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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
    
Location: Georgia |
My 3 year old has been doing good for the most part. She probably has bout 45 rides and has taken to everything great. Right now we are mainly just working on collection and working off legs. She has been a little heavy on the bit recently and I've done what I know to get her to back off some but it hasnt been working. I feel like im constantly in her mouth but when I give her some rein she tries to speed up and forgets to stay collected. So I need to do something different before she becomes hard mouthed. I dont think she will ever be one to be real light in the face but I can't stand a horse that leans on the bit. What are some things I can do to get her to back off and stay light? This is the first baby I've started from the ground up so I could be doing alot wrong and would appreciate some guidance. |
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 I don't want to screw up!
Posts: 3881
Location: North Dakota -> Colorado | bump, as I'm curious as well |
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| Stop pulling straight back on the bit ..
Use left and right rein separately and lift upwards
instead of pulling both backwards ..
Use left rein and left leg to move right
Use right rein and right leg to move left
Flutter the rein lightly with your little finger ...
Since you have been in her mouth ... you may have to
snatch her a few times to respond to light rein handling.
And for horses sake ... use split reins ...
and learn to finger the reins with one hand to put slack or tighten
up either rein as needed ... and lift upwards .. Ok??
Go buy the offset O-ring bit on downunderhorseman that will never
pinch your horse ... get the 3/8's smooth 2 piece snaffle mouth piece
GOOD LUCK... |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | shes leaning because shes not strong enough yet as a 3 yr old to be collected.. if shes leaning in every day riding then dont give her anything to lean on.. focus on suppleness and developing her back and hind end.. Id never work on collection on a 3 yr old.. when she leans on bit or gets fast then supple her .. and ask her to go round and thats not collection.. collection is thru there back and using their hind.. energy from the hind..let her get strong first..also balance plays a huge role in it.. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Bibliafarm - 2017-07-08 9:56 PM
shes leaning because shes not strong enough yet as a 3 yr old to be collected.. if shes leaning in every day riding then dont give her anything to lean on.. focus on suppleness and developing her back and hind end.. Id never work on collection on a 3 yr old.. when she leans on bit or gets fast then supple her .. and ask her to go round and thats not collection.. collection is thru there back and using their hind.. energy from the hind..let her get strong first..also balance plays a huge role in it..
Yes. I'd suggest watching/reading anything from Les Vogt about starting horses/bit work. He does clinics too maybe one is close to you.
Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance also have a lot of info on how to ride to help your horse become balanced/setting them up to move correctly and flow right into collection.
Edited by veintiocho 2017-07-08 10:09 PM
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | I know many will disagree with me, but I like to step up to a short shank bit with a curb chain when a young horse wants to get pushy and lean on the bit. Of course you have to be very light with your hands, give and take, don't give then something to lean on etc. Maybe not for everyone, but it works for me. They learn to break at the poll and elevate the front end much better with a little leverage and a light hand. Once they have the strength and muscle memory to carry themselves correctly you can usually go back to an o-ring if you want to. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| She's telling you she's not ready for what you're asking, and I'm not sure you're asking for it correctly anyway.
Get off her face, get her working off your legs, moving left and right, big circles, gentle reining with 1 hand or the other when leg isn't enough. Let her pick the speed as long as she isnt flat running off - if she is her her doing a one reined stop.
Collection comes from the hind end, they have to be moving forward off your leg first. The hands package the energy up for collection, but it's essential they are comfortable with moving forward. Speed aka momentum, is generally a sign that she doesn't have the muscle ability to do what you're asking yet, or she doesn't understand. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I am dealing with this on a colt I just got back from a trainer and it is not a cycle you want to get into! It will turn into a pulling battle. Your horse is telling you it isn't physically or mentally ready.
Focus on transitions, softness and balance and collection will come. Most people confuse head set for true collection.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7e6fG1fC9WrEnSn0rZBI8mNEOnTnF3Kg
Edited by equussynergy 2017-07-09 8:48 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| I to have a 3 year old. Here is a different perspective. Their body and mouth is changing and developing so much at this age. Especially teeth. They are losing caps, growing new ones, bones and tendons are constantly in flux. My colt was started by a cutter so whoa is all hind end and low head set. I ride mine in a Jim Warner day to day and he loves it. Believe it or not he is already a competitive 2d horse and just turned 3 a couple weeks ago. He runs in a little S hack. I will ride him in a short shank argentine snaffle maybe once a week just to keep the feel of a bit etc. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Waterford snaffle and one rein stops. Lots of transitions. |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| veintiocho - 2017-07-08 10:05 PM
Bibliafarm - 2017-07-08 9:56 PM
shes leaning because shes not strong enough yet as a 3 yr old to be collected.. if shes leaning in every day riding then dont give her anything to lean on.. focus on suppleness and developing her back and hind end.. Id never work on collection on a 3 yr old.. when she leans on bit or gets fast then supple her .. and ask her to go round and thats not collection.. collection is thru there back and using their hind.. energy from the hind..let her get strong first..also balance plays a huge role in it..
Yes. I'd suggest watching/reading anything from Les Vogt about starting horses/bit work. He does clinics too maybe one is close to you.
Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance also have a lot of info on how to ride to help your horse become balanced/setting them up to move correctly and flow right into collection.
What they said^^! Collection comes from strong topline and hind end...it just takes time. Don't focus on circles- do lots of counter arcing and hill work and rollbacks and just put her to work using her body. Inside rein/outside leg and teach her to drive her hip up and soften her jaw to the inside. Lil bit at a time! |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Bibliafarm - 2017-07-08 9:56 PM shes leaning because shes not strong enough yet as a 3 yr old to be collected.. if shes leaning in every day riding then dont give her anything to lean on.. focus on suppleness and developing her back and hind end.. Id never work on collection on a 3 yr old.. when she leans on bit or gets fast then supple her .. and ask her to go round and thats not collection.. collection is thru there back and using their hind.. energy from the hind..let her get strong first..also balance plays a huge role in it..
^^^^^^^What Biblia said. |
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Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | lopnaround - 2017-07-10 12:13 PM veintiocho - 2017-07-08 10:05 PM Bibliafarm - 2017-07-08 9:56 PM shes leaning because shes not strong enough yet as a 3 yr old to be collected.. if shes leaning in every day riding then dont give her anything to lean on.. focus on suppleness and developing her back and hind end.. Id never work on collection on a 3 yr old.. when she leans on bit or gets fast then supple her .. and ask her to go round and thats not collection.. collection is thru there back and using their hind.. energy from the hind..let her get strong first..also balance plays a huge role in it.. Yes. I'd suggest watching/reading anything from Les Vogt about starting horses/bit work. He does clinics too maybe one is close to you. Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance also have a lot of info on how to ride to help your horse become balanced/setting them up to move correctly and flow right into collection. What they said^^! Collection comes from strong topline and hind end...it just takes time. Don't focus on circles- do lots of counter arcing and hill work and rollbacks and just put her to work using her body. Inside rein/outside leg and teach her to drive her hip up and soften her jaw to the inside. Lil bit at a time!
Thank you everyone for the replies! I feel bad now for asking her to stay collected. 
What are the main things I should be asking of her at this stage?
Biblia, when you say "supple her", how is that done? Just by turning her in circles and what not? She is doing super with arching around inside leg pressure. And I have slowly started asking her to move away from pressure also. Aka: Side-stepping and pivoting on her back end some. Are those things ok? I dont pick at her much. As long as she isnt being disprespecful and ignoring me I pretty much just let her be. She trots and lopes around beautifully and has a pretty nice stop. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | 45 days Is not.Lot time on one really. The only reason a horse pushes is they being pulled on and not.released. Just ride.her right now. She's still trying to figure things out. It's like a little kindergarten kid learning to write. First they have to learn to hold the pencil. Nearly every one wants to much to soon. |
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Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | clampitt - 2017-07-11 2:33 PM 45 days Is not.Lot time on one really. The only reason a horse pushes is they being pulled on and not.released. Just ride.her right now. She's still trying to figure things out. It's like a little kindergarten kid learning to write. First they have to learn to hold the pencil. Nearly every one wants to much to soon.
Thank you. You are right. Im probably not releasing her when I should and so thats why she is pulling. She is a bit high spirited and tends to get speedy in new situations so my response is to try to keep her tight. But I'm definitely going to give her a little more freedom. I understand she is just a baby and everything is new. I have pretty big hopes for this filly so I want to be doing all the right things. That's why I'm so glad there is a place like BHW with a lot of knowledgeable people.
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Addicted to Baseball
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright, TX | 45 days is nothing. Not even fair to ask her for collection, not even a little...that's the last part of the foundation. That's months away, months. The better part of a year at the shortest, longer if really wanting a well trained horse who is physically and mentally capable of the work and understands from back to front and toe to head.
http://canterburyfarmchicago.com/dressage-training-pyramid/
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| Like others have said, get out of her face. She is so young she's just learning how her body works. What I do when one leans on the bit is I go back to easy stuff-I ask for a little collection when the horse gives just a little bit- then I release. Any effort is good, that's all I want. I don't need them collecting for ten strides, maybe just one stride. Build it up from there. Pressure-release. I usually do this at a walk and don't pick on them, this session usually lasts about 10-20 minutes before I go ride in the hills etc. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | I took some clinics and somethings that have really helped me and my horses is trotting lots of cirlces asking for softness with one rein to the inside, instant release when they give, over and over. You don't need to do it a million times every ride but I use it was part of my warm up and move on. The other with speed control, teach your horse a cue to rate or slow down. We used a hum, so if we were trotting we would sit, hum, wait for 3 strides and if they didn't rate back then pick up and pull them to a walk. Same with at a lope, hum to a trot. Really helped get horses tuned in and understanding body position with speed control without constant pulling. |
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