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 Elite Veteran
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Location: Do I hear Banjos? | You said they did a culture and found Staph. Well...did they run a Sensitivity on the sample to see what that particular infection might be resistant and sensitive to as far as antibiotics? Bacteria can develop resistance and never truly clear from treatment with some antibiotics. Just because it's a "strong" antibiotic doesn't mean it's the right antibiotic for that infection. They may very well have run a sensitivity along with the culture...and should have. But you should ask to see.
Good luck. It's unfortunate and suspicious that the original owner isn't willing to answer any questions.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| Threecorners: I wish it was a guttural pouch infection so we could clear it up, but on both scopes the guttural pouches were clean.
They did run a sensitivity test on it and the only antibiotics that the Staph strain was sensitive to was penicillin and Naxcel. We did two rounds of Naxcel for 10 days. One round of a low dose, and one round of a high dose. Before we scoped him we just did two rounds of general SMZ treatment. The last thing we did was remove a molar-and after his molar was removed we did a round of Exceed which is a form of Naxcel. So our only other real option at this point is penicillin and they suggested 14 days of that. I really do not like using penicillin and they said that the Staph was slightly more sensitive to Naxcel. So if something was going to clear it up, it would have been Naxcel. The horse has basically been on antibiotics since October on and off. His body condition has decreased also. |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Antibiotics do kill the good gut bacteria so I'd hit him with a good probiotic to help with his body condition. Beside all that, I think I'd take him to a high end internal specialist or university to get to the root of the problem and get it cleared up once and for all. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| ThreeCorners - 2014-02-17 11:26 AM
Antibiotics do kill the good gut bacteria so I'd hit him with a good probiotic to help with his body condition. Beside all that, I think I'd take him to a high end internal specialist or university to get to the root of the problem and get it cleared up once and for all.
Thank you! Any recommendations of a good probiotic?
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | When I get home I will tell you about my experience last year! It took taking my mare to LSU to finally figure out the problem and we are still not sure what actually caused it! PM me if I forget! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| annemarea - 2014-02-17 11:37 AM
When I get home I will tell you about my experience last year! It took taking my mare to LSU to finally figure out the problem and we are still not sure what actually caused it! PM me if I forget!
I would love to hear about your experience! |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Last February my mare developed sinus drainage from one side only (left) and began doing strange things like holding her mouth agape. First vet told me to treat her with a round of SMZ's. It did nothing. We then did xrays and found no obvious issues with her teeth. I then left her for at least a week for sinus flushing/stronger antibiotics. She came back home with not real improvement. After several visits and several thousand in vet stays, sinus flushings, antibiotics, I chose to send her to Louisiana State University. We re-did xrays and again found nothing other than obvious fluid build up on left sinus cavity. The vet drilled a large hole into her sinus cavity and scoped finding really nasty stinky puralent material. As he got in deeper we discovered she had purelent material that had been in there so long (this was June/July and drainage started in February) that it had turned rock hard. He removed serveral pieces, but to ensure it was finally cleared completely, he would removed a flap of her bone covering the sinus cavity in order to completely clean her out. Basically her body was now seeing these hard pieces of puss as a foriegn body and so the infection was not going to clear until we completely removed it all. She stayed another week-two weeks with daily flushing and that finally cleared her up! It was a long long battle and she ended up having complications from the last surgery with re-occuring abscesses when a small bone chip was left behind. But, by December we had her on the mend.
I have a horse with allergies and this is what I can tell you was the difference between him and her. He never actually has discharge, but will cough and if scoped you will so some flem in his trach....if discharge is colored, thick, or stinky---- think INFECTION, not allergies. If discharge is only coming from ONE SIDE think INFECTION. Also, if this has been going on long term, don't forget about how rock hard some of that sinus pus had become inside of her sinus cavity. It had to be removed and that is why no amount of antibiotics was clearing her infection. My mare's discharge did smell on/off. If it smells, something is infected! You will know that smell! It is the smell of horrid breath! LOL I wish I would have taken my mare to the university in the first place because my local vet just did not have the instruments he needed in order to explore those tiny sinus folds. I basically wasted thousands and they sent her home still smelling like death and with drainage no better. So, my thoughts are possibly this started as a respiratory infection (both nostrils and trach drainage), but then something was left inside the left (still draining) nostril so that side will not clear up? Just something to think about.
I've had tons of typical respiratory infections and they all run their course and all involve both nostrils. This one was different because she was totally clear on that right side. No smell, no drainage, etc. You can try covering her good nostril and taking a whif of her breath on that left side. I really wonder if you would smell anything! Let me know if you have any other questions! Will be glad to help any way that I can!
Anne |
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Extreme Veteran
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| annemarea - 2014-02-17 5:53 PM
Last February my mare developed sinus drainage from one side only (left) and began doing strange things like holding her mouth agape. First vet told me to treat her with a round of SMZ's. It did nothing. We then did xrays and found no obvious issues with her teeth. I then left her for at least a week for sinus flushing/stronger antibiotics. She came back home with not real improvement. After several visits and several thousand in vet stays, sinus flushings, antibiotics, I chose to send her to Louisiana State University. We re-did xrays and again found nothing other than obvious fluid build up on left sinus cavity. The vet drilled a large hole into her sinus cavity and scoped finding really nasty stinky puralent material. As he got in deeper we discovered she had purelent material that had been in there so long (this was June/July and drainage started in February) that it had turned rock hard. He removed serveral pieces, but to ensure it was finally cleared completely, he would removed a flap of her bone covering the sinus cavity in order to completely clean her out. Basically her body was now seeing these hard pieces of puss as a foriegn body and so the infection was not going to clear until we completely removed it all. She stayed another week-two weeks with daily flushing and that finally cleared her up! It was a long long battle and she ended up having complications from the last surgery with re-occuring abscesses when a small bone chip was left behind. But, by December we had her on the mend.
I have a horse with allergies and this is what I can tell you was the difference between him and her. He never actually has discharge, but will cough and if scoped you will so some flem in his trach....if discharge is colored, thick, or stinky---- think INFECTION, not allergies. If discharge is only coming from ONE SIDE think INFECTION. Also, if this has been going on long term, don't forget about how rock hard some of that sinus pus had become inside of her sinus cavity. It had to be removed and that is why no amount of antibiotics was clearing her infection. My mare's discharge did smell on/off. If it smells, something is infected! You will know that smell! It is the smell of horrid breath! LOL I wish I would have taken my mare to the university in the first place because my local vet just did not have the instruments he needed in order to explore those tiny sinus folds. I basically wasted thousands and they sent her home still smelling like death and with drainage no better. So, my thoughts are possibly this started as a respiratory infection (both nostrils and trach drainage), but then something was left inside the left (still draining) nostril so that side will not clear up? Just something to think about.
I've had tons of typical respiratory infections and they all run their course and all involve both nostrils. This one was different because she was totally clear on that right side. No smell, no drainage, etc. You can try covering her good nostril and taking a whif of her breath on that left side. I really wonder if you would smell anything! Let me know if you have any other questions! Will be glad to help any way that I can!
Anne
Your case sounds so similar to mine! I really appreciate you taking the time to write your experience. They are not able to find anything super obvious with my horse on a scope/x-rays. They did remove a molar, but almost as a last resort sort of thing-I have some pictures from today that I will post. His drainage started out from both nostrils, it localized to just the left nostril after antibiotics. But you will see in the pictures I post that today it has returned to both nostrils.
We have spent thousands of dollars also, and I am just beyond discouraged. Did your horse swallow continuously? My horse swallows at least 5 times a minute.
His drainage doesn't smell is the only thing, it does not smell of infection. His discharge is a thick, milky, white.
Does anyone have any recommendations of a vet in North Carolina?? That can do a advanced scope or MRI? |
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| Blueridgedreaming - 2014-02-17 7:38 AM
RunNitroRun: He did indeed test positive for Staph, but after 3 serious treatments of antibiotics it came to the conclusion there must to be a primary reason for the infection being created such as: tooth root, cyst, Ect. That is what has left the vets scratching there heads.
CocoChex: How was the cyst diagnosed? Were they able to see it on x-rays or during a scope?
Thank you everyone so much!
They took a drill and drilled a hole above his sinus cavity then flushed through the hole. A lot of gunk came out. They then went in and surgically removed it
ETA: his gutteral pouch was good and also the cyst did NOT show up with the scope
Discharge was from one nostril
Also I noticed this shortly after I bought him, antibiotics would clear it up temporarily then it would come back.
Edited by CocoChex 2014-02-17 10:18 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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| CocoChex - 2014-02-17 8:01 PM
Blueridgedreaming - 2014-02-17 7:38 AM
RunNitroRun: He did indeed test positive for Staph, but after 3 serious treatments of antibiotics it came to the conclusion there must to be a primary reason for the infection being created such as: tooth root, cyst, Ect. That is what has left the vets scratching there heads.
CocoChex: How was the cyst diagnosed? Were they able to see it on x-rays or during a scope?
Thank you everyone so much!
They took a drill and drilled a hole above his sinus cavity then flushed through the hole. A lot of gunk came out. They then went in and surgically removed it
ETA: his gutteral pouch was good and also the cyst did NOT show up with the scope
Discharge was from one nostril
Also I noticed this shortly after I bought him, antibiotics would clear it up temporarily then it would come back.
Thank you Cocochex! |
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| Your vet does know that straph is naturally occurring in the nasal passages right? Pretty much every horse tested will come back positive. If it is a white (ish) discharge I am willing to bet it is IAD. (Inflammatory airway disease) get your vet to refer you to a respiratory specialist. They need to do a flush in the lungs. A respiratory specialist (or knowledgable equine vet) will tell you instantly what it is. A nasal swap will not. You have to do a scope right into the lungs. Mucus in both nostrils and trachea and a persistent or intermittent cough (depending on severity) are all signs of IAD. Especially if the horse is otherwise healthy. (My one horse coughed once in a blue moon, my other all the time)
Edited by Kaye 2014-02-18 5:01 PM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | id look at allergys .
But Id be concerned about a secondary infection in his lungs.. as well..
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| Kaye - 2014-02-18 4:59 PM
Your vet does know that straph is naturally occurring in the nasal passages right? Pretty much every horse tested will come back positive. If it is a white (ish) discharge I am willing to bet it is IAD. (Inflammatory airway disease) get your vet to refer you to a respiratory specialist. They need to do a flush in the lungs. A respiratory specialist (or knowledgable equine vet) will tell you instantly what it is. A nasal swap will not. You have to do a scope right into the lungs. Mucus in both nostrils and trachea and a persistent or intermittent cough (depending on severity) are all signs of IAD. Especially if the horse is otherwise healthy. (My one horse coughed once in a blue moon, my other all the time)
Thank you for all your great knowledge.
He didn't tell me that all horse would test positive for Staph, however I do know Staph is present everywhere. What the vet did say-whether this is significant or not-is that the Staph was present in the tissue sample he took from inside his nasal cavity. This vet is the go-to Equine vet in North Carolina and comes highly recommended, but is not a specialist for respiratory conditions.
The vets initial thought it was IAD, but after the scope and culture he ruled it out. The vet also did a lavage during the scope (did not do the lungs) and had it tested and he said there were not any cells that made him believe it was IAD.
Again, I am uncertain.
I really appreciate your time and advice! I think a specialist is in our near future.
Edited by Blueridgedreaming 2014-02-18 8:41 PM
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| Blueridgedreaming - 2014-02-18 7:23 PM Kaye - 2014-02-18 4:59 PM Your vet does know that straph is naturally occurring in the nasal passages right? Pretty much every horse tested will come back positive. If it is a white (ish) discharge I am willing to bet it is IAD. (Inflammatory airway disease) get your vet to refer you to a respiratory specialist. They need to do a flush in the lungs. A respiratory specialist (or knowledgable equine vet) will tell you instantly what it is. A nasal swap will not. You have to do a scope right into the lungs. Mucus in both nostrils and trachea and a persistent or intermittent cough (depending on severity) are all signs of IAD. Especially if the horse is otherwise healthy. (My one horse coughed once in a blue moon, my other all the time) Thank you for all your great knowledge. He didn't tell me that all horse would test positive for Staph, however I do know Staph is present everywhere. What the vet did say-whether this is significant or not-is that the Staph was present in the tissue sample he took from inside his nasal cavity. He just said he had some "super bugs" we were dealing with. This vet is the go-to Equine vet in North Carolina and comes highly recommended, however have doesn't have all the capabilities as State hospitals or some Equine hospitals. The vets initial thought it was IAD, but after the scope and culture he ruled it out. The vet also did a lavage during the scope (did not do the lungs ) and had it tested and he said there were not any cells that made him believe it was IAD. Again, I am uncertain. I really appreciate your time and advice! I think a specialist is in our near future.
Well if he did rule out IAD then you have a mystery. I had a mare here that got a bug and after she kept getting on and off nasal discharge. I got it cultured and it came back as normal nasal flora (just high amounts), my local vet said I could use Naxcel, but though possibly time might help more. Since she was young and i didn't want to stress her body with drugs (yet). I tried an immunostimulant on her. It took three consecutive shots (following the label directions) and after that it cleared up and never came back. Now maybe she just needed time to fully recover or maybe it was the stimulant, but her nasal discharged cleared right up after. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| Kaye - 2014-02-18 8:41 PM
Blueridgedreaming - 2014-02-18 7:23 PM Kaye - 2014-02-18 4:59 PM Your vet does know that straph is naturally occurring in the nasal passages right? Pretty much every horse tested will come back positive. If it is a white (ish) discharge I am willing to bet it is IAD. (Inflammatory airway disease) get your vet to refer you to a respiratory specialist. They need to do a flush in the lungs. A respiratory specialist (or knowledgable equine vet) will tell you instantly what it is. A nasal swap will not. You have to do a scope right into the lungs. Mucus in both nostrils and trachea and a persistent or intermittent cough (depending on severity) are all signs of IAD. Especially if the horse is otherwise healthy. (My one horse coughed once in a blue moon, my other all the time) Thank you for all your great knowledge. He didn't tell me that all horse would test positive for Staph, however I do know Staph is present everywhere. What the vet did say-whether this is significant or not-is that the Staph was present in the tissue sample he took from inside his nasal cavity. He just said he had some "super bugs" we were dealing with. This vet is the go-to Equine vet in North Carolina and comes highly recommended, however have doesn't have all the capabilities as State hospitals or some Equine hospitals. The vets initial thought it was IAD, but after the scope and culture he ruled it out. The vet also did a lavage during the scope (did not do the lungs ) and had it tested and he said there were not any cells that made him believe it was IAD. Again, I am uncertain. I really appreciate your time and advice! I think a specialist is in our near future.
He ruled out IAD based on a tracheal wash, however as I was reading more about IAD, studies are saying that a tracheal wash is insufficient. It takes a bronchial wash to diagnose.
Thanks again for your advice!
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