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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
   
Location: Dubach, LA | r_beau - 2015-04-29 10:13 AM CanCan - 2015-04-29 9:53 AM I'm with you BMW. I think it's gotten outrageous. Office fees, late fees, tie out fees, stall fees, hook up fees, fees per day instead of per show. Entry fees and exhibition fees and all other fees keep going up and up and up. Producers that charge a fee to run for average prizes when the prizes were DONATED. In my area, you will pay a $25 entry and $10 sign up with only 70-80% going to the pay out pot for a $250 added money, a $500 added money, or $1000 added money. Never met a producer yet that says he/she was making money! Hand over fist money. They are well into the black before the race even starts when they sell a couple hundred exhibitions for 4 bucks each. Around here, labor is donated for exhibitions or small club donations. Of course they are making money! Shoot. That's the only job some of them have. It's also one of the very few drawbacks of the D system. It's attracted tons and tons of folk who can pay anything to compete for prizes just to say they won something. It's like a mini vacay twice a month for those people. Money doesn't matter. And you know this all for FACT?
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Maybe there wasn't enough sponsorship money for some of them and the producer footed the rest of the bill to still have equal prizes for all the D's.
How do you know the facility rental isn't per hour? Or what it costs to begin with? So those "couple hundred" exhibitions cost the producer more in rental fees to have the facility longer for those exhibitions, if it's charged by the hour.
And there's a problem with winning prizes for having a 3D run? I'm sorry, but not every horse is capable of winning the 1D and even so, it takes them time and experience to get there, working their way up. If you don't like the D system and don't want the lower D's to win anything, then you should probably stick to rodeos.
Sounds like you have had a sour experience in the past that has really made you negative. Be thankful there ARE barrel races near you that you can attend. If you don't like how they are run, and you don't want to put on your own, then I guess you'll have to stay home. Honestly, I have no problem if our producers around here take a little $$ home for themselves. They spend a lot of time to organize the races and I am thankful that they do, so I have barrel races to go to!
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Because the sponsor that donated is named in advertisements.
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Anyone can call and check rates. In fact, the rates for indoors are pretty well known.
I don't run 1D. Just making observations. I guess if you weren't running before the Ds it's not explainable! The Ds brought around more good than bad but there is a whole different type of person at shows. I don't go often. I'm broke now and raising grandkids but when I was making good money and had the time, I still said the same thing.
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 A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | If there is added money, I don't mind the 30%, but it just depends on the race. | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | CanCan - 2015-04-29 11:53 AM How do you know all the prizes were donated? Because the sponsor that donated is named in advertisements.
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Anyone can call and check rates. In fact, the rates for indoors are pretty well known.
I don't run 1D. Just making observations. I guess if you weren't running before the Ds it's not explainable! The Ds brought around more good than bad but there is a whole different type of person at shows. I don't go often. I'm broke now and raising grandkids but when I was making good money and had the time, I still said the same thing.
Just because a vendor's name is listed next to the prize does NOT mean they sponsored the entire prize.
For example, our local NBHA district is going to do Double J saddles for year-end awards for each division. My business is sponsoring a monetary amount for 1/2 a saddle. She has not ordered the saddles yet and it's possible they are going to cost more than what she's getting for sponsorship money. If so, she's not going to call me and ask for more money. She's just going to take care of it. So YES the producer may still be eating some of the bill for prizes, even though they have a sponsor name next to them.
I also am on the board of directors for a local saddle club. We try to get as many sponsors as we can, but every year we are in the hole for the prizes we awarded and the sponsorship money we had. Yet, of course, we do still list the sponsor name next to the prize, even if the saddle club had to pick up part of the cost.
You are making an awful lot of accusations and assumptoms for things you do not know to be FACT.
You also do not know what they are paying for insurance, what they are paying the announcer, what they are paying to have the tractor there, etc. So those "couple hundred exhibitions" may be covering all those added expenses.
I'm not saying it's impossible that they make money on a barrel race. They might; who knows. I'm just saying that they might not be. And if you are so angry about it, then step up and offer to help the producer put on the barrel race so you can truly see what's going on behind the scene, instead of just assuming you think you know.
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| CanCan - 2015-04-29 11:53 AM r_beau - 2015-04-29 10:13 AM CanCan - 2015-04-29 9:53 AM I'm with you BMW. I think it's gotten outrageous. Office fees, late fees, tie out fees, stall fees, hook up fees, fees per day instead of per show. Entry fees and exhibition fees and all other fees keep going up and up and up. Producers that charge a fee to run for average prizes when the prizes were DONATED. In my area, you will pay a $25 entry and $10 sign up with only 70-80% going to the pay out pot for a $250 added money, a $500 added money, or $1000 added money. Never met a producer yet that says he/she was making money! Hand over fist money. They are well into the black before the race even starts when they sell a couple hundred exhibitions for 4 bucks each. Around here, labor is donated for exhibitions or small club donations. Of course they are making money! Shoot. That's the only job some of them have. It's also one of the very few drawbacks of the D system. It's attracted tons and tons of folk who can pay anything to compete for prizes just to say they won something. It's like a mini vacay twice a month for those people. Money doesn't matter. And you know this all for FACT?
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Maybe there wasn't enough sponsorship money for some of them and the producer footed the rest of the bill to still have equal prizes for all the D's.
How do you know the facility rental isn't per hour? Or what it costs to begin with? So those "couple hundred" exhibitions cost the producer more in rental fees to have the facility longer for those exhibitions, if it's charged by the hour.
And there's a problem with winning prizes for having a 3D run? I'm sorry, but not every horse is capable of winning the 1D and even so, it takes them time and experience to get there, working their way up. If you don't like the D system and don't want the lower D's to win anything, then you should probably stick to rodeos.
Sounds like you have had a sour experience in the past that has really made you negative. Be thankful there ARE barrel races near you that you can attend. If you don't like how they are run, and you don't want to put on your own, then I guess you'll have to stay home. Honestly, I have no problem if our producers around here take a little $$ home for themselves. They spend a lot of time to organize the races and I am thankful that they do, so I have barrel races to go to!
Because the sponsor that donated is named in advertisements.
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Anyone can call and check rates. In fact, the rates for indoors are pretty well known.
I don't run 1D. Just making observations. I guess if you weren't running before the Ds it's not explainable! The Ds brought around more good than bad but th ere is a whole different type of person at shows. I don't go often. I'm broke now and raising grandkids but when I was making good money and had the time, I still said the same thing.
I am curious to why this other type of person is a bad thing? | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | To anyone that thinks putting on a first class barrel race is easy and you can make a ton of money..go do it and come back and let us know how it worked out for you. LOL
I find it beyond ridiculous with posts like this. I hope all the producers are making money so they will continue to put them on. Why do you make producers out as evil people because they make a profit? Why would they put on a barrel race if they didn't?
The cost of putting on barrel race has become undoable for a smaller organization unless they can get their arena for free. An indoor arena by us, that use to charge $500.00 for 2 arenas is now over $1500.00 for one arena per day.
If it wasn't for exhibitions, most producers would go in the hole.
No one owes anyone a barrel race. If you don't like the fees, don't go.
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 356
| Nevertooold - 2015-04-29 3:35 PM To anyone that thinks putting on a first class barrel race is easy and you can make a ton of money..go do it and come back and let us know how it worked out for you. LOL
I find it beyond ridiculous with posts like this. I hope all the producers are making money so they will continue to put them on. Why do you make producers out as evil people because they make a profit? Why would they put on a barrel race if they didn't?
The cost of putting on barrel race has become undoable for a smaller organization unless they can get their arena for free. An indoor arena by us, that use to charge $500.00 for 2 arenas is now over $1500.00 for one arena per day.
If it wasn't for exhibitions, most producers would go in the hole.
No one owes anyone a barrel race. If you don't like the fees, don't go.
^^^This!!! Why is it so wrong for people to make money? Would you go to work if they didn't pay you?
Granted, I'm sure there are some producers out there that do go overboard with their fees, and there are certain types of fees I don't always agree with. However, the idea that a producer shouldn't be making any sort of a profit off the time he or she put into putting that barrel race on is absolutely ridiculous. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| Kudos to those of you who keep their takeout at 20/25%! I do not attend the races that hold out 30%. I just attended a fund raiser barrel race that took out 25%, had an attendance fee of $6.00 and had $750.00 added money. The fees charged at a race determine where I go and spend my money. | |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
Location: Dubach, LA | I think it's great that people produce races. Not all of us can. It just gets old listening to the producers whine about how they aren't making money. If they didn't make money, they wouldn't produce big runs 3 or 4 times a year. It's okay to make money. Geez. | |
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 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | There's a jackpot series here that's doing 57% payout..... I'm not happy about 57% payout but I'll go because it's pretty close. I'd love an 80% payout. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | Then again....last weekend around there was a race that gave away a saddle, buckles and paid the top 6 spots in each D....entry fee $0. Ya'LL should have been there. | |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | I'm putting on a Bonus Race Finals series next month at our local saddle club arena. I will not be making a dime unless I win money in the jackpot because I'm organizing it as a saddle club member so the club keeps any profit.
We're charging $3 for exhibitions, $4 office charge, $4 for pee wees, $15 for youth 3D and $25 for open 4D. $19 of the open entry fee (76%) will be paid back. The club is keeping $6 to cover expenses - tractor gas and electricity - and $1 of that goes to the Bonus Race Finals. Payout is 75% in pee wees and I'm going to make sure each kid gets $1 back. Youth class will be 80% payout ($10 of $15 goes in payoff). I did odd percentages to make even dollars in the payoff and ease the load on my volunteer office staff. I figure that the cheap exhibitions and office charge should offset any complaints about taking too much money out of the entry fees. Around here, most of the people are happy to have somewhere to go during the week.
As a contestant, I try to figure roughly what it will pay to win each D at a race I'm considering attending. Then I compare that to the entry fees and weigh how high I have to place & how lucky I have to get to break even. All of that weighs into my decision to go or not to go. If asked, I will state my reasons for going or not going to a specific race, but I'm not going to badmouth anyone who is willing to organize and produce a barrel race. It's a pain and I appreciate everyone who tackles it. | |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | I firmly believe everyone should have to produce a barrel race at least once before they get to complain. We're very fortunate - almost all the races in our area hold out 20-25%. I find this very reasonable. The only thing that irks me is more than a $10 late fee. Do you really expect a producer to work for free?
Thankfully - where I live, if I don't like the fees (or the rules) I don't go....there's lots of other options.
Edited by MS2011 2015-04-30 9:21 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| No one expects a producer to work for free! But for people to say everyone should just be grateful for SOMEWHERE to run is insane. Soon we will be running for 50% of our entry fees with 3 or 4 tack on fees to boot. Come on, I am very thankful for good producers but I don't feel like they are doing me a "favor" by putting on an event. They chose to put on events, it is hard work and costs money, they know that going into it. Also, I don't bash any one or any event, if I don't like it I just don't go. There is not need for hard feelings either way, either go or don't go....Put on an event or don't....Pretty simple | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| MeepMeep - 2015-04-30 7:25 AM
No one expects a producer to work for free! But for people to say everyone should just be grateful for SOMEWHERE to run is insane. Soon we will be running for 50% of our entry fees with 3 or 4 tack on fees to boot. Come on, I am very thankful for good producers but I don't feel like they are doing me a "favor" by putting on an event. They chose to put on events, it is hard work and costs money, they know that going into it. Also, I don't bash any one or any event, if I don't like it I just don't go. There is not need for hard feelings either way, either go or don't go....Put on an event or don't....Pretty simple
SO what would happen if all the producers STOPPED putting on races? Where would you run? | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1580
Location: Down South | Nevertooold - 2015-04-29 3:35 PM To anyone that thinks putting on a first class barrel race is easy and you can make a ton of money..go do it and come back and let us know how it worked out for you. LOL
I find it beyond ridiculous with posts like this. I hope all the producers are making money so they will continue to put them on. Why do you make producers out as evil people because they make a profit? Why would they put on a barrel race if they didn't?
The cost of putting on barrel race has become undoable for a smaller organization unless they can get their arena for free. An indoor arena by us, that use to charge $500.00 for 2 arenas is now over $1500.00 for one arena per day.
If it wasn't for exhibitions, most producers would go in the hole.
No one owes anyone a barrel race. If you don't like the fees, don't go.
Truth.!! I'm not in it to get rich, because if anybody thinks they can by producing events please let me know how.  With that being said though, I also don't want to work/produce one of my personal shows and not make a little money when it's all said and done. Do you like working for FREE.?
Edited by miss turbo 2015-04-30 9:48 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| FLITASTIC - 2015-04-30 9:46 AM
MeepMeep - 2015-04-30 7:25 AM
No one expects a producer to work for free! But for people to say everyone should just be grateful for SOMEWHERE to run is insane. Soon we will be running for 50% of our entry fees with 3 or 4 tack on fees to boot. Come on, I am very thankful for good producers but I don't feel like they are doing me a "favor" by putting on an event. They chose to put on events, it is hard work and costs money, they know that going into it. Also, I don't bash any one or any event, if I don't like it I just don't go. There is not need for hard feelings either way, either go or don't go....Put on an event or don't....Pretty simple
SO what would happen if all the producers STOPPED putting on races? Where would you run?
At home | |
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