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Member
Posts: 7
| I've got a stud colt I've started that I'm having trouble keeping forward motion around drums. He wants to loss motion and stop and snap. I've been tieing him round to also round up his ribs. And cause he is pretty arrogant. Please help | |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
   
Location: WYOMING | I dont really think tying one around helps with rounding the middle. I think they really need to be taught how to step out and move their hindend freely at all gaits, then you start adding shoulder control back in the mix. Only then can you really get true flexion thru the body.
That being said... could be a number of things causing this... and it also could just be his style. | |
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Member
Posts: 7
| Hardest part is we have heaps of shoulder control especially at pace. It's like maybe he over rating. Especially in a heavy pen. He is very broke to ride can move his hip where I like and great flexion through his body. Which is making it frustrating ?? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| Start by going in bigger circles when moving out. If he won't move out, a kick to the ribcage with a spur can really encourage one. Pair it with a loud smooch so they associate the smooch with needing to move forward. Don't worry about shape as much at first. Worry about feet moving forward and not sticking. Once you get the feet going, then try to get the ribcage bend. If he gets sticky again, stop worrying about shape and get the feet moving again. Once the feet are moving again, try for shape. This may take several attempts. Once you get this at a larger circle, bring it in closer. Again start with getting the feet going forward, then ask for shape. It is difficult to do both at the same time at first, especially when they don't want to move out. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Calla1m - 2014-08-07 5:13 PM I've got a stud colt I've started that I'm having trouble keeping forward motion around drums. He wants to loss motion and stop and snap. I've been tieing him round to also round up his ribs. And cause he is pretty arrogant. Please help
How long has this colt been broke? And how well broke is he? How old of a colt is he? | |
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Location: South Dakota | 3 To Go - 2014-08-07 5:54 PM Start by going in bigger circles when moving out. If he won't move out, a kick to the ribcage with a spur can really encourage one. Pair it with a loud smooch so they associate the smooch with needing to move forward. Don't worry about shape as much at first. Worry about feet moving forward and not sticking. Once you get the feet going, then try to get the ribcage bend. If he gets sticky again, stop worrying about shape and get the feet moving again. Once the feet are moving again, try for shape. This may take several attempts. Once you get this at a larger circle, bring it in closer. Again start with getting the feet going forward, then ask for shape. It is difficult to do both at the same time at first, especially when they don't want to move out.
^^^ This...forward motion fixes a lot of issues... | |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | I'm having the same issue with my 4 y/o.
I took him to my trainer friend yesterday and she helped me tons.
For mine...he is stalling out b/c he also already has shoulder control, so he is trying to cross-over in the front, losing momentum, trying to rock back into a spin.
Not sure if this is your issue, but mine just didn't understand forward and around. To fix this, my homework is to hold his head, hold (and use as needed) inside leg, and trot circles until he holds the frame himself, then let him trot out straight and repeat the opposite direction. Holding his face is actually hold and release...so your hands will be wide (feels really weird!), outside rein is loose, inside rein is "released" at your thigh, picked up to your hip. The reins are not really fully given back (not enough that he feels he's done). Pick up to hip, when he gives, release to thigh. The goal is that the horse will trot an even circle with cadence, and his head will stay to the inside.
I wrote this between screaming children and cooking dinner, so I hope it makes sense.
Hope it helps some!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| "I've been tieing him round to also round up his ribs."
You may be meaning something entirely different than I'm imagining with this sentence, but if you are actually tying your horse's head around (like to his stirrup for instance) and leaving him to sit there, you need to stop doing that. Not only is it cruel, it's a useless "technique."
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-08 6:26 AM "I've been tieing him round to also round up his ribs." You may be meaning something entirely different than I'm imagining with this sentence, but if you are actually tying your horse's head around (like to his stirrup for instance) and leaving him to sit there, you need to stop doing that. Not only is it cruel, it's a useless "technique."
Our neighbor broke his horses neck doing this. He is not sure exactly what happened but left him tied to the stirrup and came back to find him dead. | |
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Regular
Posts: 71
| Calla1m - 2014-08-07 5:13 PM
I've got a stud colt I've started that I'm having trouble keeping forward motion around drums. He wants to loss motion and stop and snap. I've been tieing him round to also round up his ribs. And cause he is pretty arrogant. Please help
I do Corkscrews to teach them to drive - I do it without barrels and then once they have the hang of it I add barrels
Basically lope a big circle and get smaller with each lap - instead of breaking to a trot in the small circle - drive them with spurs/whip - once the circle is really tight (almost like a spin) sprint them out of it about 15 ft - walk a few laps and repeat each side
Eventually throw a barrel in the center - make sure you smooch to them when you start driving - that way when you are making a run and smooch on the back side they will relate to what you want and drive out... | |
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Veteran
Posts: 294
| Let him have his head and work on getting his hip in. make sure he is working off that inside hind when he is going around the barrel. If he is using his inside correctly he won't lose momentum. If your holding his head too much its going to make his ass end swing out and thats when you will lose the forward motion. Ride his back end more. | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Guiness - 2014-08-08 7:48 AM
Let him have his head and work on getting his hip in. make sure he is working off that inside hind when he is going around the barrel. If he is using his inside correctly he won't lose momentum. If your holding his head too much its going to make his ass end swing out and thats when you will lose the forward motion. Ride his back end more.
This. ^^
Riding a push style horse like you're describing is a bit like pulling a long trailer, you have to stay straighter longer to make the turn properly, and make sure the far back tires make the curb.
Stop tinkering with his face, do more with your legs (especially outside leg) to shove him up into the turn. Tip his nose, help on the backside, but shoot for less.
Also, don't practice close to the barrel. Make him stay 10-15 feet off the barrel, I promise this distance tightens up in a run. You could do the normal 3-5 feet maybe 1 in 10 go throughs. Too much barrel time gets them shutting down harder too, anticipating the work. Try working push colts maybe 2x a week on the pattern itself. You can still practice barrels, just use one barrel or set them in a line. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | rodeomom3 - 2014-08-08 7:08 AM SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-08 6:26 AM "I've been tieing him round to also round up his ribs." You may be meaning something entirely different than I'm imagining with this sentence, but if you are actually tying your horse's head around (like to his stirrup for instance) and leaving him to sit there, you need to stop doing that. Not only is it cruel, it's a useless "technique." Our neighbor broke his horses neck doing this. He is not sure exactly what happened but left him tied to the stirrup and came back to find him dead.
It's disturbing the number of horses with damaged necks from being tied around or back. Soft tissue and bone.
My finished gelding has a tendency to want to do what you're describing. A lot of inside leg helps, along with the occasional application of a dressage whip to his butt when he needs to be reminded to KEEP MOVING FORWARD. I've also started doing more long and low with a snaffle and split reins at a walk and trot, asking him to reach down and forward for the bit with elevated shoulders and a big push from behind, getting him to not just move forward, but grab ground aggressively. My legs are extremely sore right now from doing this at a walk around trees, barrels, and poles. LOL | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| classicpotatochip - 2014-08-08 9:21 AM
Guiness - 2014-08-08 7:48 AM
Let him have his head and work on getting his hip in. make sure he is working off that inside hind when he is going around the barrel. If he is using his inside correctly he won't lose momentum. If your holding his head too much its going to make his ass end swing out and thats when you will lose the forward motion. Ride his back end more.
This. ^^
Riding a push style horse like you're describing is a bit like pulling a long trailer, you have to stay straighter longer to make the turn properly, and make sure the far back tires make the curb.
Stop tinkering with his face, do more with your legs (especially outside leg ) to shove him up into the turn. Tip his nose, help on the backside, but shoot for less.
Also, don't practice close to the barrel. Make him stay 10-15 feet off the barrel, I promise this distance tightens up in a run. You could do the normal 3-5 feet maybe 1 in 10 go throughs. Too much barrel time gets them shutting down harder too, anticipating the work. Try working push colts maybe 2x a week on the pattern itself. You can still practice barrels, just use one barrel or set them in a line.
My gelding is recently back from being at the trainer for 60 days, and was not started on the pattern prior to that, so barrels are completely new to him. He also kind of peters out on the 2nd barrel and I really have to push him. I also have a bad habit of letting him drift too close, and it widens our turn.
To help both of us (him with the continued forward motion through the turn, and me setting him up properly so that he CAN successfully turn the barrel nicely), I set up two barrels, at opposite ends of the ring. I lope the figure 8 pattern around the barrels. The distance between them helps me with the setting him up properly, and the continued lope, turn, lope, turn, lope, turn, gets him moving because he isn't anticipating a third barrel and then being done the pattern. It kind of hustles him so to speak, even though I'm not asking for more speed necessarily, I'm just really DRIVING him on those barrel turns. Then lope between, really drive around, lope between, really drive around. This has helped with him shutting down, and has gotten me used to setting him up properly, and more consistently. As you do this, and as he starts getting the hang of it, you move the barrels closer together, do it again. Closer together, do it again. Stop moving them closer when they are a little closer together than your standard pattern. This has really helped both of us. | |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I don't know, but I've used tying around during the first 30 rides, and then occasionally after that. When used with common sense, and loosely, so the horse isn't in a bind, it's extremely useful. You should never leave horse unattended, and it shouldn't be for more than 15 minutes either way. Get the reining book by Al Dunning, he has a fantastic section about doing this properly and safely.
It should be noted that tie arounds are useful for softening the face, but not for body work. Please get Mr Dunnings book, it is a very useful guide, and has training methods directly applicable to our barrel pattern. There's some pretty phenomenal pictures to showcase each drill, as well as tons of really great horsemanship rules. | |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | The old cowboy I went to for cutting and reined cow horse lessons believed that one, you never left them unattended tied around and two, you also didn't allow them to just stand around tied around. The first one being obvious and the second he didn't want them to learn that being flexed to the side meant stop your feet. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Tieing him around probably is not going to help your problem at all because you have got to teach him he must move his keep those front feet moving. He has got to stay straight, slow down, turn the barrel and all the while keep forward motion. Work on this at a walk in small circles focusing on him moving his front where you want them to go when YOU ask him to go there. Lateral side passes are also good for this. | |
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