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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| Could somebody help me understand why a stallion owner would limit the stallion book to a certain number of mares? |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
  
Location: Oklahoma | Possible reasons:
To not flood the market with 100+ foals
competition
no AI, only live cover
To be honest I really don't know. When I worked in the TB industry we limited our books to 100-120 mares, but it was all live cover.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Due to campaign scheduling
Health
Increase value of foals, supply demand economics |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24139
Location: Carpenter, WY | Well, sometimes it isn't about the money, but hours in the day and what you are efficiently and successfully able to handle especially if you are in your 60's pushing 70 and are small time and don't stand the stud at a stallion station. Besides running a stud back and forth to the collection facility and handling on farm mares you're talking lots and lots of hours. In between all the collection and breeding you're busy foaling out your own mares and by the end of May you're just plain tired. I think it also gives the stud owner a easy out to say 'sorry, booked full' if they don't like your mare also without hurting any feelings. :) |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| cheryl makofka - 2014-10-10 11:31 AM Due to campaign scheduling Health Increase value of foals, supply demand economics But the whole point is to increase value, right? You need to increase demand not decrease supply, if you want to increase your equalibrium price. You increase the demand by having more foals resulting in a higher probability of successful foals.
Campaning and health are understandable.
Edited by Whiteboy 2014-10-10 11:43 AM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| teehaha - 2014-10-10 11:37 AM Well, sometimes it isn't about the money, but hours in the day and what you are efficiently and successfully able to handle especially if you are in your 60's pushing 70 and are small time and don't stand the stud at a stallion station. Besides running a stud back and forth to the collection facility and handling on farm mares you're talking lots and lots of hours. In between all the collection and breeding you're busy foaling out your own mares and by the end of May you're just plain tired. I think it also gives the stud owner a easy out to say 'sorry, booked full' if they don't like your mare also without hurting any feelings. :)
So time commitment. I ask because like FWOTR, they filled his book in a few hours 65 mares at $3500 each. Seems like you would want to expand that rather than leave another $100K on the table. But I can see your reputation might be worth more than the additional money if it would make you unable to fullfil the expectations. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 887
Location: GA | I choose to limit the book because of the experience I had successfully receiving deposits to reserve all of my 2015 foals. It's sometimes difficult to sell weanlings, especially for a new-to-the-scene sire. Let's face it, my husband will allow me to continue breeding as long as I can move foals and I feel like keeping them more "rare" will help me do that! Haha |
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Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24139
Location: Carpenter, WY | Whiteboy - 2014-10-10 10:45 AM teehaha - 2014-10-10 11:37 AM Well, sometimes it isn't about the money, but hours in the day and what you are efficiently and successfully able to handle especially if you are in your 60's pushing 70 and are small time and don't stand the stud at a stallion station. Besides running a stud back and forth to the collection facility and handling on farm mares you're talking lots and lots of hours. In between all the collection and breeding you're busy foaling out your own mares and by the end of May you're just plain tired. I think it also gives the stud owner a easy out to say 'sorry, booked full' if they don't like your mare also without hurting any feelings. :) So time commitment. I ask because like FWOTR, they filled his book in a few hours 65 mares at $3500 each. Seems like you would want to expand that rather than leave another $100K on the table. But I can see your reputation might be worth more than the additional money if it would make you unable to fullfil the expectations.
At 3500 and 65 mares why get too greedy LOL Keeps the foal values high and the stud in demand and I'd bet alot of early bookings for the following year. I think it's a pretty business savy move on the owners part.
Edited by teehaha 2014-10-10 12:01 PM
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 Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| Also it is really annoying when you call to order semen and they had a zillion mares order that day so you only get a limited amount or frozen.....
Umm not what I signed up for and wont breed again just for the fact I have $100's of dollars tied up and counting on this one straw of semen lol
It also keeps the resale value higher because there aren't 600 people trying to market foals by the same stallion |
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Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| Oh I bred two mares to FWOTR this year and Robyn was GREAT to work with went above & beyond to help get them in foal. 
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | If the semen quality isn't great, they will also limit the book so as to not spread him thin. |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Whiteboy - 2014-10-10 12:42 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-10-10 11:31 AM Due to campaign scheduling Health Increase value of foals, supply demand economics But the whole point is to increase value, right? You need to increase demand not decrease supply, if you want to increase your equalibrium price. You increase the demand by having more foals resulting in a higher probability of successful foals.
Campaning and health are understandable.
Strictly IMO, a smaller number of quality foals is a lot better than a large number of average foals. If you put out quality foals and people know there are only a limited number of them, the price also rises. A larger number does not necessarily make them worth more. |
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | Mighty Broke - 2014-10-10 10:14 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-10 12:42 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-10-10 11:31 AM Due to campaign scheduling Health Increase value of foals, supply demand economics But the whole point is to increase value, right? You need to increase demand not decrease supply, if you want to increase your equalibrium price. You increase the demand by having more foals resulting in a higher probability of successful foals.
Campaning and health are understandable.
If you put out quality foals and people know there are only a limited number of them, the price also rises. A larger number does not necessarily make them worth more.
Then with that they should limit the book to approved mares as well. Just because you are breeding fewer doesn't mean you are breeding better mares. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | TheOldGrayMare - 2014-10-10 1:17 PM Mighty Broke - 2014-10-10 10:14 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-10 12:42 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-10-10 11:31 AM Due to campaign scheduling Health Increase value of foals, supply demand economics But the whole point is to increase value, right? You need to increase demand not decrease supply, if you want to increase your equalibrium price. You increase the demand by having more foals resulting in a higher probability of successful foals.
Campaning and health are understandable. If you put out quality foals and people know there are only a limited number of them, the price also rises. A larger number does not necessarily make them worth more.
Edited by Mighty Broke 2014-10-10 1:10 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | No body has mentioned what a physical and mental toll it takes on a stallion. It takes a lot of good feed to keep breeding stallions in shape not to mention good handlers and good mares if the stallion is covering them.
It is not about the money, at least not with me.
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | hotpaints - 2014-10-10 3:04 PM No body has mentioned what a physical and mental toll it takes on a stallion. It takes a lot of good feed to keep breeding stallions in shape not to mention good handlers and good mares if the stallion is covering them.
It is not about the money, at least not with me.
Agree completely and yes, this wasn't brought up. Breeding season is a very stressful time for a stallion. |
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 Saint Stacey
| If semen quality isn't that great they will sometimes limit the number so they can cover getting the mares that book bred. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1591
Location: East Texas | I think it's great to limit it to some extent. When a stallion has 200 foals born that year, and half of them are for sale, are there 100 buyers for them at top dollar? And I have bred to fwotr every year for 4 years now, and I know I wouldn't spend $3,500 to take a okay mare to him, I dang sure take my best. Last year I saw him run on a Sunday night, and he had to collect Monday morning after a long drive home, so that is one reason she limits his book. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I agree with everyone that gave good reasons for limited book numbers on stallions. If we are using FWOTR as an example I think what they have done is GENIUS! Besides possibly necessary to limit the stress and allow for their ambitions to compete with him. I have great respect for stallion owners/managers that limit the book. The law of supply and demand. If something is good and rare it commands more money and is treated with more respect. I want to breed a couple of mares to him SO bad. But I just can't afford the stud fee now. 
Meg is especially right on. As someone who has a real job besides owning a stallion I get really tired of the whole breeding thing by June. I foal all my own mares, breed mares in my spare time (haha) plus hold down a full time job and run a farm and household by myself. I HAVE to limit the number of mares I own to a very modest number due in large part to my own physical limitations. Shipping semen is sometimes (how do I put this not to offend) an inconvenience that I tolerate because I truly WANT to offer HAB to the public. If I didn't, I would close his book and only breed my own mares.
Putting 100 babies on the ground in one season is a short sighted way to approach marketing a stallion. IMO |
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