t know where you are in LA but I know it’s pretty common in south LA. LSU has a huge equine studies program on COPD/SPAOPD. I know someone down there who’s horse is just starting with the early signs of COPD. When I lived down there I had 2 horses get it. I’m a huge Cur-Ost fan and big believer in non-processed feeds. Can’t hurt to email Dr. Schell - he’s answered all of my emails. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Just an FYI, I live in the southern coastal region and I thought mine had COPD or allergy issues and scoping showed they had nasopharyngeal cicatrix-a condition that mimicks COPD but causes scarring on the larynx to the point that a trachea can be needed if not treated. It is a reaction to something they graze on, research had yet to find the exact cause and it is hit or miss if the vaccine will stop the progress, luckily mine responded to it. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | I have a horse with COPD. And it was a lot of trial and error. I did do the Curost and love but could not keep up with the price. And then I came across the Forefront resp. and that has been awesome! and I could afford. I became a dealer bc it worked so well with him. I do have to give him 1 scoop in the am and pm. Some horses can get by with just one scoop a day. Also I did do an allergy test and took a way a couple other things and that helped even more! but I still have to do the forefront. Good luck! it can be very frustrating on what direction to go! |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | Going to look into all of your suggestions!
I'll say I did move my horses to a different pasture, and another horse with some skin issues is already looking better - so maybe there was something out there??
But anyway, I will have my vet check him out and see what's going on...as well as look into possible chiro issues like one person experienced! |
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