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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
    
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I'm thrilled to see how grownup the Dems are acting on this. Just proves how mentally deranged they are. How can anyone vote for these people?
We could get this fixed right away if Congress was put on the same Healthcare that the rest of us are on. Still remember Pelosi's smart ass comment about the healthcare plan her and her buddies have. Why are they special and the rest of us dog crap?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/house-democrats-sing-goodbye-to-republicans-as-health-care-bill-passes/2017/05/04/6278208a-30f7-11e7-a335-fa0ae1940305_video.html
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Until and unless at least 75% of citizens are forced to realize they actually have skin in the game, we will have two choices: 1.) Single payer, or 2.) Continued unhindered skyrocketing insurance costs at an exponential rate. I can promise you, based upon personal experience, Americans will not be happy with single payer. The best way to guarantee the lowest possible cost while preserving quality is to unleash the power of free market capitalism. With a few rare exceptions in a few niches, we don't have anything remotely approaching a robust, competitive, free-market capitalist system in healthcare. I have not gone through the effort to really look hard at what congress just passed, simply because it will likely end up vastly different when, or even IF it is actually signed into law. Right now, I'm not at all excited, or even remotely optimistic. The effect of "firing up" the base, to my way of thinking, is no different than getting my mare to relax before a barrel race by scratching between her tits. I'm pretty sure the feckless CBO will not "score" this "ObamaCare - like" law much better than the last one.
The biggest problem any reform proposals will have to hurdle is the fact that the government, through ObamaCare, has already fed the stray dog. Now, we are stuck with it. People are going to revolt if their freebies are taken away......even though the freebies are not free. | |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Bear - 2017-05-06 11:46 AM Until and unless at least 75% of citizens are forced to realize they actually have skin in the game, we will have two choices: 1.) Single payer, or 2.) Continued unhindered skyrocketing insurance costs at an exponential rate. I can promise you, based upon personal experience, Americans will not be happy with single payer. The best way to guarantee the lowest possible cost while preserving quality is to unleash the power of free market capitalism. With a few rare exceptions in a few niches, we don't have anything remotely approaching a robust, competitive, free-market capitalist system in healthcare. I have not gone through the effort to really look hard at what congress just passed, simply because it will likely end up vastly different when, or even IF it is actually signed into law. Right now, I'm not at all excited, or even remotely optimistic. The effect of "firing up" the base, to my way of thinking, is no different than getting my mare to relax before a barrel race by scratching between her tits. I'm pretty sure the feckless CBO will not "score" this "ObamaCare - like" law much better than the last one. The biggest problem any reform proposals will have to hurdle is the fact that the government, through ObamaCare, has already fed the stray dog. Now, we are stuck with it. People are going to revolt if their freebies are taken away......even though the freebies are not free.
Scott, can you briefly explain how a single-payer system works? My other question is, as a physician, are you required to accept whatever law is enacted? Are you still free to walk away, choosing how to be paid and by whom? | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | RidenFly - 2017-05-05 1:57 PM
Bear - 2017-05-06 11:46 AM Until and unless at least 75% of citizens are forced to realize they actually have skin in the game, we will have two choices: 1.) Single payer, or 2.) Continued unhindered skyrocketing insurance costs at an exponential rate. I can promise you, based upon personal experience, Americans will not be happy with single payer. The best way to guarantee the lowest possible cost while preserving quality is to unleash the power of free market capitalism. With a few rare exceptions in a few niches, we don't have anything remotely approaching a robust, competitive, free-market capitalist system in healthcare. I have not gone through the effort to really look hard at what congress just passed, simply because it will likely end up vastly different when, or even IF it is actually signed into law. Right now, I'm not at all excited, or even remotely optimistic. The effect of "firing up" the base, to my way of thinking, is no different than getting my mare to relax before a barrel race by scratching between her tits. I'm pretty sure the feckless CBO will not "score" this "ObamaCare - like" law much better than the last one. The biggest problem any reform proposals will have to hurdle is the fact that the government, through ObamaCare, has already fed the stray dog. Now, we are stuck with it. People are going to revolt if their freebies are taken away......even though the freebies are not free.
Scott, can you briefly explain how a single-payer system works? My other question is, as a physician, are you required to accept whatever law is enacted? Are you still free to walk away, choosing how to be paid and by whom?
This gives a nice description of "single payer", and it also defines two other broad categories: two-tier, and insurance mandate.....our current system.
I worked in the British NHS for a year, and that is single payer. Basically the healthcare is paid for through taxation on the citizens.
The government employs the healthcare workers and runs the hospitals.
Currently, here in the U.S., doctors are not forced to provide care to Medicare or Medicaid patients. In fact, there is increasing interest in things like "concierge medicine" or cash only clinics and surgery centers. One private, cash only, same day surgery center in Oklahoma recently gained national attention for their success. Basically, people paid a single upfront fee for surgical operations. The services provided were all-inclusive.....pre op, anesthesia, surgeons, post op meds, etc... For instance, the bottom line cost for a certain ENT operation was $5500. The cost for the same operation at a large university medical center ran over $30,000 using conventional insurance, etc..... Now for someone who has say a $6000 annual deductible policy, the difference is not that great ($500) for the patient, because the insurer was stuck with the remaining $24,000......in other words they were "covered", so who gives a sh!t?
Well, therein lies the problem. We all ought to give a sh!t. In the end, we all pay. We are all in the same kettle of water on the stovetop slowly heating up to a final boiling point. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Oops....forgot the link:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-single-payer-tw... | |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | If we are going to have national health care in the United States it has to be single payer to be sustainable. Medicare is single payer. Just try to take Medicare away from people and see how much they hate single payer.
If someone is against single payer, fine. Then be against national health care. We do not have a healthcare problem in the United States. We have an insurance problem. When you get the insurance companies involved you ednd up with the mess of what's called Obamacare.
They should have learned that from privatizing Medicare with the MMA of 2003 that gave us the influx of the current Medicare Advantage system and the implimentation of Part D Rx coverage. It took until 2006 for the MMA of 2003 to be implemented. Here we are 11 years later and it costs taxpayers 15% more for Medicare Advantage than oriiginal Medicare. Medicare Advantage and Part D Rx coverage can only be bought from private carriers. They sold congress a bill of goods with the MMA that they could could do a better job of managing healthcare for Medicare eligibles than could the government. No they can't. Or, I should say, they won't.
Medicaid is awhole different story. And it's really Mediciad people that catch the ire of the taxpaying public. And in many cases rightfully so. People just tend to lump Medicare/Mediciad together. Even people on one or the other get it mixed up.
Almost everyday someone will tell me they are on Medicare when they are on Mediciad or vice versa. When I correct them they say, "same thing". They are not the same thing. Now, some people are actually on both.
Medicare is federal. Medicaid is state. Income has nothing to do with Medicare eligible. Income has everything to do with Mediciad eliglbe.
As for this repeal of Obamacare, it's all for show. With certainty the bill passed by the house will never get passed by the senate. Doubtful they pass anything at all. But whatever they do it will be unrecognizable to what the house did yesterday. | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| jd&ez - 2017-05-05 4:26 PM
If we are going to have national health care in the United States it has to be single payer to be sustainable. Medicare is single payer. Just try to take Medicare away from people and see how much they hate single payer.
If someone is against single payer, fine. Then be against national health care. We do not have a healthcare problem in the United States. We have an insurance problem. When you get the insurance companies involved you ednd up with the mess of what's called Obamacare.
They should have learned that from privatizing Medicare with the MMA of 2003 that gave us the influx of the current Medicare Advantage system and the implimentation of Part D Rx coverage. It took until 2006 for the MMA of 2003 to be implemented. Here we are 11 years later and it costs taxpayers 15% more for Medicare Advantage than oriiginal Medicare. Medicare Advantage and Part D Rx coverage can only be bought from private carriers. They sold congress a bill of goods with the MMA that they could could do a better job of managing healthcare for Medicare eligibles than could the government. No they can't. Or, I should say, they won't.
Medicaid is awhole different story. And it's really Mediciad people that catch the ire of the taxpaying public. And in many cases rightfully so. People just tend to lump Medicare/Mediciad together. Even people on one or the other get it mixed up.
Almost everyday someone will tell me they are on Medicare when they are on Mediciad or vice versa. When I correct them they say, "same thing". They are not the same thing. Now, some people are actually on both.
Medicare is federal. Medicaid is state. Income has nothing to do with Medicare eligible. Income has everything to do with Mediciad eliglbe.
As for this repeal of Obamacare, it's all for show. With certainty the bill passed by the house will never get passed by the senate. Doubtful they pass anything at all. But whatever they do it will be unrecognizable to what the house did yesterday.
Many of us ARE against National healthcare. The government has NO business in my medical decisions and healthcare is not a "right". People need to take personal responsibility in their medical decisions and need to have "skin in the game" to make responsible ones.
All this noise about controlling the cost of healthcare, whether Obamacare or Trumpcare is just that, noise. They are addressing the cost of insurance alone and totally over looking the COST of healthcare. As long as insurance picks up the bulk of the cost, most people don't care what the actual cost is (something Bear pointed out). Why, if I pay for something out of pocket, does it cost me many times over what the same docs and hospitals will settle for from the insurance companies?? Because they have high paid lobbyists and the power of numbers on their side. We have no one. It is supposed to be the politicians on our side, but they as a group, have not been on our side in decades. There are many pieces to this puzzle and insurance is but one piece. I would much rather see them take their time and come up with a decent, workable solution rather than try to jamb something down our throats like the Dems did. I am beyond piffed at the GOP for not having come up with a workable solutions after all these years. It was easy to"fight', trying to get Obamacare repealed when they knew the POTUS would veto any such Bill. I will say it again. The Dems and GOP are two sides of the same coin. It's all a shell game.
Also Medicare ain't all that great. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find doctors who will accept Medicare because the renumeration to the Doc in very low. How good is an insurance if no one will accept it? Right now those that do accept it can do that because they make their money off the rest of us. If you take THAT away through a single payer system, where is the incentive to becoming a doctor in the first place?
Show me ONE government run system that is efficient, economical and not riddled with corruption...... they may start out with good intentions and management but they never stay that way. If we want a glimpse into Nationalized, one payer system take a peek at the VA.
Edited by rodeoveteran 2017-05-07 10:57 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| rodeoveteran - 2017-05-07 10:54 AM
jd&ez - 2017-05-05 4:26 PM
If we are going to have national health care in the United States it has to be single payer to be sustainable. Medicare is single payer. Just try to take Medicare away from people and see how much they hate single payer.
If someone is against single payer, fine. Then be against national health care. We do not have a healthcare problem in the United States. We have an insurance problem. When you get the insurance companies involved you ednd up with the mess of what's called Obamacare.
They should have learned that from privatizing Medicare with the MMA of 2003 that gave us the influx of the current Medicare Advantage system and the implimentation of Part D Rx coverage. It took until 2006 for the MMA of 2003 to be implemented. Here we are 11 years later and it costs taxpayers 15% more for Medicare Advantage than oriiginal Medicare. Medicare Advantage and Part D Rx coverage can only be bought from private carriers. They sold congress a bill of goods with the MMA that they could could do a better job of managing healthcare for Medicare eligibles than could the government. No they can't. Or, I should say, they won't.
Medicaid is awhole different story. And it's really Mediciad people that catch the ire of the taxpaying public. And in many cases rightfully so. People just tend to lump Medicare/Mediciad together. Even people on one or the other get it mixed up.
Almost everyday someone will tell me they are on Medicare when they are on Mediciad or vice versa. When I correct them they say, "same thing". They are not the same thing. Now, some people are actually on both.
Medicare is federal. Medicaid is state. Income has nothing to do with Medicare eligible. Income has everything to do with Mediciad eliglbe.
As for this repeal of Obamacare, it's all for show. With certainty the bill passed by the house will never get passed by the senate. Doubtful they pass anything at all. But whatever they do it will be unrecognizable to what the house did yesterday.
Many of us ARE against National healthcare. The government has NO business in my medical decisions and healthcare is not a "right". People need to take personal responsibility in their medical decisions and need to have "skin in the game" to make responsible ones.
All this noise about controlling the cost of healthcare, whether Obamacare or Trumpcare is just that, noise. They are addressing the cost of insurance alone and totally over looking the COST of healthcare. As long as insurance picks up the bulk of the cost, most people don't care what the actual cost is (something Bear pointed out ). Why, if I pay for something out of pocket, does it cost me many times over what the same docs and hospitals will settle for from the insurance companies?? Because they have high paid lobbyists and the power of numbers on their side. We have no one. It is supposed to be the politicians on our side, but they as a group, have not been on our side in decades. There are many pieces to this puzzle and insurance is but one piece. I would much rather see them take their time and come up with a decent, workable solution rather than try to jamb something down our throats like the Dems did. I am beyond piffed at the GOP for not having come up with a workable solutions after all these years. It was easy to"fight', trying to get Obamacare repealed when they knew the POTUS would veto any such Bill. I will say it again. The Dems and GOP are two sides of the same coin. It's all a shell game.
Also Medicare ain't all that great. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find doctors who will accept Medicare because the renumeration to the Doc in very low. How good is an insurance if no one will accept it? Right now those that do accept it can do that because they make their money off the rest of us. If you take THAT away through a single payer system, where is the incentive to becoming a doctor in the first place?
Show me ONE government run system that is efficient, economical and not riddled with corruption...... they may start out with good intentions and management but they never stay that way. If we want a glimpse into Nationalized, one payer system take a peek at the VA.
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Sometimes it would be nice to turn back time. I was born in 1950 and am the 3rd oldest of 8. My parents were below middle class and they never had health insurance and they paid for the birth of each of child, paid for all broken bones, an extended care in the hospital for my younger brother etc. Every year we all went to the dentist. They made payments for it...but they paid for it. The first time I had health insurance is after I got married and my husband became a policeman. His job took care of his insurance and he paid for mine and eventually family insurance. The insurance was affordable and top notch. It seemed that we paid the same monthly premium for years and years. When he retired 20 years ago, his job continued to pay for his insurance and we paid my part. They automatically took it out of his pension. I remember my part being about $239.00 a month with a $250.00 deductible. I never paid co-pays at our doctors once the $250.00 deductible was paid. We did have a 80/20 hospital but it was never not affordable to pay the 20% as the charges were not obscene like they are today.
As long as I've been alive...people with life threatning illness or injuries have never been turned away at an ER. People have never been left dying in the streets, a real lie libs love repeating over and over.
People ruin everything they touch and liberals have that special touch that speed up the process.
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | In reality....Does anyone think this bill is going to get passed in the Senate? I don't. This bill just sucks a little less then ObamaCare. We need a real healthcare bill...not this patch and go crap. How do you continue to fix a 2,700 page POS? It needs to implode, like it was designed to do in the begginning, but instead of single payer, a real healthcare bill. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Idaho | I pray that this bill will not get passed through Senate.
For the ones that are so proud that this new health care plan is being passed, are you aware that on that bill it states that if you are RAPED or have been/are in an domestic violence relationship.. that they will be considered pre existing conditions and people can be denied health care for that? I think it is disgusting that anyone would ever put that on a bill and I pray the Senate will shut it down the second it comes through the doors.
This is America, we need to do better to take care of our own. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| DashNDustem - 2017-05-07 6:08 PM
I pray that this bill will not get passed through Senate.
For the ones that are so proud that this new health care plan is being passed, are you aware that on that bill it states that if you are RAPED or have been/are in an domestic violence relationship.. that they will be considered pre existing conditions and people can be denied health care for that? I think it is disgusting that anyone would ever put that on a bill and I pray the Senate will shut it down the second it comes through the doors.
This is America, we need to do better to take care of our own.
This is absolutely not true. While I am not a fan of this bill, that is bs to the max put out by the democrats. Article from NBC news:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/acha-pre-existing-conditions-rape-pregn...
What the bill does is allow for higher rates for or existing conditions if YOU LET YOUR INSURANCE LAPSE. They don't charge higher rates from the get go. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | rodeomom3 - 2017-05-07 6:24 PM DashNDustem - 2017-05-07 6:08 PM I pray that this bill will not get passed through Senate. For the ones that are so proud that this new health care plan is being passed, are you aware that on that bill it states that if you are RAPED or have been/are in an domestic violence relationship.. that they will be considered pre existing conditions and people can be denied health care for that? I think it is disgusting that anyone would ever put that on a bill and I pray the Senate will shut it down the second it comes through the doors. This is America, we need to do better to take care of our own. This is absolutely not true. While I am not a fan of this bill, that is bs to the max put out by the democrats. Article from NBC news: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/acha-pre-existing-conditions-rape-pregn... What the bill does is allow for higher rates for or existing conditions if YOU LET YOUR INSURANCE LAPSE. They don't charge higher rates from the get go.
The problem with that is ..... that only works with the company that insures you .....IF you should happen to want to change jobs (and insurance company), they are required to insure you but "may" be at a much higher rate. That being said, I don't know about the language about rape or domestic violence but I sure as heck wouldn't consider that a "pre-existing" condition.
I think everybody is putting the cart before the horse....MANY Republicans have come out and said that this bill will not pass in the Senate..... | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| NJJ - 2017-05-07 6:33 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-05-07 6:24 PM DashNDustem - 2017-05-07 6:08 PM I pray that this bill will not get passed through Senate. For the ones that are so proud that this new health care plan is being passed, are you aware that on that bill it states that if you are RAPED or have been/are in an domestic violence relationship.. that they will be considered pre existing conditions and people can be denied health care for that? I think it is disgusting that anyone would ever put that on a bill and I pray the Senate will shut it down the second it comes through the doors. This is America, we need to do better to take care of our own. This is absolutely not true. While I am not a fan of this bill, that is bs to the max put out by the democrats. Article from NBC news: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/acha-pre-existing-conditions-rape-pregn... What the bill does is allow for higher rates for or existing conditions if YOU LET YOUR INSURANCE LAPSE. They don't charge higher rates from the get go.
I think everybody is putting the cart before the horse....MANY Republicans have come out and said that this bill will not pass in the Senate.....
Agree, but nowhere does it say rape or a car crash is a pre existing condition. People need to educate themselves instead of taking the scare tactic headlines at face value - for both sides of the aisle. There is plenty to not like without this BS thrown out there. | |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | rodeomom3 - 2017-05-07 6:41 PM NJJ - 2017-05-07 6:33 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-05-07 6:24 PM DashNDustem - 2017-05-07 6:08 PM I pray that this bill will not get passed through Senate. For the ones that are so proud that this new health care plan is being passed, are you aware that on that bill it states that if you are RAPED or have been/are in an domestic violence relationship.. that they will be considered pre existing conditions and people can be denied health care for that? I think it is disgusting that anyone would ever put that on a bill and I pray the Senate will shut it down the second it comes through the doors. This is America, we need to do better to take care of our own. This is absolutely not true. While I am not a fan of this bill, that is bs to the max put out by the democrats. Article from NBC news: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/acha-pre-existing-conditions-rape-pregn... What the bill does is allow for higher rates for or existing conditions if YOU LET YOUR INSURANCE LAPSE. They don't charge higher rates from the get go.
I think everybody is putting the cart before the horse....MANY Republicans have come out and said that this bill will not pass in the Senate.....
That is a liberal speciality to make up lies and keep repeating them. They have done this for years and they are quite proud of the results. Some call it politics and I call it BS. May all that have done this burn in Hell. It's time all of our politicians start to worry about this country and it's people rather then their special interests and padding their own pockets. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Idaho | Nevertooold - 2017-05-08 6:12 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-05-07 6:41 PM NJJ - 2017-05-07 6:33 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-05-07 6:24 PM DashNDustem - 2017-05-07 6:08 PM I pray that this bill will not get passed through Senate. For the ones that are so proud that this new health care plan is being passed, are you aware that on that bill it states that if you are RAPED or have been/are in an domestic violence relationship.. that they will be considered pre existing conditions and people can be denied health care for that? I think it is disgusting that anyone would ever put that on a bill and I pray the Senate will shut it down the second it comes through the doors. This is America, we need to do better to take care of our own. This is absolutely not true. While I am not a fan of this bill, that is bs to the max put out by the democrats. Article from NBC news: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/acha-pre-existing-conditions-rape-pregn... What the bill does is allow for higher rates for or existing conditions if YOU LET YOUR INSURANCE LAPSE. They don't charge higher rates from the get go.
I think everybody is putting the cart before the horse....MANY Republicans have come out and said that this bill will not pass in the Senate.....
If you think that this is a lie, or some sort of gimmick, it is not. Look it up.
I work in mental health and we have been following this bill quite closely. I work with a lot of patients who are effected by these conditions. I have family members who are effected by these conditions, the conditions in which this bill is saying that they can be denied insurance.
It is true that there are many republicans that have backed out of this bill as it is going into the senate, and I stand by that decision. They need to actually revamp it to benefit everyone. | |
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