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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: SW North Dakota | ausranch - 2013-11-26 2:29 PM
LMS - 2013-11-26 11:11 AM
I think it would be wise for you to call and talk to someone at Woody's feed, I like their futurity blend-high protein 16-18% and very small portion's, I fed my ribby weanling that all last winter and within a month or so he looked great and continues to look great, not so much concentrate but just enough to help through those awkward stages. I would bet there is some knowledge at Woody's to help you decide especially since you already have some trouble with joints.Â
I'd agree. We have fed their Complete C (which is a ration balancer and not a complete feed ) and been very happy. You only have to feed about a pound and it's got the protein and minerals he needs without the energy. That's what I'd use - one of the highest quality ration balancers from Woodys, Progressive Nutrition, or Buckeye.
I remember once years ago we were feeding probably 8 colts one winter. All by our 16.1 stud so all of them were growing towards being big horses. I ran out of Woody's and switched for 2 weeks to Strategy because everyone said it was just as good. Ha! I went from zero colts with physitis bumps to all of them having them. Also, they dropped topline muscle, showed ribs, got tummies, got a tiny bit cowhocked. Two stinking weeks! Obviously we switched back. It worked and they were fine again quickly. There is no substitute for quality protein. I think two or three of those colts are now successful barrel horses and one is a hunter/jumper so that makes me even more glad I went to the extra expense of the better feed.
Senior feeds are made for senior horses - the opposite of what you have.
Good luck!
I will look into Woody's since it isn't all that far from me. I think our local cenex feed store even carries some of their products. If not, its about an hour drive to get to Woody's.
This guy is out of a tall stud as well as the mare. He is going to be huge when he is done growing. I think what i'm missing is the protein. He looked pretty good when I got him, but he was out on pasture with his mom. He has lost his top line, gotten a huge tummy, not really showing ribs due to his hair but i can feel them easily. He has one swollen pastern on his back left. But he also scraped that which i'm treating. He's basically just super stiff and sore. He has some heat in his lower jts. He is cowhocked and slightly knock kneed but I don't remember him being like that when I first brought him home. He's been like this for close to 2 months now. I'm really hoping that he pulls out of this. He was suppose to be my upcoming barrel horse when he gets old enough. He's Dash for Cash/Streaking Six, Frosty Feature/Mr. Illuminator bred. I'm just sick to my stomach about it. :(
Thank you for telling me your story...it gives me a little hope for my guy!
edited for spelling
Edited by klutz02 2013-11-26 4:22 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: SW North Dakota | aqhabarrelchic1 - 2013-11-26 3:15 PM
klutz02 - 2013-11-27 10:22 AM He is on absolutely no alfalfa at all so that was never an issue. I agree...I can't imagine taking him off of everything. He is growing and needs something. I just don't want to encourage any excessive growth from here on out. Sounds like I have a protein imbalance...judging what you guys have said. I will look into the rejuvinade. What are OCD pellets? I've never heard of them.
 It's not a protein iinbalence it's a cal/phos imbalance... Baby's need 16+ proteinÂ
I should have said that he's not getting enough protein...he's only on hay right now. What's the cal/phos imbalance? How do I figure out what he needs? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 808
| Check out ADM mineral tubs, they are 20% protein and have 30% less molasses then equilix, or Purinas and is cheaper. They can gauge themselves how much they need etc | |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
 
| I would do what your vet says---stick with the hay. As far as the belly, this can be caused by eating a lot of hay and by lack of exercise. It can also be from their type of build. I have two full sisters and one is tall and lean and has never had a gut and her little sister is a big tall chunk and has had a gut most of her life. She will eventually grow out of it. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 641
Location: Michigan | Giving MSM and Horse Manna (4 oz per day) fixed mine last year. Â One of the most important minerals you want to make sure your weanling is getting is copper-- the Rejuvenaide someone else posted is a decent start- but the Horse Manna has more and is more affordable. (I did lots of calculations.) Plus in my area Horse Manna is a lot easier to find than Rejuvenaide.
ETA: 4 oz of the horse manna. The MSM I gave about 10,000 mg.Â
Edited by DVM2Be 2013-11-26 5:33 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 641
Location: Michigan | klutz02 - 2013-11-26 4:16 PM ausranch - 2013-11-26 2:29 PM LMS - 2013-11-26 11:11 AM I think it would be wise for you to call and talk to someone at Woody's feed, I like their futurity blend-high protein 16-18% and very small portion's, I fed my ribby weanling that all last winter and within a month or so he looked great and continues to look great, not so much concentrate but just enough to help through those awkward stages. I would bet there is some knowledge at Woody's to help you decide especially since you already have some trouble with joints. I'd agree. We have fed their Complete C (which is a ration balancer and not a complete feed ) and been very happy. You only have to feed about a pound and it's got the protein and minerals he needs without the energy. That's what I'd use - one of the highest quality ration balancers from Woodys, Progressive Nutrition, or Buckeye. I remember once years ago we were feeding probably 8 colts one winter. All by our 16.1 stud so all of them were growing towards being big horses. I ran out of Woody's and switched for 2 weeks to Strategy because everyone said it was just as good. Ha! I went from zero colts with physitis bumps to all of them having them. Also, they dropped topline muscle, showed ribs, got tummies, got a tiny bit cowhocked. Two stinking weeks! Obviously we switched back. It worked and they were fine again quickly. There is no substitute for quality protein. I think two or three of those colts are now successful barrel horses and one is a hunter/jumper so that makes me even more glad I went to the extra expense of the better feed. Senior feeds are made for senior horses - the opposite of what you have. Good luck! I will look into Woody's since it isn't all that far from me. I think our local cenex feed store even carries some of their products. If not, its about an hour drive to get to Woody's. This guy is out of a tall stud as well as the mare. He is going to be huge when he is done growing. I think what i'm missing is the protein. He looked pretty good when I got him, but he was out on pasture with his mom. He has lost his top line, gotten a huge tummy, not really showing ribs due to his hair but i can feel them easily. He has one swollen pastern on his back left. But he also scraped that which i'm treating. He's basically just super stiff and sore. He has some heat in his lower jts. He is cowhocked and slightly knock kneed but I don't remember him being like that when I first brought him home. He's been like this for close to 2 months now. I'm really hoping that he pulls out of this. He was suppose to be my upcoming barrel horse when he gets old enough. He's Dash for Cash/Streaking Six, Frosty Feature/Mr. Illuminator bred. I'm just sick to my stomach about it. : ( Thank you for telling me your story...it gives me a little hope for my guy! edited for spelling
You may also want to get x-rays of any of the swollen joints. My filly that had a brief bout with physitis did also end up having OCD in 3 of her fetlocks. She too was a large, fast-growing weanling. She had to have surgery to remove the chips. The earlier you catch it the better though.
All developmental orthopedic defects can signal there's a nutritional imbalance. I did my best with my filly- I even got several cuttings of our hay analyzed- but with the horses that are programmed to grow rapidly- sometimes all you can do is damage control. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | DVM2Be - 2013-11-26 4:37 PM
klutz02 - 2013-11-26 4:16 PM ausranch - 2013-11-26 2:29 PM LMS - 2013-11-26 11:11 AM I think it would be wise for you to call and talk to someone at Woody's feed, I like their futurity blend-high protein 16-18% and very small portion's, I fed my ribby weanling that all last winter and within a month or so he looked great and continues to look great, not so much concentrate but just enough to help through those awkward stages. I would bet there is some knowledge at Woody's to help you decide especially since you already have some trouble with joints. I'd agree. We have fed their Complete C (which is a ration balancer and not a complete feed ) and been very happy. You only have to feed about a pound and it's got the protein and minerals he needs without the energy. That's what I'd use - one of the highest quality ration balancers from Woodys, Progressive Nutrition, or Buckeye. I remember once years ago we were feeding probably 8 colts one winter. All by our 16.1 stud so all of them were growing towards being big horses. I ran out of Woody's and switched for 2 weeks to Strategy because everyone said it was just as good. Ha! I went from zero colts with physitis bumps to all of them having them. Also, they dropped topline muscle, showed ribs, got tummies, got a tiny bit cowhocked. Two stinking weeks! Obviously we switched back. It worked and they were fine again quickly. There is no substitute for quality protein. I think two or three of those colts are now successful barrel horses and one is a hunter/jumper so that makes me even more glad I went to the extra expense of the better feed. Senior feeds are made for senior horses - the opposite of what you have. Good luck! I will look into Woody's since it isn't all that far from me. I think our local cenex feed store even carries some of their products. If not, its about an hour drive to get to Woody's. This guy is out of a tall stud as well as the mare. He is going to be huge when he is done growing. I think what i'm missing is the protein. He looked pretty good when I got him, but he was out on pasture with his mom. He has lost his top line, gotten a huge tummy, not really showing ribs due to his hair but i can feel them easily. He has one swollen pastern on his back left. But he also scraped that which i'm treating. He's basically just super stiff and sore. He has some heat in his lower jts. He is cowhocked and slightly knock kneed but I don't remember him being like that when I first brought him home. He's been like this for close to 2 months now. I'm really hoping that he pulls out of this. He was suppose to be my upcoming barrel horse when he gets old enough. He's Dash for Cash/Streaking Six, Frosty Feature/Mr. Illuminator bred. I'm just sick to my stomach about it. : ( Thank you for telling me your story...it gives me a little hope for my guy! edited for spelling
All developmental orthopedic defects can signal there's a nutritional imbalance. Â I did my best with my filly- I even got several cuttings of our hay analyzed- but with the horses that are programmed to grow rapidly- sometimes all you can do is damage control.
Yeah, I hate to say it but I'd agree with the xrays. And I'd think about getting a second opinion from another vet. Nothing against yours, but vet students don't get much equine nutrition in school so it varies, really, how much they get a chance to pick up after school. For that reason, I think it's good to collect opinions. Nothing but grass hay sounds a bit old school to me although there are probably worse ideas. If you are up for a trip, Dr. Vlahos over at Sheridan, WY has a master's in equine nutrition too and he's good. He's also expensive. But stiffness and heat in limbs sounds pretty scary to me.
Good luck. And I'm really sorry this happened to you - because it does stink. It's tricky to get all the minerals and protein that they have to have but not get over fed for the legs. Difficult balancing act - that's why I like the ration balancers since you feed so little.
My first thought about feeding any kind of feed at an amount less than the manufacturer suggests is that it's somehow not the right feed for the job at hand. Shouldn't manufacturers know the amount a horse needs to get best effect? If you feed less aren't you going to be missing nutrients?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: SW North Dakota | ausranch - 2013-11-26 6:27 PM
DVM2Be - 2013-11-26 4:37 PM
klutz02 - 2013-11-26 4:16 PM ausranch - 2013-11-26 2:29 PM LMS - 2013-11-26 11:11 AM I think it would be wise for you to call and talk to someone at Woody's feed, I like their futurity blend-high protein 16-18% and very small portion's, I fed my ribby weanling that all last winter and within a month or so he looked great and continues to look great, not so much concentrate but just enough to help through those awkward stages. I would bet there is some knowledge at Woody's to help you decide especially since you already have some trouble with joints. I'd agree. We have fed their Complete C (which is a ration balancer and not a complete feed ) and been very happy. You only have to feed about a pound and it's got the protein and minerals he needs without the energy. That's what I'd use - one of the highest quality ration balancers from Woodys, Progressive Nutrition, or Buckeye. I remember once years ago we were feeding probably 8 colts one winter. All by our 16.1 stud so all of them were growing towards being big horses. I ran out of Woody's and switched for 2 weeks to Strategy because everyone said it was just as good. Ha! I went from zero colts with physitis bumps to all of them having them. Also, they dropped topline muscle, showed ribs, got tummies, got a tiny bit cowhocked. Two stinking weeks! Obviously we switched back. It worked and they were fine again quickly. There is no substitute for quality protein. I think two or three of those colts are now successful barrel horses and one is a hunter/jumper so that makes me even more glad I went to the extra expense of the better feed. Senior feeds are made for senior horses - the opposite of what you have. Good luck! I will look into Woody's since it isn't all that far from me. I think our local cenex feed store even carries some of their products. If not, its about an hour drive to get to Woody's. This guy is out of a tall stud as well as the mare. He is going to be huge when he is done growing. I think what i'm missing is the protein. He looked pretty good when I got him, but he was out on pasture with his mom. He has lost his top line, gotten a huge tummy, not really showing ribs due to his hair but i can feel them easily. He has one swollen pastern on his back left. But he also scraped that which i'm treating. He's basically just super stiff and sore. He has some heat in his lower jts. He is cowhocked and slightly knock kneed but I don't remember him being like that when I first brought him home. He's been like this for close to 2 months now. I'm really hoping that he pulls out of this. He was suppose to be my upcoming barrel horse when he gets old enough. He's Dash for Cash/Streaking Six, Frosty Feature/Mr. Illuminator bred. I'm just sick to my stomach about it. : ( Thank you for telling me your story...it gives me a little hope for my guy! edited for spelling
All developmental orthopedic defects can signal there's a nutritional imbalance. Â I did my best with my filly- I even got several cuttings of our hay analyzed- but with the horses that are programmed to grow rapidly- sometimes all you can do is damage control.
Yeah, I hate to say it but I'd agree with the xrays. And I'd think about getting a second opinion from another vet. Nothing against yours, but vet students don't get much equine nutrition in school so it varies, really, how much they get a chance to pick up after school. For that reason, I think it's good to collect opinions. Nothing but grass hay sounds a bit old school to me although there are probably worse ideas. If you are up for a trip, Dr. Vlahos over at Sheridan, WY has a master's in equine nutrition too and he's good. He's also expensive. But stiffness and heat in limbs sounds pretty scary to me.
Good luck. And I'm really sorry this happened to you - because it does stink. It's tricky to get all the minerals and protein that they have to have but not get over fed for the legs. Difficult balancing act - that's why I like the ration balancers since you feed so little.
My first thought about feeding any kind of feed at an amount less than the manufacturer suggests is that it's somehow not the right feed for the job at hand. Shouldn't manufacturers know the amount a horse needs to get best effect? If you feed less aren't you going to be missing nutrients?
My vet is good. He's a race horse vet over in MN. He's been around the block a long time and has a ton of experience. He's the go to man around here. I, for the most part, do trust him. I just don't agree with taking him off of everything but hay, especially since it's only grass hay. I just don't think it has enough nutrients in it for a growing colt so I figured everyone on here would have some advice for me. 
I have talked to another vet...he really didnt' have any comments on what to feed him but he has me giving him bute 2x a day for three days, resting for 5 days, bute for 3 more days. If that doesn't help with his stiffness, I am going to do some x-rays to see what's going on.
I agree that this does suck really bad. I've never had to deal with this before. It really sucks because he has a wonderful disposition and so smart. I had high hopes for him. I unfortunately can't afford a ton of medical procedures on him. He was a cheap $300 project that I could say that I started from scratch. If he does end up having OCD in his fetlocks, I can't afford surgery. :( I'm crossing my fingers that it isn't that serious. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 641
Location: Michigan | klutz02 - 2013-11-26 8:30 PM ausranch - 2013-11-26 6:27 PM DVM2Be - 2013-11-26 4:37 PM klutz02 - 2013-11-26 4:16 PM ausranch - 2013-11-26 2:29 PM LMS - 2013-11-26 11:11 AM I think it would be wise for you to call and talk to someone at Woody's feed, I like their futurity blend-high protein 16-18% and very small portion's, I fed my ribby weanling that all last winter and within a month or so he looked great and continues to look great, not so much concentrate but just enough to help through those awkward stages. I would bet there is some knowledge at Woody's to help you decide especially since you already have some trouble with joints. I'd agree. We have fed their Complete C (which is a ration balancer and not a complete feed ) and been very happy. You only have to feed about a pound and it's got the protein and minerals he needs without the energy. That's what I'd use - one of the highest quality ration balancers from Woodys, Progressive Nutrition, or Buckeye. I remember once years ago we were feeding probably 8 colts one winter. All by our 16.1 stud so all of them were growing towards being big horses. I ran out of Woody's and switched for 2 weeks to Strategy because everyone said it was just as good. Ha! I went from zero colts with physitis bumps to all of them having them. Also, they dropped topline muscle, showed ribs, got tummies, got a tiny bit cowhocked. Two stinking weeks! Obviously we switched back. It worked and they were fine again quickly. There is no substitute for quality protein. I think two or three of those colts are now successful barrel horses and one is a hunter/jumper so that makes me even more glad I went to the extra expense of the better feed. Senior feeds are made for senior horses - the opposite of what you have. Good luck! I will look into Woody's since it isn't all that far from me. I think our local cenex feed store even carries some of their products. If not, its about an hour drive to get to Woody's. This guy is out of a tall stud as well as the mare. He is going to be huge when he is done growing. I think what i'm missing is the protein. He looked pretty good when I got him, but he was out on pasture with his mom. He has lost his top line, gotten a huge tummy, not really showing ribs due to his hair but i can feel them easily. He has one swollen pastern on his back left. But he also scraped that which i'm treating. He's basically just super stiff and sore. He has some heat in his lower jts. He is cowhocked and slightly knock kneed but I don't remember him being like that when I first brought him home. He's been like this for close to 2 months now. I'm really hoping that he pulls out of this. He was suppose to be my upcoming barrel horse when he gets old enough. He's Dash for Cash/Streaking Six, Frosty Feature/Mr. Illuminator bred. I'm just sick to my stomach about it. : ( Thank you for telling me your story...it gives me a little hope for my guy! edited for spelling
All developmental orthopedic defects can signal there's a nutritional imbalance. I did my best with my filly- I even got several cuttings of our hay analyzed- but with the horses that are programmed to grow rapidly- sometimes all you can do is damage control. Yeah, I hate to say it but I'd agree with the xrays. And I'd think about getting a second opinion from another vet. Nothing against yours, but vet students don't get much equine nutrition in school so it varies, really, how much they get a chance to pick up after school. For that reason, I think it's good to collect opinions. Nothing but grass hay sounds a bit old school to me although there are probably worse ideas. If you are up for a trip, Dr. Vlahos over at Sheridan, WY has a master's in equine nutrition too and he's good. He's also expensive. But stiffness and heat in limbs sounds pretty scary to me. Good luck. And I'm really sorry this happened to you - because it does stink. It's tricky to get all the minerals and protein that they have to have but not get over fed for the legs. Difficult balancing act - that's why I like the ration balancers since you feed so little. My first thought about feeding any kind of feed at an amount less than the manufacturer suggests is that it's somehow not the right feed for the job at hand. Shouldn't manufacturers know the amount a horse needs to get best effect? If you feed less aren't you going to be missing nutrients? My vet is good. He's a race horse vet over in MN. He's been around the block a long time and has a ton of experience. He's the go to man around here. I, for the most part, do trust him. I just don't agree with taking him off of everything but hay, especially since it's only grass hay. I just don't think it has enough nutrients in it for a growing colt so I figured everyone on here would have some advice for me. I have talked to another vet...he really didnt' have any comments on what to feed him but he has me giving him bute 2x a day for three days, resting for 5 days, bute for 3 more days. If that doesn't help with his stiffness, I am going to do some x-rays to see what's going on. I agree that this does suck really bad. I've never had to deal with this before. It really sucks because he has a wonderful dis position and so smart. I had high hopes for him. I unfortunately can't afford a ton of medical procedures on him. He was a cheap $300 project that I could say that I started from scratch. If he does end up having OCD in his fetlocks, I can't afford surgery. : ( I'm crossing my fingers that it isn't that serious.
If you can't afford the surgery- you probably want to do x-rays soon. I would hate to see you put a bunch of money into supplements, feeds, medications, etc. and then find out he had OCD too. (As a sidenote- they are learning now that some OCD lesions may be able to heal themselves naturally over time, but it depends on type and location. A free floating chip that's in the joint space is probably going to cause irreparable damage over time whether or not it ends up fusing back somewhere. A vet that takes x-rays for you should be able to tell you the prognosis.)
1-2 weeks on MSM cleared up my filly's physitis (knees). That is cheap and easier on the gut than bute. Might buy you some time and make him more comfortable while you're getting it all figured out. Long term I still say to try the Horse Manna to increase copper/minerals. A six week supply is only about $19. | |
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  The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | I would feed a ration balancer. I had a colt that was HUGE. (dam was 16.2 sire 16 hands.) At 6 months he was as tall as or TALLER Than many folks YEARLINGS. By 18 months he was 15.3. I fed a ration balancer and never had any issues with him. | |
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| klutz02 - 2013-11-26 9:49 AM Ok, so I just found this.... does this sound like something I should look into? He isn't severe...maybe low to moderate physitis. Six-Month-Old Weanling with severe physitis (current weight of 475 pounds with mature weight of 1100 pounds). Feed Triple Crown 30% Supplement at 2.0 pounds daily and 7 pounds daily of moderate quality grass hay with no pasture or turnout. This provides a 40% calorie reduction and should result in cessation of physitis symptoms in 6 weeks. Then the feeding program can be changed to an appropriate Legends or Triple Crown horse feed to maintain a normal growth rate (1.59 pounds/day). TC 30% is an awesome ration balancer for a lot of grass hays. And yes, it is good for weanlings too.
Edited to add: But, you don't feed anywhere near 7 pounds a day. More like 1/2 pound for a weanling. It's very nutrient dense.
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2013-11-29 5:11 PM
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