|
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| The horse had her teeth done 2-3 weeks ago. She is 3 years old.
on the ground, this horse is a saint. She is not bomb proof, but she trusts me and she is extremely good on the ground- round penning, free lunging ect. Under saddle, I want to strangle her 75% of the time. She is extremely smart and talented. Only been ridden a handful of times. One minute I will ask her to do something and she will amaze me. The next, she is shaking her head, sulling up and throwing a hissy fit. I just keep asking until she tries and take the pressure away. For example, increasing speed: from a stand still, walk or trot. I will cue her by bumping her with my heels and she will ignore me, then I will smootch and bump her, she will ignore me until it bother her and then start shuffling faster, shaking her head and throwing a fit until she's going the speed I want and then when I take the pressure away for doing what I asked (moving forward), she will stop her fit throwing. I feel like I'm rewarding the bad behavior. Its not getting better lol. When I apply rein pressure, sometimes she will immediately respond and I will drop the rein. Sometimes she ignores me until it ****es her off and throw a fit, sometimes she will immediately throw a fit.
Am I doing something wrong? I don't jerk, I don't start with heavy pressure, I don't even increase my pressure when she ignores me anymore because then she really throws a fit when she gives. I feel like a total idiot. Not my first colt, not my 5th, but definitely the first time I have had this much attitude from one.
She has never bucked or anything like that, just head tossing and throwing herself around.
ETA she doesn't ALWAYS act like this under saddle, but like I said- 75% of the time...
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2015-10-25 8:53 PM
| |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| She may be getting bored.
I had one who hated working circles to the point where she would try and kill you on the fence, trees, anything she could.
It took me months to get her to lope circles, I started out loping one circle then putting her away, or going for a trail ride, the next day, two circles, and progressing this way, it worked, she was one who couldn't be bullied.
Increasing speed, if she isn't listening to my feet, she will be getting an over and under. If you keep kicking. You can dull their sides overtime.
For the turning if she does it good the first time, then I would do something else, then try the other side, if she does it good, I would quit on that till the next day.
Also check the bit, maybe she doesn't like the mouthpiece, I only use 3 pieces on my colts, I don't own a 2 piece bit.
Also I was taught with applying pressure to do a three step program, use one finger to initiate the stop/turn/etc if that doesn't work, use two fingers, if that doesn't work the whole hand, this will make the horse light in the mouth.
Also have you ground drove this horse, or bitted it up, she may need to do this to accept the bit. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2685
| thanks for the response.
She is in a 3 piece o-ring at the moment. I wondered about changing or trying a german martingale to give her an acceptable head carriage position as the source of release if that makes sense. I will try the finger thing. Maybe she needs me to start with even lighter contact and could be getting offended from the get go. I did start smacking her with the reins (split) when she would balk and throw a fit at movement. That seemed to get better quickly. I have bitted her up and she doesn't fuss too much by herself lol. Maybe a little bit but I think its the movement/ confusion that makes her mad. Sitting still I can flex her and ask her to break at the poll all day and she wont fuss. Walking, I can ask for her nose and she will give it, but its the changing sides or asking her to break at the poll moving forward ect. The fussiness just gets very old. Lunging, she will fuss for just a sec and quit, I guess when riding we do gait and direction changes so much that her "fuss for just a sec" happens so much that it makes me crazy, makes her crazy ect. I haven't whooped her for it but that's what I'm trying not to do. She's already mad lol. | |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RoaniePonie11 - 2015-10-25 9:12 PM
thanks for the response.
She is in a 3 piece o-ring at the moment. I wondered about changing or trying a german martingale to give her an acceptable head carriage position as the source of release if that makes sense. I will try the finger thing. Maybe she needs me to start with even lighter contact and could be getting offended from the get go. I did start smacking her with the reins (split) when she would balk and throw a fit at movement. That seemed to get better quickly. I have bitted her up and she doesn't fuss too much by herself lol. Maybe a little bit but I think its the movement/ confusion that makes her mad. Sitting still I can flex her and ask her to break at the poll all day and she wont fuss. Walking, I can ask for her nose and she will give it, but its the changing sides or asking her to break at the poll moving forward ect. The fussiness just gets very old. Lunging, she will fuss for just a sec and quit, I guess when riding we do gait and direction changes so much that her "fuss for just a sec" happens so much that it makes me crazy, makes her crazy ect. I haven't whooped her for it but that's what I'm trying not to do. She's already mad lol.
If she has only been ridden a few times, you may be asking too much out of her.
Ray Hunt had an exceptional quote that I cannot remember word for word, but the jist of it is we don't ask kindergarten kids grade 8 questions and expect them to know it so we shouldn't be asking it of our horses.
The first few weeks of rides on my horses, I don't care about head set, I ask them to follow their nose when turning, I try and get them confident on where their feet are, and comfortable in the gaits before asking head set, etc. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2685
| cheryl makofka - 2015-10-25 9:18 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2015-10-25 9:12 PM
thanks for the response.
She is in a 3 piece o-ring at the moment. I wondered about changing or trying a german martingale to give her an acceptable head carriage position as the source of release if that makes sense. I will try the finger thing. Maybe she needs me to start with even lighter contact and could be getting offended from the get go. I did start smacking her with the reins (split) when she would balk and throw a fit at movement. That seemed to get better quickly. I have bitted her up and she doesn't fuss too much by herself lol. Maybe a little bit but I think its the movement/ confusion that makes her mad. Sitting still I can flex her and ask her to break at the poll all day and she wont fuss. Walking, I can ask for her nose and she will give it, but its the changing sides or asking her to break at the poll moving forward ect. The fussiness just gets very old. Lunging, she will fuss for just a sec and quit, I guess when riding we do gait and direction changes so much that her "fuss for just a sec" happens so much that it makes me crazy, makes her crazy ect. I haven't whooped her for it but that's what I'm trying not to do. She's already mad lol.
If she has only been ridden a few times, you may be asking too much out of her.
Ray Hunt had an exceptional quote that I cannot remember word for word, but the jist of it is we don't ask kindergarten kids grade 8 questions and expect them to know it so we shouldn't be asking it of our horses.
The first few weeks of rides on my horses, I don't care about head set, I ask them to follow their nose when turning, I try and get them confident on where their feet are, and comfortable in the gaits before asking head set, etc.
So speak stupid to me- do you think I should just keep trucking and it see if she sorts herself out? | |
| | |
 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | It sounds like she doesn't really know what you want.
I used to ground drive all the colts. By the time I did step on them, they were pretty broke. Might try that. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2685
| Fun2Run - 2015-10-25 9:30 PM
It sounds like she doesn't really know what you want.
I used to ground drive all the colts. By the time I did step on them, they were pretty broke. Might try that.
I may try that. Never have ground drove one before. Hmmmm | |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RoaniePonie11 - 2015-10-25 9:22 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-10-25 9:18 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2015-10-25 9:12 PM
thanks for the response.
She is in a 3 piece o-ring at the moment. I wondered about changing or trying a german martingale to give her an acceptable head carriage position as the source of release if that makes sense. I will try the finger thing. Maybe she needs me to start with even lighter contact and could be getting offended from the get go. I did start smacking her with the reins (split) when she would balk and throw a fit at movement. That seemed to get better quickly. I have bitted her up and she doesn't fuss too much by herself lol. Maybe a little bit but I think its the movement/ confusion that makes her mad. Sitting still I can flex her and ask her to break at the poll all day and she wont fuss. Walking, I can ask for her nose and she will give it, but its the changing sides or asking her to break at the poll moving forward ect. The fussiness just gets very old. Lunging, she will fuss for just a sec and quit, I guess when riding we do gait and direction changes so much that her "fuss for just a sec" happens so much that it makes me crazy, makes her crazy ect. I haven't whooped her for it but that's what I'm trying not to do. She's already mad lol.
If she has only been ridden a few times, you may be asking too much out of her.
Ray Hunt had an exceptional quote that I cannot remember word for word, but the jist of it is we don't ask kindergarten kids grade 8 questions and expect them to know it so we shouldn't be asking it of our horses.
The first few weeks of rides on my horses, I don't care about head set, I ask them to follow their nose when turning, I try and get them confident on where their feet are, and comfortable in the gaits before asking head set, etc.
So speak stupid to me- do you think I should just keep trucking and it see if she sorts herself out?
I would back off on what you want her to do, get her to be confident in her gaits before you worry about headset.
Ground driving is a great thing to do, but find someone who has done it to teach you.
Also I strongly suggest not using any aids while they are learning, no German martingales.
Remember baby steps.
With my colts, before I get on, I have my goals I want to accomplish. So for this horse, I would set the goal to be smooth transitions in a straight line from a walk to a trot, a trot to a canter, a canter to a walk, walk to stop. Once I achieved this goal, I stop, reward them, get off loosen cinch and hand walk. I would do this for a week, then work on circles and the transitions.
I don't like to overwhelm my colts.
This one also sounds like one that will blow up fast, remember it is not the length of the ride, but the quality of the ride. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2685
| thank you! | |
| | |
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
Location: texas | I am no trainer by any means, BUT......
when she throws the fit when u are riding, why not try Clinton Anderson Technique, Make the wrong thing hard and right thing easy....
example I would get off when she throws the fit while riding and lounge her right then and there, prob need to have mecate reins, then get back on and ask her again.
my 4 yo bucked me off few weeks ago, I didn't get mad, and I was out in our open hay pasture 20 acres, anywho I walked over and got her and walked her butt straight over to the arena and lounged her for 15 minutes, then I got back on and we continued on our merry way...
just food for thought, theres lots of ways to skin a cat, gotta be one step ahead of her....
can she do all of CA groundwork, moving all body parts, yielding, etc?????
when mine our being slow, sluggish, or don't wanna move those shoulders, we do lots of forequarter work, wether its on a lounge line w her yielding and immediately going the other way, or heck even working a showmanship pattern where they need to plant those back feet and pivot and move the shoulders....
like I said lots of ways to skin a cat..... good luck
| |
| | |
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Fun2Run - 2015-10-25 9:30 PM It sounds like she doesn't really know what you want.
I used to ground drive all the colts. By the time I did step on them, they were pretty broke. Might try that.
I agree, she might be confused by what you are asking. Ground driving is a great tool | |
| | |
 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Your filly sounds like my colt. He's very testy... he pretty much MAKES me be mean to him, which I hate! He's got my number, for sure!
I'm not sure how much your filly knows, but my trainer is very picky about having me ask, tell, then KILL! (it sounds terrible, but for someone timid, like me and maybe you, what feels like kill is probably a tap, tap...lol!) All cues are with rhythm. Ask, one, two, three, Tell, one, two, three, GET OFF MY LEG NOW!!! release.
The point is obviously that he responds with the lightest, softest cue, but don't be afraid to get after him or he will become dull in a hurry.
If I ride every day and am consistent, my colt is fine, but give him a few days off and he's back to head swinging and kicking up. He just will not offer any more than I demand, and makes me think and work for everything. He makes me crazy. 
| |
| | |
  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-10-26 9:37 AM Fun2Run - 2015-10-25 9:30 PM It sounds like she doesn't really know what you want.
I used to ground drive all the colts. By the time I did step on them, they were pretty broke. Might try that. I agree, she might be confused by what you are asking. Ground driving is a great tool
I agree........by your own admission you have only ridden her a "handful" of times......"babies" have to LEARN to walk before they can move out......Additionally, have you checked IN her mouth....just because she had her teeth done 2-3 weeks ago doesn't mean that she doesn't have a "sore mouth" (or tooth). On some occasions, the bit may be bumping the sore part??? | |
| | |
 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | With babies, especially ones that haven't been ridden much, I ask them to do something 1-2 times and if they get it, I move on to something new. Everything I do I keep it extremely short, extremely easy and simple. That way we have a better chance of having a good ride. I try to set them up to do the right thing so that they gain confidence, plus a calm horse learns quicker. If they get upset, they don't learn well.
At that stage, I do ground work before every ride - I don't just lunge to get the edge off. I work on being able to move each foot individually, work on lightness. That helps prep them for the ride and it gets them in the mindset to work.
If I've got one that doesn't want to move out, then I'll work on moving out from the ground. Then I'll go ride in the pasture or a bigger area where I know they move out easier - setting them up to do the right thing. I'll ask with my leg and if I don't get it, I'll spank and cluck in time with my legs. I don't just dig a heel in - I tense my whole body, use my whole leg and push with my seat to push them forward. When they go, I immediately relax myself some and quit asking. I just get a stride or two and I'm happy - I build on that.
It's not uncommon for them to be sticky at this stage. If I have one that's real sticky, I'll ride in the pen while someone pushes from the ground to help them along. That frees one up pretty quick. I also don't pick up on them at all. I only pick up to actually stop or change a direction-- the main goal at that point is just getting forward movement. | |
| | |
 JMHO
Posts: 1869
Location: Oklahoma | Make sure your saddle fits good. I have a very tall gelding that has high narrow withers. My treed saddles hit the top of his withers when it shifts left or right and he Hates it. I'm using a Bob M. treeless and he's a much, much happier horse. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Use a smooth o ring like a jerrimiah watt i like balding make sure your ground is good her feet are balanced saddle fits and ride faithfully five or six days in a row is the key | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2685
| Dreamin of 3cans - 2015-10-26 4:49 PM
Make sure your saddle fits good. I have a very tall gelding that has high narrow withers. My treed saddles hit the top of his withers when it shifts left or right and he Hates it. I'm using a Bob M. treeless and he's a much, much happier horse.
Honestly, with the way she acts, that was my first thought. I'm going to try my other saddle on her Wednesday. She would be fine one minute and shaking her head the next. She isn't a mean mare so I don't have a good reason as to why she would get so upset over what seems to be nothing. | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line