|
|
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
   
Location: North Dakota | annemarea - 2014-01-01 3:57 PM Cavy, After watching the video of your gelding, I'm interested. What kinds of diagnostics/test have been done on him? Has he had a navicular/heel pain diagnosis? Well, he's technically not mine, he's my sister's, so my parents are in charge of decisions regarding him, but since my dad's version of "vet" is a bullet to the head and my mom doesn't know a thing about horses, I get saddled with the responsibility. He did have a full lameness exam done. She blocked him out and took x-rays of his lower leg and hoof. As it happens, his farrier (who's done him for years) was there and looked at the x-rays as well. The lameness seems to be somewhere in the lower leg, but they weren't able to see any issues in his hooves or legs in the x-rays.
It was weird cause he's kept in a small run that's, idk, 20x12? Anyway, it's small so he's obviously on his own in there. One day she went to ride and I was there and he was off for no reason. No swelling, no heat, nary a laceration, not particularly sensitive to touch, and no signs of distress. The vet thinks it's some sort of strain or other soft tissue injury because it's actually more apparent on deeper, softer ground. On hard ground he looks somewhat better. My sis even (against my advice) took him to a race shortly after I noticed him being off, and her trainer didn't think it was anything but he ran the pattern fine..of couse, she's just learning so "ran" is a relative term.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2014-01-01 4:26 PM
|
|
| |
|
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | mtcanchazer - 2014-01-01 4:09 PM
Cavy, I watched both the videos, I don't have much to say about the gelding, he doesn't look awful, but I can see what you are talking about. With my old mare, she had arthritis in her knee, but she was ten years older than your gelding.
On your mare, did your try the fetlock when you were doing x-rays and tests? To me it looks lower on her leg (like fetlock area), but am no lameness expert by any means.
Yes, we blocked her out incrementally up her entire leg from hoof to above the stifle, as well as x-rays all up and down the leg. Neither of those pointed to anything in the fetlock...or anywhere else for that matter! I've had 3 vets just look at her and watch her move and one said hock, one said hip or stifle, and other thought hock or stifle. This was before she had any x-rays or anything done. I wish we had a way of looking higher up in the hip/pelvic region, but unfortunately that is not possible. |
|
| |
|
  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | does the gelding have shoes ?
I dont see him gimpy.. I see a tight back..the video kept stopping and lagging maybe i missed it..
do you lunge them alot in tight circle .. your mare I mean?
she appears hocks or sore ovaries to me but I think I have said that before months ago.. did you inject her hocks all joints? did you have a sonogram of her ovary when she cycles... Id also not recommend Lunging like that at all. circles are way to small.. and if shes sore it will make it worse.. good luck as I said before..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-01 4:39 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | I can't watch the second video....but on same page as Bibliafarm about the gelding....looks tight in the back and off on the back legs....but video isn't greatest since it goes from light to dark.......good luck! |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I see you have xrayed, but what about ultrasound?
What did the blocks say, and were these lameness vet knowledgable?
I had one vet block my horse, diagnosed him with laminitis since my horse trotted off sound with the block, long story short, the vet misdiagnosed because the nerve block he used did not block that region. I bit the bullet took my horse to my vet 4 hours away, my horse was diagnosed while jumping out of the trailer, radiographs and correct blocking proved diagnosis.
Also if you suspect the foot, soak foot in iodine for a week, then xray, the iodine will light up and show any abnormalities in the foot |
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-01 4:38 PM does the gelding have shoes ?
I dont see him gimpy.. I see a tight back..the video kept stopping and lagging maybe i missed it..
do you lunge them alot in tight circle .. your mare I mean?
she appears hocks or sore ovaries to me but I think I have said that before months ago.. did you inject her hocks all joints? did you have a sonogram of her ovary when she cycles... Id also not recommend Lunging like that at all. circles are way to small.. and if shes sore it will make it worse.. good luck as I said before..
I agree no more lunging this mare, you know shes sore and hurting and lunging is the worst thing for her. Get her stiffle checked and I would have her pelvic area checked too.  |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | cavyrunsbarrels - 2014-01-01 5:02 PM Cashbaby - 2014-01-01 3:20 PM After seeing the video of the gelding, I would agree that PSSM is probably not the cause of his issues. Might check it out further for the mare, did you pull blood work on her yet? Maybe the vet has ruled it out with her some of her levels? Like I said before, I hadn't followed any of your prior lameness posts, so I really have no idea what you may have done or ruled out. Sorry if I'm asking something you have already done. I haven't had any bloodwork done yet. I've had her x-rayed (2 vets analyzed those ), blocked up to above her stifle, chiro'd/massaged twice, dentist, and she's been lame since I brought her home last June, so she's been off all that time (with the exception of the couple attempts to ride her before I knew she was lame and when she appeared better, but wasn't ). The gelding has been lame since about the beginning of Nov. We blocked him out and it appears to be something in the lower half of the leg. Had x-rays, regular farrier work, chrio, oh and they both got injections for mild arthritis.Did she get hock injections and all joints.. did they inject stifles as well.
and how long ago..I did a search of 6 months back and read past threads regarding her.. .. did you ever do sonogram on her ovaries?
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-02 11:26 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | I'm confused, is there a bunch of history on the mare that I'm missing since this post?....... Did you decide this vet's diagnosis was wrong? It's not spring yet, soft tissue injuries can take months to heal. Have you taken her in for follow up appts to see how her recovery is progressing? If the vet told you to keep her in a pen and rest her, you do understand that lunging her in small circles is going to set her recovery time back? You're doing nothing but irritating the original injury.
ETA 2013-11-01 was the date you posted this diagnosis. Hardly enough time for a soft tissue injury to heal.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the bb's that have been helpful and supportive while I've been going through this rough patch with Shimmer. Our GOOD vet was FINALLY in town and we've made some progress. The previous vet had said Shimmer had arthritis and was pretty much ready for the glue factory. Well this one looked at those x-rays and was like umm she has some arthritis in her hocks and her left stifle isn't great but the hocks wouldn't make her lame. She blocked her leg and then we injected her stifle, but she thinks there is some ligament damage somewhere above the stifle. So in short, Shimmer is not a lost cause. But the vet recommended she be put in a pen until spring to let her heal. And my super awesome barn owner said I can ride her personal horse while she is down south for the winter.
Edited by MS2011 2014-01-02 12:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | MS2011 - 2014-01-02 12:38 PM I'm confused, is there a bunch of history on the mare that I'm missing since this post?....... Did you decide this vet's diagnosis was wrong? It's not spring yet, soft tissue injuries can take months to heal. Have you taken her in for follow up appts to see how her recovery is progressing? If the vet told you to keep her in a pen and rest her, you do understand that lunging her in small circles is going to set her recovery time back? You're doing nothing but irritating the original injury.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the bb's that have been helpful and supportive while I've been going through this rough patch with Shimmer. Our GOOD vet was FINALLY in town and we've made some progress. The previous vet had said Shimmer had arthritis and was pretty much ready for the glue factory. Well this one looked at those x-rays and was like umm she has some arthritis in her hocks and her left stifle isn't great but the hocks wouldn't make her lame. She blocked her leg and then we injected her stifle, but she thinks there is some ligament damage somewhere above the stifle. So in short, Shimmer is not a lost cause. But the vet recommended she be put in a pen until spring to let her heal. And my super awesome barn owner said I can ride her personal horse while she is down south for the winter.
well gosh....past threads say other wise cavy so maybe do as told she might heal it takes alot of time.. |
|
| |
|
 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Well....nutrition is very important but no I don't think it's causing the issues you're fighting.
I just watched the video's & it's hard to see much on the gelding. I used to own a mare that moved very similar to yours. I vetted, chiro'd & fought with it for a couple years before I gave up. She was a nice enough mare in every way that I decided to breed her, gave her 2 years off while bred & raising her foal & she came back 100% sound. Sometimes time is the best medicine there is. I know a lot of people would disagree with me but if she was mine I'd kick her out in the big pasture at Betty's for the winter. Don't make her do a single circle or any forced work until spring and see where you are then. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | SaraJean - 2014-01-02 1:27 PM Well....nutrition is very important but no I don't think it's causing the issues you're fighting.
I just watched the video's & it's hard to see much on the gelding. I used to own a mare that moved very similar to yours. I vetted, chiro'd & fought with it for a couple years before I gave up. She was a nice enough mare in every way that I decided to breed her, gave her 2 years off while bred & raising her foal & she came back 100% sound. Sometimes time is the best medicine there is. I know a lot of people would disagree with me but if she was mine I'd kick her out in the big pasture at Betty's for the winter. Don't make her do a single circle or any forced work until spring and see where you are then.
That is what the vet said as well. stifle issues take time.. |
|
| |
|
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Ok, so going back, we determined the vet who said her hocks were shot was very very wrong. My usual (well liked and highly recommended) vet determined her STIFLE has mild arthritis NOT the hocks. We injected it.
She blocked out her entire leg starting in the fetlock area and going up above her stifle, and she was still lame all the way up. SO we really don't know what happened and are assuming it's something higher up, but don't have the equipment to look inside the hip/pelvic region. I don't even own a trailer and I've already been stretched to the limit with vet bills, I can't afford to drive her all over tarnation to maybe find something else out.
IN REGARDS TO THE LUNGING:
I appreciate your guys' concern, and I know lunging her in small circles is no bueno. But, since my vet is over an hour away, to keep her updated, I occasionally send her a video (per her request) to keep her updated on how the horses are doing. She advised NOT to turn her out in the pasture and keep her in one of the small runs through the winter. I let her loose in the indoor arena for a while at least a few times a week so she can roll and stretch her legs a little. She usually isn't a spazz and will wander around sniffing things or follow me around.
I'll have to ask her about the ovaries. I've had about 4 million suggestions thrown my way, so it's hard to keep straight. |
|
| |
|
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | MS2011 - 2014-01-02 11:38 AM I'm confused, is there a bunch of history on the mare that I'm missing since this post?....... Did you decide this vet's diagnosis was wrong? It's not spring yet, soft tissue injuries can take months to heal. Have you taken her in for follow up appts to see how her recovery is progressing? If the vet told you to keep her in a pen and rest her, you do understand that lunging her in small circles is going to set her recovery time back? You're doing nothing but irritating the original injury.
ETA 2013-11-01 was the date you posted this diagnosis. Hardly enough time for a soft tissue injury to heal.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the bb's that have been helpful and supportive while I've been going through this rough patch with Shimmer. Our GOOD vet was FINALLY in town and we've made some progress. The previous vet had said Shimmer had arthritis and was pretty much ready for the glue factory. Well this one looked at those x-rays and was like umm she has some arthritis in her hocks and her left stifle isn't great but the hocks wouldn't make her lame. She blocked her leg and then we injected her stifle, but she thinks there is some ligament damage somewhere above the stifle. So in short, Shimmer is not a lost cause. But the vet recommended she be put in a pen until spring to let her heal. And my super awesome barn owner said I can ride her personal horse while she is down south for the winter.
Well the entire thing has been a mess since June when I got her. But we really do NOT know what is wrong. My vet said it *may* be a ligament somewhere higher up in the hind end, but it's just a guess. We don't know. It's been over 7 months since there was first an issue and it has not improved in that time. I'm just trying to explore EVERY OPOTION because there's a big "what if" that should be addressed. I was perhaps a bit too optomistic in that post you have highlighted, I should have said she may not be a lost cause. Again, we just don't know. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | If she suspects stifle or hocks she would not have your lunge tight circles..I say turn her out in pasture for winter.. give her time to heal and rest and sonogram her ovaries as well. then spring find a new vet a good lameness one..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-01-02 6:05 PM
|
|
| |
|
Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | cavyrunsbarrels - 2014-01-02 5:56 PM MS2011 - 2014-01-02 11:38 AM I'm confused, is there a bunch of history on the mare that I'm missing since this post?....... Did you decide this vet's diagnosis was wrong? It's not spring yet, soft tissue injuries can take months to heal. Have you taken her in for follow up appts to see how her recovery is progressing? If the vet told you to keep her in a pen and rest her, you do understand that lunging her in small circles is going to set her recovery time back? You're doing nothing but irritating the original injury.
ETA 2013-11-01 was the date you posted this diagnosis. Hardly enough time for a soft tissue injury to heal.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the bb's that have been helpful and supportive while I've been going through this rough patch with Shimmer. Our GOOD vet was FINALLY in town and we've made some progress. The previous vet had said Shimmer had arthritis and was pretty much ready for the glue factory. Well this one looked at those x-rays and was like umm she has some arthritis in her hocks and her left stifle isn't great but the hocks wouldn't make her lame. She blocked her leg and then we injected her stifle, but she thinks there is some ligament damage somewhere above the stifle. So in short, Shimmer is not a lost cause. But the vet recommended she be put in a pen until spring to let her heal. And my super awesome barn owner said I can ride her personal horse while she is down south for the winter. Well the entire thing has been a mess since June when I got her. But we really do NOT know what is wrong. My vet said it *may* be a ligament somewhere higher up in the hind end, but it's just a guess. We don't know. It's been over 7 months since there was first an issue and it has not improved in that time. I'm just trying to explore EVERY OPOTION because there's a big "what if" that should be addressed. I was perhaps a bit too optomistic in that post you have highlighted, I should have said she may not be a lost cause. Again, we just don't know.
Totally missed my point. You stated that the vet said to rest her until spring, one month later you're giving up on this diagnosis and lunging in small circles.
Ligaments/tendon injuries are tough. Unfortunately, ive had more than myshare of experience rehabbing them. Strict rest is important.
If you want to knowwhat is wrong with her, for Pete's sake borrow a trailer and take her toan equine vet practice with the proper equipment.
|
|
| |
Folks on-line