|
|
 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
    
Location: Georgia | Southtxponygirl - 2018-12-12 11:12 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:48 AM Southtxponygirl - 2018-12-12 10:17 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:05 AM fulltiltfilly - 2018-12-12 9:57 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:23 AM Also, here is the way my Lynn McKenzie fits. This is an older LM that I've had for 15 years.
And I'm going to attach a picture of her sweat marks after a ride. Thought on how this fits? Also too wide? This looks like its sitting down too but not as much as the other one. She has a dry spot on her wither so I would say the saddle is putting pressure there.
Does your sister in law have a Cactus CJ or is it a Double J? I know these two can fit different.
Edit to say I would go with a round shirt too, but the Lynn M by Double J do have a longer skirt and the Martins have a deeper skirt, so I think a round skirt would be a better fit. I have one that is short backed too and need to go to a round skirt on him.
If I were you and looking at a Double J wide I would call and talk to someone there that knows their saddles, I have a Double J wide with a 43 degree bar and works with my thick gelding with nice withers and I have a 10# tree and a Standard I have no complaints on these saddles.
The other day I used a metal hanger and basically molded it to her withers. Based on that, I deermined her shoulders were around 70 degree angle. Does that sound right? What type of tree would this be?
| |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| Runninbay - 2018-12-12 10:56 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2018-12-12 11:12 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:48 AM Southtxponygirl - 2018-12-12 10:17 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:05 AM fulltiltfilly - 2018-12-12 9:57 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:23 AM Also, here is the way my Lynn McKenzie fits. This is an older LM that I've had for 15 years.
And I'm going to attach a picture of her sweat marks after a ride. Thought on how this fits? Also too wide? This looks like its sitting down too but not as much as the other one. She has a dry spot on her wither so I would say the saddle is putting pressure there.
Does your sister in law have a Cactus CJ or is it a Double J? I know these two can fit different.
Edit to say I would go with a round shirt too, but the Lynn M by Double J do have a longer skirt and the Martins have a deeper skirt, so I think a round skirt would be a better fit. I have one that is short backed too and need to go to a round skirt on him.
If I were you and looking at a Double J wide I would call and talk to someone there that knows their saddles, I have a Double J wide with a 43 degree bar and works with my thick gelding with nice withers and I have a 10# tree and a Standard I have no complaints on these saddles.
And that statement right there is why I went through 2 dozen saddles trying to find one for my guy 
Good luck is all I have to say! Hours of research and reading, buying a saddle I think would work then reselling. And going to shows and bugging people to try their saddles! A lot of saddle makers won't give out the bar angles because they don't want it to be copied; some do which is great but most won't tell you. Saddlemakers.org is a GREAT place to start. It gives you a very good knowledge base to learn about saddle fit and the many different factors. And BHW of course is a wonderful resource too.
On another note, the LM looked like a much better fit to me minus the small dry spot. I definitely think the FX3 sat down too far on her shoulders and gave you that dumping feeling. | |
| | |
 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | Lynn McKenzie ended up shipping me all of her trees to try on my horses back. It cost me $80 shipping there and back total. I didn't end up going with her saddles (I bought a wide Pozzi instead), but it may be worth a shot to see if whatever maker you are interested in will do something similar. It was very helpful. | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Martin gullet is too wide and bar angle is wrong. The LM has too much rock. Gullet and Bar angle look pretty good on the LM but the rock/twist to the tree is wrong for her. | |
| | |
Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:48 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2018-12-12 10:17 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:05 AM fulltiltfilly - 2018-12-12 9:57 AM Runninbay - 2018-12-12 9:23 AM Also, here is the way my Lynn McKenzie fits. This is an older LM that I've had for 15 years.
And I'm going to attach a picture of her sweat marks after a ride. Thought on how this fits? Also too wide? This looks like its sitting down too but not as much as the other one. She has a dry spot on her wither so I would say the saddle is putting pressure there.
Does your sister in law have a Cactus CJ or is it a Double J? I know these two can fit different.
Edit to say I would go with a round shirt too, but the Lynn M by Double J do have a longer skirt and the Martins have a deeper skirt, so I think a round skirt would be a better fit. I have one that is short backed too and need to go to a round skirt on him.
The frustrating thing about it is - “wide” is whatever that particular saddle maker deems it to be... if their “standard” is 6.5” gullet then a 6.75” might be their wide, and the bar angle may not really be any different between the two. Or frankly the gullet could be the same and the bar angle could be what determines regular or wide (not usually the case, but could be).
Bar angle is arguably more important than gullet. A lot of folks get into wider gullets and find the saddle dumping forward. The gullet is what holds the bars in the proper position on the back - if it’s too wide everything sits too far down in the front. A horse can be a complete beefcake and still wear a “smaller” gullet if the bar angle is correct. Our rope saddles are on a 6.5” gullet but the bar angle is flatter to fit a bigger shouldered thick cowy horse, as well as accommodate the thicker pads that we use.
I really do think that Martin’s Axis tree is one of the most frustrating things that ever happened to the used saddle market. People have no clue how to properly measure a saddle gullet (and frankly you can’t do it accurately once it’s built) and want to go straight across the front and think they need “at least an 8” gullet”. And since Martin makes one (with a completely different fit theory than other saddle makers) people think they need one...it actually makes it really hard I think to sell mid range quality saddles that are normal 6.5-7” gullets.
But I digress.
It’s frustrating. I love my Burns and their customer service is second to none IMO if you ever get somewhere that they are doing fittings. They are pricey, but you can run a Martin or a Dbl J into the same price range with fancy smancy add ons - and I’ve never seen bling trip a timer any faster. Even if you don’t buy one, you’ll learn a lot about saddle fit and what you should be looking for when you fit other brands.
I also think since most of us have been there at one time or another that the best thing you can do is get an idea of what you want to try and ask if anyone has it locally on a Facebook event page or local group. I would venture to say that as long as you’re understanding of their schedule, polite, and gracious that most folks would let you fit a saddle of theirs on your horse at an event - I know I would and have. | |
| | |
Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | OhMax - 2018-12-12 8:52 PM The frustrating thing about it is - “wide” is whatever that particular saddle maker deems it to be... if their “standard” is 6.5” gullet then a 6.75” might be their wide, and the bar angle may not really be any different between the two. Or frankly the gullet could be the same and the bar angle could be what determines regular or wide (not usually the case, but could be). Bar angle is arguably more important than gullet. A lot of folks get into wider gullets and find the saddle dumping forward. The gullet is what holds the bars in the proper position on the back - if it’s too wide everything sits too far down in the front. A horse can be a complete beefcake and still wear a “smaller” gullet if the bar angle is correct. Our rope saddles are on a 6.5” gullet but the bar angle is flatter to fit a bigger shouldered thick cowy horse, as well as accommodate the thicker pads that we use. I really do think that Martin’s Axis tree is one of the most frustrating things that ever happened to the used saddle market. People have no clue how to properly measure a saddle gullet (and frankly you can’t do it accurately once it’s built) and want to go straight across the front and think they need “at least an 8” gullet”. And since Martin makes one (with a completely different fit theory than other saddle makers) people think they need one...it actually makes it really hard I think to sell mid range quality saddles that are normal 6.5-7” gullets. But I digress. It’s frustrating. I love my Burns and their customer service is second to none IMO if you ever get somewhere that they are doing fittings. They are pricey, but you can run a Martin or a Dbl J into the same price range with fancy smancy add ons - and I’ve never seen bling trip a timer any faster. Even if you don’t buy one, you’ll learn a lot about saddle fit and what you should be looking for when you fit other brands. I also think since most of us have been there at one time or another that the best thing you can do is get an idea of what you want to try and ask if anyone has it locally on a Facebook event page or local group. I would venture to say that as long as you’re understanding of their schedule, polite, and gracious that most folks would let you fit a saddle of theirs on your horse at an event - I know I would and have.
Thank you for this reply! So basically it's just a crap shoot.
After the conversation with Southtxponygirl I decided to research some on the Pozzi saddles. I ended up speaking with a retailer about what they thought. I sent pictures of my mare and she said she thought the Pozzi flex would be ideal so it might would conform slightly better to her back than a hard tree. I understand they have very little flex but maybe it's enough to work. She said she thought the LM gullet and bars fit my mare but the tree has too much rock which is why its dumping on her shoulders. Which I now understand rock is for the drop off after the withers - which this mare certainly has no drop. She also said they are making them now with a spinal relief system which would be good for her short back because its a very short skirted saddle. It all sounds good on paper but who knows if it'll actually work. Obviously, as you said, I'm more concerned about bar angles so I asked what they were. She said the standard Pozzi (not flex) is built on a 6.5" gullet with 45 degree bars and the wide Pozzi is built on a 7" gullet with 43 degree bars. But she said the flex tree is always a 6.5" gullet with those two bar angles as an option.
I will look into Burns. I've never even heard of that brand. I will also start asking around to see some locals have saddles I can try. We have a barrel race in a few weeks so maybe I can find a few people who will let me take a test ride.
Edited by Runninbay 2018-12-13 7:50 AM
| |
| | |
Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | WiscoRacer - 2018-12-12 2:51 PM And that statement right there is why I went through 2 dozen saddles trying to find one for my guy Good luck is all I have to say! Hours of research and reading, buying a saddle I think would work then reselling. And going to shows and bugging people to try their saddles! A lot of saddle makers won't give out the bar angles because they don't want it to be copied; some do which is great but most won't tell you. Saddlemakers.org is a GREAT place to start. It gives you a very good knowledge base to learn about saddle fit and the many different factors. And BHW of course is a wonderful resource too. On another note, the LM looked like a much better fit to me minus the small dry spot. I definitely think the FX3 sat down too far on her shoulders and gave you that dumping feeling.
Oh and just so you know WiscoRacer, I spent what seemed like an eternity on saddlemakers.org and now I feel like im ready to make my own tree! But seriously, what an awesome website! I have learned a lot!
Edited by Runninbay 2018-12-13 8:00 AM
| |
| | |
 Born not Made
Posts: 2930
Location: North Dakota | I know it's tough, but if you said she was standing in a hole, it makes it much harder to access saddle fit from pictures if she's not standing square.
I do feel like the Martin is a bit too wide. No bad, by any means. But I think you could do better. Of course, keep in mind that your horse is coming 5 and she WILL CHANGE in shape as she continues to fill out and "finish" growing.
Don't worry about how many fingers you can fit under the gullet. That really means nothing. Different saddles have different gullet heights. What you want to pay attention to is how the bars of the tree are fitting her back.
The LM doesn't look quite right. At first glace it looks too narrow, but it might just be that the twist is wrong, which makes sense for the dry spots. I agree - not a good fit (too long too).
After many saddles for 3 different horses, I have come to the conclusion that the Circle Y Flex2 saddles are amazing. I love them. I have the WIDE for my horse Red (beefy QH with little withers) and the REG for Shotgun (high withers and big shoulders) and for Dexter. They just fit awesome, sweat marks are perfect, and I personally love how they ride. Yeah, leather quality could be better compared to some of the other saddle brands, but I am so happy with the fit that I am okay with it. So I would be curious how one of these would look on your mare. You said she is mutton withered but does she have a very "flat" type of back too? If so, you might want the wide.
| |
| | |
Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | r_beau - 2018-12-13 2:41 PM I know it's tough, but if you said she was standing in a hole, it makes it much harder to access saddle fit from pictures if she's not standing square.
I do feel like the Martin is a bit too wide. No bad, by any means. But I think you could do better. Of course, keep in mind that your horse is coming 5 and she WILL CHANGE in shape as she continues to fill out and "finish" growing.
Don't worry about how many fingers you can fit under the gullet. That really means nothing. Different saddles have different gullet heights. What you want to pay attention to is how the bars of the tree are fitting her back.
The LM doesn't look quite right. At first glace it looks too narrow, but it might just be that the twist is wrong, which makes sense for the dry spots. I agree - not a good fit (too long too).
After many saddles for 3 different horses, I have come to the conclusion that the Circle Y Flex2 saddles are amazing. I love them. I have the WIDE for my horse Red (beefy QH with little withers) and the REG for Shotgun (high withers and big shoulders) and for Dexter. They just fit awesome, sweat marks are perfect, and I personally love how they ride. Yeah, leather quality could be better compared to some of the other saddle brands, but I am so happy with the fit that I am okay with it. So I would be curious how one of these would look on your mare. You said she is mutton withered but does she have a very "flat" type of back too? If so, you might want the wide.
Yes, I apologize for the not so great pictures. I should have waited until someone could have held her on level ground. There was a Circle Y that I liked at the same place I got the Martin but im not sure if it was a flex or not. I am returning the Martin tomorrow and will take another look it. When this mare gets a bath water will pool across her back so I'm assuming that means she is relatively flat. LOL
 (52ED5F43-5D62-4A12-81DA-ED327152BF99 (1).JPG)
Attachments
----------------
 52ED5F43-5D62-4A12-81DA-ED327152BF99 (1).JPG (99KB - 278 downloads)
| |
| |
| |
Folks on-line