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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
 
Location: Qld Australia | OK Rodeo Girl - Aussie to Aussie - we need to talk!!!!!! (Not in a bad way lol.)
If you are moving cattle and using your mare as a station horse, there is no way in he(( that you need to ride her with a separate training program. You have plenty of time and opportunity to incorporate a training program within your mustering. There are heaps of exercises to do with her as you work.
This will keep her fresh and improve her outlook and also improve your horsemanship skills at the same time. It is really important to concentrate on true collection with these work horses as it is too easy to just reef and pull to get job done without any real thought to how to get it done properly. Concentrate also on being able to move every part of her body with the least amount of cues, also while asking for true collection. This will strengthen her top line and improve her ability to cut out cattle.
With the talk of gravel - I believe you are talking about crusher dust. There are plenty of dressage arenas in Australia that are built with crusher dust so I know where you are coming from but in saying that, I don't like the idea much. Maybe in an arena situation where these dressage riders are super conscious about their horses feet and check them with a fine tooth comb might work. In a situation like you describe I wouldn't be so keen on. In my opinion crusher dust is great UNDER a surface like sand or natural dirt.
With feeding - if your horse is doing the work you say, she needs to be fed some sort of quality feed. If you only have the one horse, I cannot recommend Mitavite Breeda highly enough. It is expensive but if you are only feeding one horse it is an awesome simple feed and worth paying for. I have a stud and have many horses and it is not a viable option, if I had heaps of money or just one horse, it would be my feed of choice. Added to this would be Copra Meal soaked to make it swell. These two feeds together are a calm feed and will mare your mare stunning in her coat and put weight on or maintain weight depending on how much you feed.
Your saddle - do you have a western saddle, fender saddle or a traditional flap saddle? If you have a flap saddle, is your mare high withered or not? If she is not, you need to get rid of it ASAP they are designed for high withered horses only and will not fit to stay on a quarter horse shape. They will also cause pressure points and damage. How many old mustering horses have you seen with huge white spots near their withers? HEAPS and these saddles are why. Have a look at Terry Hall's horses. Some of the best in the country but look at the white hairs!!
I would love to help you more and am more than happy to give you advice. I have been there, done that and believe I can save time and money if you are willing to take advice and learn from others experiences. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
 
Location: OK | XxXRodeoGirlXxX - 2014-02-03 8:08 PM
I hate ground excuses to. Sometimes I hear the pro girls talking about "bad ground" being the reason they didn't run well...more recently a barrel racer I really admire refered to the ground at my local rodeo as "dangerous"( its ploughed) her horse tripped and stumbled, a bit, but I've seen just as bad and worse trips in sand arenas too NOT BEING RUDE: I was a little surprised, I just thought "you'd be stuffed if you had to do any real hard work on your horse" I think it'd be better to be prepared to run in anything as well, for me especially, when I'm out mustering, I can't just be pulling up to walk for five miles just because the dirts a bit deep or wet, my horse lets me know what she can and cant go in and I trust her instinct but she rarely, if ever, pulls up and says "no Im not doing it", I really didn't expect to hear so much complaining about the ground from girls who have run on it all...
When it comes to getting her on her butt, Ive only been working on this particular ground for maybe a week, I do keep an eye on her legs and she doesn't appear sore or rubbed or anything, and she works much better on it, it's out in the open paddock she doesn't work so well.
With the saddle, it's more on the narrow side, but so is she, she's no heavy horse, but with this new saddle blanket the fit seems much better as is slightly wider in the skirt from being used on my drum gutted little brumby, but with my new pad it doesnt seems to move(my old one used to move side to side with her gate) it sits it still.
The thing about the ground being dangerous is that during a real run, your horse may have a flicker of a thought that the ground won't hold, but when you're going that fast, there's no time to correct, so you just hit it. The dangerous part is, when a horse is going 9-0 and gets in bad ground, whether it be deep, hard, rough or whatever, there's too much risk for injury. When you ever go that fast, you'll see what it means. I use my horses outside too and in the mountains, and running barrels is harder on their legs than anything else, hands down.
Also, at the pro level, you pay so much for horses and fuel etc that if a place has a reputation for bad ground, you just skip that place. Not worth it to cripple a $50,000 horse to win $3000. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| rockinj - 2014-02-04 5:24 AM OK Rodeo Girl - Aussie to Aussie - we need to talk!!!!!! (Not in a bad way lol.) If you are moving cattle and using your mare as a station horse, there is no way in he(( that you need to ride her with a separate training program. You have plenty of time and opportunity to incorporate a training program within your mustering. There are heaps of exercises to do with her as you work. This will keep her fresh and improve her outlook and also improve your horsemanship skills at the same time. It is really important to concentrate on true collection with these work horses as it is too easy to just reef and pull to get job done without any real thought to how to get it done properly. Concentrate also on being able to move every part of her body with the least amount of cues, also while asking for true collection. This will strengthen her top line and improve her ability to cut out cattle. With the talk of gravel - I believe you are talking about crusher dust. There are plenty of dressage arenas in Australia that are built with crusher dust so I know where you are coming from but in saying that, I don't like the idea much. Maybe in an arena situation where these dressage riders are super conscious about their horses feet and check them with a fine tooth comb might work. In a situation like you describe I wouldn't be so keen on. In my opinion crusher dust is great UNDER a surface like sand or natural dirt. With feeding - if your horse is doing the work you say, she needs to be fed some sort of quality feed. If you only have the one horse, I cannot recommend Mitavite Breeda highly enough. It is expensive but if you are only feeding one horse it is an awesome simple feed and worth paying for. I have a stud and have many horses and it is not a viable option, if I had heaps of money or just one horse, it would be my feed of choice. Added to this would be Copra Meal soaked to make it swell. These two feeds together are a calm feed and will mare your mare stunning in her coat and put weight on or maintain weight depending on how much you feed. Your saddle - do you have a western saddle, fender saddle or a traditional flap saddle? If you have a flap saddle, is your mare high withered or not? If she is not, you need to get rid of it ASAP they are designed for high withered horses only and will not fit to stay on a quarter horse shape. They will also cause pressure points and damage. How many old mustering horses have you seen with huge white spots near their withers? HEAPS and these saddles are why. Have a look at Terry Hall's horses. Some of the best in the country but look at the white hairs!! I would love to help you more and am more than happy to give you advice. I have been there, done that and believe I can save time and money if you are willing to take advice and learn from others experiences.
Great advice here!
I can also say I understand where you are coming from about needing your horse for work and for pleasure. Growing up any horse on our place had several jobs. I remember gathering cattle all day and then loading up and heading to a barrel race with the same horse. Change the saddle when I got there. It's what our horses were used to. Your horse is used to work, she's conditioned for it and if I were you I wouldn't worry about extra conditioning just for running barrels. Throw in some breezing and slow pattern work and your golden! Your mare covers lots of ground already and I can only imagine the shape she is in. There was a local arena I used to run at back home and the warm up area was just a gravel parking lot. I would find the deepest part of the gravel (this was pee sized gravel they use to lay on top of tar) and warm up there. Never a problem and never slipped. If it works for your mare than just keep an eye out for any soreness or abscess's that could form. I wouldn't want to work in ground more than 10inces deep (im not including the compacted amount underneath but the fluffed ground on top). If that gravel is that deep your gonna have a horse with sore muscles and risk soft tissue damage from the strain.
Again this is only my opinion, good luck! | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
Location: Missouri | jojammer - 2014-02-02 9:31 PM
I believe work on hard ground sometimes is important, as the concussion can build bone strength, but too much does the opposite. I like to work a horse in ALL ground types, but slow and not too tight, just so they can go in whatever. I HATE the ground excuses, mud excuses etc. So I try to be ready for whatever.
The reason I wouldn't work in any kind of gravel, be it pea gravel, shale, or whatever, is that if it's deep at all, it can burn her bulbs and fetlocks. The repeated sinking down will really burn her up and keep her sore, where soft dirt doesn't do it as much (but soft dirt will do it too if you do too many sliding stops etc). This may be a key reason if your horse doesn't want to get down and use her hiney. Her back feet/legs are sore down low. If you took off your shoes and ran around in it for 30 minutes, you will know exactly what's goin on.
I have had barrel/using horses that I have both done no maintenance on and ones I've maintained. I can tell you from experience it's better to at least keep them on an oral joint supplement and some good feed. If not, you will shorten their career. I know maintenance is expensive, but so is buying a new horse every 10 years when if you had only helped them a little, you could get 5 more years of comfortable good use out of old trusty.
Saddle pads, if your saddle is too narrow, use a thinner pad. If it's too wide, use a thicker one. Think of tight shoes and thick and thin socks. You really really need to get a saddle that fits. If not, like a tight shoe, it will cause numbness in places. When that happens over and over, that muscle in those places will die. This will cause dips behind the shoulders etc. Put your saddle on without a pad. Run your hand along the side under the bars of the saddle from shoulder area to hip area. Anywhere you feel more pressure, that's where you need more room. A saddle maker can help you match pads with saddle trees. Pads can help some, but they really aren't the answer. I would never use a pad every day that was that old.
This! 
I have to say I am a little disappointing in a few of the replies I've seen. This young lady is obviously trying to learn, and is trying very hard to take the advice she can get, even if it was rudely given. She's obviously concerned about her horse's well being as well. Yet ALMOST everyone who has posted on her thread has been extremely negative towards her.
ETA after reading the last few comments I'm relieved to see a few posters sharing their wisdom and a much more positive manner :)
Edited by calawso 2014-02-04 10:25 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 151
Location: Australia | Southern NSW actually, but I drove here and there and everywhere not my own cattle though :) I use a Syd Hill synthetic stock saddle, not a barrel racing one. The saddle doesnt move as such the blanket does. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 151
Location: Australia | I do incorporate training into the cattle work, while the disciplines may not be similar the basics are. I try to be very soft with my hands, she works well on basically all leg, with a touch from the spur when she gets lazy. I try not to dig her too much.
I ride in a syd hill synthetic fender, it doesnt rub/pressure her withers at alll. Shes not high withered but she does have a bit of a wither, shes narrow so this saddle fits well its just the back im concerned about. I was at ag college in Longreach and we fed the sale team on breeda and copra as well as the vegetable oil I mentioned and it worked well, its a diet id like to have her on, but in my liitle town they dont sell it Im pretty sure, and she seems to keep condition, and health up on just grass, and the chaff and oil gives her the energy, shes a mildly hot mare as it is so i dont like feeds that fizz her up. | |
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 Ditch the Stirrups
Posts: 5369
Location: Sorrow Not! Defending against workplace bullies | OP: I dont understand the purpose of your post. When anyone gives advice you are saying you have already thought of that or they do not understand the question (although your questions seem clearly stated). That is why I suggested pictures, to make your situation more clear. ....I am not being snarky; that's just what I am hearing. Maybe you were looking for reassurance that what you are doing is OK? Which is fine but confusing. You seem like a nice person and I loved reading about mustering. I am just confused. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | I do tend to agree with the above poster, I think we need some pics.
What pad are you using Rrodeogirl? If it is one of those white felt ones you need to stomp it in the dirt and then wash it properly before it will work properly. I have no idea why they are made like that but brand new they are hopeless. Once they are worn in they are fantasitc.
If it is a different type and it still moves under your saddle, I am inclined to agree it is due to poor saddle fit. Jjust because rhe saddle does not move does not mean it fits well.
Syd Hill are a long time brand but trust me when I say they are not the best fit - they are no longer a hand made company but factory built and are not individually made at all. Just because it is Syd Hill no longer equates to quality.
If you are wanting to stay in a stock saddle, I recommend you start saving your pennies to buy a fender saddle. I will post pics of mine when I get to work. DO NOT buy a James Saddlery Fender or a Toowoomba Saddlery Fender just because they are reasonably priced, you will run into the same issues as they are factory made.
I have to get going to work but I will post more later.
Please take this advice as it is intended, as an Aussie who in her teens was in the exact same boat. I thought I knew a lot. I had been around old time bushies all my life and could ride the hair off everything. I read all the training books I could get my hands on to help me improve my horsemanship and just devoured training videos. I started opening my eyes and learning A LOT.
The first DATE for my hubby and I was a clinic he WAS RUNNING and boy, I was not even game to get my trophy saddle out of my truck. He showed me in one afternoon that I watched, just how much I did not know. I have learned so very much and now can say I am a horseman, not just a horse rider. I would love to help you move in the right direction if you are willing. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | calawso - 2014-02-04 11:20 PM jojammer - 2014-02-02 9:31 PM I believe work on hard ground sometimes is important, as the concussion can build bone strength, but too much does the opposite. I like to work a horse in ALL ground types, but slow and not too tight, just so they can go in whatever. I HATE the ground excuses, mud excuses etc. So I try to be ready for whatever. The reason I wouldn't work in any kind of gravel, be it pea gravel, shale, or whatever, is that if it's deep at all, it can burn her bulbs and fetlocks. The repeated sinking down will really burn her up and keep her sore, where soft dirt doesn't do it as much (but soft dirt will do it too if you do too many sliding stops etc). This may be a key reason if your horse doesn't want to get down and use her hiney. Her back feet/legs are sore down low. If you took off your shoes and ran around in it for 30 minutes, you will know exactly what's goin on. I have had barrel/using horses that I have both done no maintenance on and ones I've maintained. I can tell you from experience it's better to at least keep them on an oral joint supplement and some good feed. If not, you will shorten their career. I know maintenance is expensive, but so is buying a new horse every 10 years when if you had only helped them a little, you could get 5 more years of comfortable good use out of old trusty. Saddle pads, if your saddle is too narrow, use a thinner pad. If it's too wide, use a thicker one. Think of tight shoes and thick and thin socks. You really really need to get a saddle that fits. If not, like a tight shoe, it will cause numbness in places. When that happens over and over, that muscle in those places will die. This will cause dips behind the shoulders etc. Put your saddle on without a pad. Run your hand along the side under the bars of the saddle from shoulder area to hip area. Anywhere you feel more pressure, that's where you need more room. A saddle maker can help you match pads with saddle trees. Pads can help some, but they really aren't the answer. I would never use a pad every day that was that old. This! I have to say I am a little disappointing in a few of the replies I've seen. This young lady is obviously trying to learn, and is trying very hard to take the advice she can get, even if it was rudely given. She's obviously concerned about her horse's well being as well. Yet ALMOST everyone who has posted on her thread has been extremely negative towards her. ETA after reading the last few comments I'm relieved to see a few posters sharing their wisdom and a much more positive manner : )
Because we said we wouldnt work them in gravel? I dont think that is rude. it was being honest.
then storys were hard to figure out what she was asking and stating.. so no negative ..  | |
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Veteran
Posts: 151
Location: Australia | Nothing I am doing to my horse is hurting her or effecting her badly. Thats what I KNOW. Basically all I'm asking is ADVICE and your OPINIONS. My first question was IS IT TOO DEEP TO WORK IN? Not DOES IT HURT MY HORSE? I know the second answer, I was ASKING FOR THE FIRST. When it comes to any question I ask, it's WHATS EVERYONE ELSES ADVICE? not PLEASE TAKE THE **** OUT OF ME FOR NOT DOING IT YOUR WAY.
I am taking what I think would work for my horse from these posts and using it, not running myself ragged doing everything everyone is saying or stressing because I haven't done it yet. I know my horse, I'm asking for advice on how to better her, not completely change her.
I do get very confusing I guess, in my head I can picture whats going on but I cant really write it out so clearly, so I'll get some photos of the ground, and the saddle as soon as I can. And no, my saddle cloth is not white, I really don't know what it is, other than its softer, thicker and seems more comfortable than my other one. My saddle is a fender, I cant ride in ordinary stock saddles, I dont know why its just not comfortable for me, but unless this saddle ever starts hurting my horse I wouldnt change it. Its comfortable, I can sit in it fifteen hours a day and not get sore, it sits me perfectly, my old western used to sit my legs up in the girth instead of behind the girth and it felt odd and awkward to put them back properly, and its synthetic so I dont have to stress about when another horse I was droving on rolled in it, or when a young mare I was riding drug it under a tree! I patched it up and kept riding. If it had of been a fancy barrel saddle, or any good saddle for that matter. Id probably have sat on the side of the road and cried! Anytime I want I can get a pretty saddle that looks good, but in my line of work I go for practicality over pretty. My question wasn't about my saddle, but the blanket.
Thanks to everyone who's been understanding and helpful! I really am getting alot from people who are trying to understand my posts! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | OK, you keep doing what you are doing then.
Have a good day. | |
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