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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
 
Location: Oklahoma | One that was raced 2 and 3 yr old years. 10-15 outs. What might show up in a vet check that would be a deal breaker for you?
I have never considered an OTT horse, but I've found one that has really caught my eye! |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
 
| I would pass on one that had been in a flipping halter in the gates.......I hate a horse that rears........and that would be a pretty good indicator if they had to use one of those on one |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Not a lot but knee chips are concerning for me. I got one off the track with a chipped sesmoid bone. . . and hes an eventer and did barrels also. But with that said, a vet removed the chip free of charge for us so we would give him a home. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Are there any long term problems associated with running as a 2/3 year old? I know that I see a lot of people (obv. not in the racing world) that just put about 30-60 days on the 2 year olds and turn them out to mature. Will running as a 2 year old hurt joints and such? |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Beside conformation, want a good laid back attitude and trainable, soft eye. a horse that is not good minded that is sound is not worth anything. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Durability. I don't have a problem if they had chips removed once, but more than once, that's a red flag. How much were they injected?
How many outs did they have. If they had very few, was it because they weren't sound? Or was it because they couldn't run? I prefer couldn't run. A 70 SI horse is plenty fast enough for barrels.
How did they break from the gates? Were they in the lead for the first 100 yds, and get passed? Or were they slow starters and come on at the end? Quick speed is a plus.
How they acted in the paddock and gates. One that flips while being saddled or in the gates will flip when put pressure on them, even off the grain.
Race horse trainers let them get away with everything, they don't care if the horse walks all over them. It usually takes a good 3-4 months to gain respect. If they were broke well before they went into training, that helps too. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Longneck - 2014-04-01 10:55 PM
Are there any long term problems associated with running as a 2/3 year old? I know that I see a lot of people (obv. not in the racing world) that just put about 30-60 days on the 2 year olds and turn them out to mature. Will running as a 2 year old hurt joints and such?
Judging by the amount of even futurity horses that raced as a 2 year old or part into their 3 YO year that do well as a barrel horse, I am not worried about it.
deal breakers to me are more on the mental side of things. I will deal with physical stuff, but a crazy one off the track leaves fast. I think I've taken 5 off the track, maybe 6…only one was "mental" that I got rid of. and she only raced 1 or 2 times. she was just an idiot. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | casualdust07 - 2014-04-02 10:13 AM Longneck - 2014-04-01 10:55 PM Are there any long term problems associated with running as a 2/3 year old? I know that I see a lot of people (obv. not in the racing world) that just put about 30-60 days on the 2 year olds and turn them out to mature. Will running as a 2 year old hurt joints and such? Judging by the amount of even futurity horses that raced as a 2 year old or part into their 3 YO year that do well as a barrel horse, I am not worried about it. deal breakers to me are more on the mental side of things. I will deal with physical stuff, but a crazy one off the track leaves fast. I think I've taken 5 off the track, maybe 6…only one was "mental" that I got rid of. and she only raced 1 or 2 times. she was just an idiot.
Mental will make me walk away as well. I have looked at 2 that were broke to a western saddle after leaving the track, but they would check out when you pressured them. Not something I'm willing to deal with. Another one I looked at wasn't gelded until he left the track and his legs were scarred up from "stall accidents"--he failed the vet check due to scar tissue and adhesions and crap on various soft tissue of his front legs. But he x-rayed clean, just as promised.  |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Would 3-4 years off the track be enough time to calm down and mentally mature? |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I have found most of mine to be solid from the get go. the mentally mature ones are just that way.. the fractious ones are just that way.
I have one mare who had been removed from the track for 3 years, and she's just a spunky goofy mare no matter how far removed from racing days. she only had 2 outs.
I had another mare who was raced a couple months prior to me getting her, and she raced for two years, 9 outs. we went right into training and she was mentally a rock through it all.
Another mare I have was just in race training but she has a super nice handle and no sorts of mind issues. I got her as a late 2 YO so she couldn't have had too much of a break from training.
the mare I got rid of hadn't been raced in 3-4 years and had zero self preservation instinct. she would rear with intentions of flipping over. She only raced once or twice.
the fifth one I have no idea, I bought her as a barrel horse and looked her up and found out she raced.
Edited by casualdust07 2014-04-02 10:39 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| A high strung horse. Bad coming out of the gates, or high headed. ABSOLUTE deal breakers right here. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | rodeomom13 - 2014-04-02 8:45 AM Durability. I don't have a problem if they had chips removed once, but more than once, that's a red flag. How much were they injected?
How many outs did they have. If they had very few, was it because they weren't sound? Or was it because they couldn't run? I prefer couldn't run. A 70 SI horse is plenty fast enough for barrels.
How did they break from the gates? Were they in the lead for the first 100 yds, and get passed? Or were they slow starters and come on at the end? Quick speed is a plus.
How they acted in the paddock and gates. One that flips while being saddled or in the gates will flip when put pressure on them, even off the grain.
Race horse trainers let them get away with everything, they don't care if the horse walks all over them. It usually takes a good 3-4 months to gain respect. If they were broke well before they went into training, that helps too.
I'm sorry, but this statement just really got me. We are in the business and I can tell you...our horses don't run all over us or invade our space. They are taught from the beginning that they have their's and we have ours...you get in our space and your gonna get schooled on for it. We have never had one that didn't respect us. And they go to the paddock and stand like rocks. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | total performance - 2014-04-02 12:19 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-04-02 8:45 AM Durability. I don't have a problem if they had chips removed once, but more than once, that's a red flag. How much were they injected?
How many outs did they have. If they had very few, was it because they weren't sound? Or was it because they couldn't run? I prefer couldn't run. A 70 SI horse is plenty fast enough for barrels.
How did they break from the gates? Were they in the lead for the first 100 yds, and get passed? Or were they slow starters and come on at the end? Quick speed is a plus.
How they acted in the paddock and gates. One that flips while being saddled or in the gates will flip when put pressure on them, even off the grain.
Race horse trainers let them get away with everything, they don't care if the horse walks all over them. It usually takes a good 3-4 months to gain respect. If they were broke well before they went into training, that helps too.
I'm sorry, but this statement just really got me. We are in the business and I can tell you...our horses don't run all over us or invade our space. They are taught from the beginning that they have their's and we have ours...you get in our space and your gonna get schooled on for it. We have never had one that didn't respect us. And they go to the paddock and stand like rocks.
After seeing sales prep yearlings and horses at the Heritage in person, I have to say you are the minority. All our OTT broodies are far ruder than anything we have ever bought that had been used and ranched on. They learn real fast not to swing their dang heads into ours or walk ahead of us. I won't tolerate a horse of any kind or age pushing me around. I'm super short and if they ever get an advantage, I would be drug around.
The sales yearlings are the nastiest things I have ever seen on 4 legs going into sales rings and being led out of barns. And at the sales it seems the worse they are, the more they bring.
I know this isn't every trainer or every horse, but it is seen often enough. |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-04-02 1:27 PM total performance - 2014-04-02 12:19 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-04-02 8:45 AM Durability. I don't have a problem if they had chips removed once, but more than once, that's a red flag. How much were they injected?
How many outs did they have. If they had very few, was it because they weren't sound? Or was it because they couldn't run? I prefer couldn't run. A 70 SI horse is plenty fast enough for barrels.
How did they break from the gates? Were they in the lead for the first 100 yds, and get passed? Or were they slow starters and come on at the end? Quick speed is a plus.
How they acted in the paddock and gates. One that flips while being saddled or in the gates will flip when put pressure on them, even off the grain.
Race horse trainers let them get away with everything, they don't care if the horse walks all over them. It usually takes a good 3-4 months to gain respect. If they were broke well before they went into training, that helps too.
I'm sorry, but this statement just really got me. We are in the business and I can tell you...our horses don't run all over us or invade our space. They are taught from the beginning that they have their's and we have ours...you get in our space and your gonna get schooled on for it. We have never had one that didn't respect us. And they go to the paddock and stand like rocks.
The sales yearlings are the nastiest things I have ever seen on 4 legs going into sales rings and being led out of barns. And at the sales it seems the worse they are, the more they bring.
I know this isn't every trainer or every horse, but it is seen often enough.
I like you am a small person. 5-2 and 115 lbs. They could throw me like a rag doll, I won't tolerate it. Hubby is a bigger guy--5-11, 200 lbs, he doesn't tolerate it either. There is no reason for them to act like a fool...other than they were let get by with it from the get go. Not in my barn! |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | total performance - 2014-04-02 12:19 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-04-02 8:45 AM Durability. I don't have a problem if they had chips removed once, but more than once, that's a red flag. How much were they injected?
How many outs did they have. If they had very few, was it because they weren't sound? Or was it because they couldn't run? I prefer couldn't run. A 70 SI horse is plenty fast enough for barrels.
How did they break from the gates? Were they in the lead for the first 100 yds, and get passed? Or were they slow starters and come on at the end? Quick speed is a plus.
How they acted in the paddock and gates. One that flips while being saddled or in the gates will flip when put pressure on them, even off the grain.
Race horse trainers let them get away with everything, they don't care if the horse walks all over them. It usually takes a good 3-4 months to gain respect. If they were broke well before they went into training, that helps too.
I'm sorry, but this statement just really got me. We are in the business and I can tell you...our horses don't run all over us or invade our space. They are taught from the beginning that they have their's and we have ours...you get in our space and your gonna get schooled on for it. We have never had one that didn't respect us. And they go to the paddock and stand like rocks.
Not all race trainers let them get away with being stupid, but a lot do. Don't take my statement personal. You have to admit the majority don't care if the horse acts like an ass. Drives me crazy when I have to spend hours teaching respect and to stand tied. They are always on the fly, always hurrying, trying to get through working sometimes 15-20 horses within a day and just don't take the time to discipline.
I know some barrel horse trainers that are the same way....... |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Longneck - 2014-04-02 10:31 AM
Would 3-4 years off the track be enough time to calm down and mentally mature?
Here is my most recent experience, she was 9 and had passed hands 4-5x since the track and was a lifetime claimer so had passed hands a lot in her racing career as well.
With that said, a more inexperienced gal bought her and brough her to our farm. She was the most ill-behaved horse I have ever seen. After being drug through the arena trying to lunge her and almost climbing out of the arena on multiple occasions, the lady decided she needed her gone. I offered to help her (see if I could) and maybe she would go somewhere other than kill.
The problem was mainly her malnurishment, although she had finally put weight back on at our barn, she lacked muscle in so many ways. The first day I took her out, she pinned me against the stalls and rammed me over and over until I finally got a knee to her belly. She could not be lead or lunged without a chain and you could tell by her habits and scaring, she had a chain under her lip the majority of her life.
This mare was the ultimate puzzle, you had to figure out if she physically was incapable of certain things (due to her lack of muscle) or if she flat out just didnt want to do it. I worked for for about 20 days and it was exhausting for us both. I spent a lot of time with her outside of work, praising her for certain things, disciplining for others... but nonetheless brushing, letting her graze, standing beside me while chatting with others, etc.
By the end, she was the sweetest mare and I had grown really attached to her. You could lead her without anything on her, lunge with in just a halter, bring her through just about any terrain/obstacle. It killed me to see her go. She finally had decided she could trust a human and once she realized that, she worked hard for me.
To answer your question, the mental scars, habits, maturity, etc had not gone away in her 5 years off the track. However, once she found someone who understood her and took the time, she was extremely bright! A friend of mine took her and continued the training for a few months and sold her to a dressage rider. I hope she is doing well and I hope to get another project soon.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/swamp+lady
Edited by stayceem 2014-04-02 10:49 PM
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| I have three off the track. They are all well behaved. All can be handled all over. All lead and tie well. One came from CA. One came from South TX and one came from North TX. I would say that would be a pretty good sampling from the racing world.
OK, on deal breaker, I would have backs xrayed for kissing spines. I would look at race record. If he horse had been winning or doing OK then starts placing at the end of the pack, the horse is hurt. Do your home work. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I'll be weird and say a HIGH Speed Index - I got one - OLD guy and I figured if he was THAT fast, if I just got close to the barrels we could clock - he was a NUT CASE. - Dighton Drifter for you Kansas race people - you'll recognize that. |
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