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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | I'm looking for new, think outside the box ideas on how to deal with almost constant foot pain on one of my horses, and a couple new ideas were presented to me last night. Centurion and Draper therapies. I've heard the names and googled them but am interested in actual experiences/results.
The horse in question is shod with pads (feet are well-balanced according to vet), wears PHT magnetic bell boots 24/7, travels in Soft Rides all the way around, gets a THE blood flow supplement daily - I keep him on the loading/heavy usage dose, and basically I just baby his feet as much as I can. Packing the feet with magic cushion helped for a week or so, but I'm told you have to redo it every few days. As of Thursday evening, he's on Isoxsuprine for a month or so and bute for the next 10 days (which I hate giving for that long but I want my horse back).
My vet and I are both at a loss on what to do with him because he's a really nice 1D/rodeo horse when we can keep his feet feeling good. We've battled foot problems for several years so its not a new thing. We x-rayed his feet a couple years ago and everything was fine, no navicular changes at all. He is a 15.2 hand 1150 pound horse with feet that most shoers want to put a 0 shoe on. I think right now my shoer is using SX7s on him so the size is between an 0 and a 1.
Anyway, ideas of what to do or experiences with Centurion and Draper therapies would be much appreciated. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Did you X-ray his feet this time,what is the sole depth, and where is the coffin bone located in relation to the hoof wall, and the sole?
I would have had the vet do hoof testers and then block to see which part of the foot was affected, if he has pain in the navicular area this can also be contracted heels
Your horses feet may be balanced but can still be severely contracted especially if the farrier is trimming the foot to fit the shoe. The shoe should extend 1/8 of an inch all the way around the foot, very few farriers actually do this.
Also I would look at a theraplate.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-03-08 10:33 AM
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
 
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Ask your vet for PURE DL Methionine. It is expensive but it will make the hoof like a rubber tire/more flexible. Put him on Magnesium...Calcium...Phosphorous to help battle the navicular. I found RECOVERY EQ to be good for pain. The body can only use so much of a product at any time so spread it out over the day if your going to give extra. Never heard of the products you mention |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Are his pads the "pour-in" style, aka equi-pack? They worked very well for my horse that has thin soles and was bruised, where as the standard style pads allowed wet dirt and sand to collect under the pad and caused more issues.
Also, I know I have heard acupuncture can help foot pain. Not sure how true that is, but maybe something to try if nothing else works I suppose. I am not sold on alternative therapies, but it is out there. |
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| I would check out the theraplate they work great with feet issues! |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Theraplate and Respond Laser is what has worked for me with my mare. Soft rides and I use Previcox. |
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 Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | If not navicular, do you know what is causing the pain? Is it both front feet?
My horse fractured his coffin bone and it was very difficult to see on the xray. 3 Months of stall rest and bar shoes and he is good as new. He will always wear pads on the front.
You really need a diagnosis, but sometimes stall rest is the only answer. However if he has arthritis then you would have a different answer. So you have to know why he is hurting. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | I have an eight year old that has had the same issues since he was 4 when we started his futurity career. (I raised him from a weanling.) He did horribly in his futurities cuz his feet were killing him, but didn't realize this at the time. He would grow long toes, low heels = heel pain. Tried everything, even an expensive MRI that showed nothing. Just not much sole depth and weak digital cushion. Tried all kinds of special, high dollar shoeing that helped for a while, that is if we could keep the shoes on. I finally threw my sucker in the dirt and pulled his shoes and he has been barefoot for a year. First six months of barefoot were up and down with abcesses and tender footedness. I had pretty good success with TLC EquiBone for a while. I also had him on Previcox for a while to get him to start landing heel first. I also bought Easyboots to encourage that heel first landing as well. I bought a Theraplate about three weeks ago and have been putting him on it six days/week. After a year of being barefoot and now the Theraplate to really increase the blood flow, I think I finally have my horse back!  |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | We did not x-ray anything this time. Pain is over the center third of the frog and the frog is not great....vet wrote rotten on the summary sheet but said its not THAT bad, but still not good. Vet said feet looked good and he didn't come up with a really good idea of WHY Chance is sore this time. We were really convinced it was hind end somewhere and I'm not entirely sure that there's not something going on there too though we couldn't find it during his exam Thursday.
We had regular pads on with magic cushion under them last reset (Jan. 31st) but are putting EquiPack in when he gets new shoes on Tuesday. Until then I'm treating him a few times with Kopertox under the pad on his left foot and I'm wrapping the right foot with Kopertox, a diaper, Vet wrap and a temporary hoof wrap thing. |
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Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | Has your vet not done blocks and localized it to the foot? If he blocked the foot and the horse went sound then why would you think it was somewhere else? I assumed this was his front feet?
Edited by TBone 2014-03-08 1:30 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Thrush can cause a horse to go lame, but I would suggest getting a different vet, flexion tests all four legs, all joints, and block then X-rays.
X-rays can also show you if there is thrush under the frog, and a lot can change on a horse in 2 years so the previous X-rays are just for comparison now.
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | TBone - 2014-03-08 1:29 PM Has your vet not done blocks and localized it to the foot? If he blocked the foot and the horse went sound then why would you think it was somewhere else? I assumed this was his front feet?
He blocked the foot and there was no change. Then we blocked from the ankle down and he was slightly better but still not entirely sound. I can't say for sure that it wasn't the gravel bothering him because we didn't move him around on grass before Doc pulled the one shoe. He was a little ouchy when we circled him on the grass without the shoe but it's hard to say if that was because the shoe & pad were off or because his foot legitimately hurt.
It is his front feet that we're dealing with now, and while I'm not entirely sold that they are his whole problem, if they are ouchy at all, that's not cool and we need to fix it. Basic lameness exam - walking/trotting straight lines and circles, flex tests and hoof testers - are what he did Thursday. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-08 2:01 PM
TBone - 2014-03-08 1:29 PM Has your vet not done blocks and localized it to the foot? If he blocked the foot and the horse went sound then why would you think it was somewhere else? I assumed this was his front feet?
He blocked the foot and there was no change. Then we blocked from the ankle down and he was slightly better but still not entirely sound. I can't say for sure that it wasn't the gravel bothering him because we didn't move him around on grass before Doc pulled the one shoe. He was a little ouchy when we circled him on the grass without the shoe but it's hard to say if that was because the shoe & pad were off or because his foot legitimately hurt.
It is his front feet that we're dealing with now, and while I'm not entirely sold that they are his whole problem, if they are ouchy at all, that's not cool and we need to fix it. Basic lameness exam - walking/trotting straight lines and circles, flex tests and hoof testers - are what he did Thursday.
My understanding there are 3 or 4 different blocks for the foot, do you know which nerve he injected into, or did he block the entire foot? |
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| I think you need to see a lameness specialist and if you vet is a lameness vet, then you need to get another opinion. Spending a tone of money on all different types of therapies don't help if your not treating the correct problem. When you add it all up, a good vet and possibly an MRI are cheaper in the end. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1960
Location: NW Arkansas | You need to check his shoulders. I ran a mare for 10 years and we battled foot issues. She had size 0 feet and a big ole chunky quarter horse body on them. Her feet were constantly sore. I kept wedges and equipak pour in pads on her, along with daily Equioxx. Last year I retired her at the age of 17. She had developed bursitis in her shoulders compensating for her sore feet. The final straw was she has developed a spur on her right knee. So have your vet check your gelding's shoulders for bursitis, too. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | cheryl makofka - 2014-03-08 2:15 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-03-08 2:01 PM TBone - 2014-03-08 1:29 PM Has your vet not done blocks and localized it to the foot? If he blocked the foot and the horse went sound then why would you think it was somewhere else? I assumed this was his front feet? He blocked the foot and there was no change. Then we blocked from the ankle down and he was slightly better but still not entirely sound. I can't say for sure that it wasn't the gravel bothering him because we didn't move him around on grass before Doc pulled the one shoe. He was a little ouchy when we circled him on the grass without the shoe but it's hard to say if that was because the shoe & pad were off or because his foot legitimately hurt.
It is his front feet that we're dealing with now, and while I'm not entirely sold that they are his whole problem, if they are ouchy at all, that's not cool and we need to fix it. Basic lameness exam - walking/trotting straight lines and circles, flex tests and hoof testers - are what he did Thursday. My understanding there are 3 or 4 different blocks for the foot, do you know which nerve he injected into, or did he block the entire foot?
He injected two different spots to block the foot. My understanding is that he was trying to block the entire foot to see if the pain was in the foot or up above it.
Tonight when I got home with the other horses, Chance sprinted to the gate and then proceeded to run about 8 laps around the pen at full speed. I have no idea what kind of rocket fuel my parents/brother put in his feed this weekend, but I may want to bottle it and feed it before rodeos! lol. So apparently he is feeling better if he's running and bucking. None of it makes sense to me. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you do go to a different vet, get all your X-rays for a reference point, and the blocks he used.
I am a little confused on the blocks, if he did both blocks at the same time, then if the horse went sound you still don't know where the pain is.
My understanding a vet is supposed to block one nerve assess, then block the next nerve, assess, and start working the way up the horse. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I sure am glad that you started this thread, I am having the same problems with my gelding, its his right foot so going to make an App. with my Vet at the Retama Equine Hospital here and try to get an answer as to what the heck is going on, this makes me sick, I dont even get to ride much and hes sore for some reason.
Hope that you get to the bottom of whats going on with Chance  |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Draper therapies=very similar to BOT just cheaper. I bought a blanket anti sweat sheet for all of mine to share as needed, have a couple barrel horses and team roping horses-wanted something to help ease any stiffness they have and "spoil" them. Got the anti sweat sheet around Christmas time I have "crazy leg" when I am tired and sore knee/feet I sat with that blanket on my legs for a couple of nights and I really like it, makes them relax, so now, I have a nap blanket for myself. Not sure how good the blanket works on my horses but they've all had it on and no one seems to hate it but they all have really thick winter coats yet, so I'm assuming it will take longer to work until they are shed out.
I'm going to throw something out there about your horse. If there is a possiblility that you are dealing with fetlock pain and rear end soundness, if he has arthritis, which I'm assuming he does, give pentosan a look. I have a neighbor whose mare was terrible about going in the gate, definitely had intermittent lameness on the front end spots of inflammation along her spine. She went to every vet in a 1000 mile radius and every one had different idea's. Finally she put shoes and pads on the front and started giving pentosan and that mare ran her most consistent 2D year ever. No more gate issues and really ran hard consistently this summer. The swelling along her spine is also gone. Pentosan basically targets arthritis and helps "wash" the joints clean. It is given like adequan but is relatively cheap. I have 2 horses on it, one that has never been to the vet but is 16 and a pretty good heading horse and also my good horse that hung a leg in the fence 2 springs ago and needed hock injections last spring, figured I would need to inject at least every 6 months. Started him on pentosan and I havent had him injected at all since and there are no more gate issues with him either.
And after this entire book of info I just wrote. Please find a different farrier to give you his/her opinion or send pics to farrierlady or sarajean on here. There's a lot that can go wrong if the feet are not right. |
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