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Expert
Posts: 1694
   
Location: Willows, CA | The best grain is no grain, and spend your money on better roughage. I understand that is not always possible, and at times quality roughage is just not available. If you have it fixed in your mind that you just must feed a grain based feed, don't feed over 1 to 2 pounds of any of them at a single feeding. If you have to add feedings during the day or later in the evening, that is always better than overfeeding grain at one or two feedings per day. As to which grain based feed to use, in most cases it doesn't really matter much. Today most grain based feeds are "least cost formulated" and only the bag art is the same each time you buy. What is in the bag from lot to lot will be different. The horse can't read the bag, and most horse owners don't either. They just buy the same bag art every time.
You are primarily adding starch and sugar with grain. To a point the horse can properly extract that in a digestible form in the small intestine until it runs out of the enzyme that breaks those components down. From that point on, that starch and sugar becomes a disruption to digestion of the more natural energy source in the diet, the roughage. That is why smaller feedings with time in between for the horse to produce more enzyme is safer and more effective if you feel that you really need to feed grain.
Edited by winwillows 2017-08-08 2:09 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | TheDutchMan01 - 2017-08-08 2:13 PM Ohiobarrelracer - 2017-08-08 7:25 AM streakysox - 2017-08-08 12:52 AM Purina had my trainer try some feeds. Trainer has always taken spectacular care of my horses so I asked her how she could tell if there was improvement. She said she could definitely see a difference. She feeding PURINA IMPACT PROFESSIONAL PERFORMANCE to our performance horses. This is a new feed but should be in feed stores now. She also adds PURINA OUTLAST for ulcer prevention. I've actually been looking into the OUTLAST. I like the extra tummy benefits, but i just hate that purina isnt made in a toxic free mill. Theres been so many issues around here with cross contaimination and horses getting sick from posioned feed. I just cant bring myself to take the risk. I hate to break it to you but neither is tribute. They lied about it. That being said I feel like tribute is superior to purina. I've feed purina impact sweet feed and it would have junk in it. Tribute is a fixed feed and it's always very consistent. If I didn't have access to the tribute I would probably feed purina.
I very much like the Tribute, My horses look beautiful on it and i love that its a fixed feed. I WISH i could afford triple crown. But man, i just cant afford that. Ive just never been a fan of Purina. A few in my barn feed it and they are always adding extra supplements/feeding higher amounts to get the horses where they want them. I just dont feel like i should have to be doing that. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | winwillows - 2017-08-08 3:03 PM The best grain is no grain, and spend your money on better roughage. I understand that is not always possible, and at times quality roughage is just not available. If you have it fixed in your mind that you just must feed a grain based feed, don't feed over 1 to 2 pounds of any of them at a single feeding. If you have to add feedings during the day or later in the evening, that is always better than overfeeding grain at one or two feedings per day. As to which grain based feed to use, in most cases it doesn't really matter much. Today most grain based feeds are "least cost formulated" and only the bag art is the same each time you buy. What is in the bag from lot to lot will be different. The horse can't read the bag, and most horse owners don't either. They just buy the same bag art every time. You are primarily adding starch and sugar with grain. To a point the horse can properly extract that in a digestible form in the small intestine until it runs out of the enzyme that breaks those components down. From that point on, that starch and sugar becomes a disruption to digestion of the more natural energy source in the diet, the roughage. That is why smaller feedings with time in between for the horse to produce more enzyme is safer and more effective if you feel that you really need to feed grain.
I 100% agree with you. I wish i didnt have to feed a grain, but we just dont have the quailty roughage available nor do i have the turnout thats needed so my horses have to be on a grain for now. They currently get 3lbs AM and PM because i dont have the option for a third feeding. I board and someone feeds in the AM for me while im at work and i do the rest. I do the most research i can before finally deciding on what i put in front of my horses. I just dont get them what looks the best. Some are saying if its not broke dont fix it but i just want to do whats best for them. |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | Ohiobarrelracer - 2017-08-09 10:00 AM
winwillows - 2017-08-08 3:03 PM The best grain is no grain, and spend your money on better roughage. I understand that is not always possible, and at times quality roughage is just not available. If you have it fixed in your mind that you just must feed a grain based feed, don't feed over 1 to 2 pounds of any of them at a single feeding. If you have to add feedings during the day or later in the evening, that is always better than overfeeding grain at one or two feedings per day. As to which grain based feed to use, in most cases it doesn't really matter much. Today most grain based feeds are "least cost formulated" and only the bag art is the same each time you buy. What is in the bag from lot to lot will be different. The horse can't read the bag, and most horse owners don't either. They just buy the same bag art every time. You are primarily adding starch and sugar with grain. To a point the horse can properly extract that in a digestible form in the small intestine until it runs out of the enzyme that breaks those components down. From that point on, that starch and sugar becomes a disruption to digestion of the more natural energy source in the diet, the roughage. That is why smaller feedings with time in between for the horse to produce more enzyme is safer and more effective if you feel that you really need to feed grain.
I 100% agree with you. I wish i didnt have to feed a grain, but we just dont have the quailty roughage available nor do i have the turnout thats needed so my horses have to be on a grain for now. They currently get 3lbs AM and PM because i dont have the option for a third feeding. I board and someone feeds in the AM for me while im at work and i do the rest. I do the most research i can before finally deciding on what i put in front of my horses. I just dont get them what looks the best. Some are saying if its not broke dont fix it but i just want to do whats best for them.
You might try cutting the grain back by about 1/3 and adding some alfalfa pellets or cubes in place of that. You would be amazed how shifting the digestive process back to the hind gut for that rather than overwhelming the small intestine can benefit overall efficiency. Three pounds per feeding of grain based feed is not a disaster, but there are some alternatives to doing so that can result in better hind gut function to more completely digest the roughage. This in turn means that more calories captured from the roughage there lessens the need to try to provide additional grain based calories. It is all a balancing act, but you need to take care of the hind gut first, and add whatever else you might then need in the smallest, least disruptive package possible. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | winwillows - 2017-08-09 11:25 AM
Ohiobarrelracer - 2017-08-09 10:00 AM
winwillows - 2017-08-08 3:03 PM The best grain is no grain, and spend your money on better roughage. I understand that is not always possible, and at times quality roughage is just not available. If you have it fixed in your mind that you just must feed a grain based feed, don't feed over 1 to 2 pounds of any of them at a single feeding. If you have to add feedings during the day or later in the evening, that is always better than overfeeding grain at one or two feedings per day. As to which grain based feed to use, in most cases it doesn't really matter much. Today most grain based feeds are "least cost formulated" and only the bag art is the same each time you buy. What is in the bag from lot to lot will be different. The horse can't read the bag, and most horse owners don't either. They just buy the same bag art every time. You are primarily adding starch and sugar with grain. To a point the horse can properly extract that in a digestible form in the small intestine until it runs out of the enzyme that breaks those components down. From that point on, that starch and sugar becomes a disruption to digestion of the more natural energy source in the diet, the roughage. That is why smaller feedings with time in between for the horse to produce more enzyme is safer and more effective if you feel that you really need to feed grain.
I 100% agree with you. I wish i didnt have to feed a grain, but we just dont have the quailty roughage available nor do i have the turnout thats needed so my horses have to be on a grain for now. They currently get 3lbs AM and PM because i dont have the option for a third feeding. I board and someone feeds in the AM for me while im at work and i do the rest. I do the most research i can before finally deciding on what i put in front of my horses. I just dont get them what looks the best. Some are saying if its not broke dont fix it but i just want to do whats best for them.
You might try cutting the grain back by about 1/3 and adding some alfalfa pellets or cubes in place of that. You would be amazed how shifting the digestive process back to the hind gut for that rather than overwhelming the small intestine can benefit overall efficiency. Three pounds per feeding of grain based feed is not a disaster, but there are some alternatives to doing so that can result in better hind gut function to more completely digest the roughage. This in turn means that more calories captured from the roughage there lessens the need to try to provide additional grain based calories. It is all a balancing act, but you need to take care of the hind gut first, and add whatever else you might then need in the smallest, least disruptive package possible.
I agree with maybe trying to cut his grain back. If he is keeping his weight maybe he just doesn't want to eat that much grain or it's very possible the ulcers are your issue. I would cut him back and then maybe try something to help with digestion/ulcers. Keep grass hay in front of him all the time. Being stalled all the time probably doesn't help his tummy either. The other might handle it well, but it sound like this one stresses and that could be what it causing him to not want to finish his meal. I know that it's not what you asked for in response but it sounds like your happy with the grain your currently feeding. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Blue Bonnet Omega Force. You won't have to feed as much. Has all the probiotic and prebiotics already in feed. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | TheDutchMan01 - 2017-08-09 2:11 PM winwillows - 2017-08-09 11:25 AM Ohiobarrelracer - 2017-08-09 10:00 AM winwillows - 2017-08-08 3:03 PM The best grain is no grain, and spend your money on better roughage. I understand that is not always possible, and at times quality roughage is just not available. If you have it fixed in your mind that you just must feed a grain based feed, don't feed over 1 to 2 pounds of any of them at a single feeding. If you have to add feedings during the day or later in the evening, that is always better than overfeeding grain at one or two feedings per day. As to which grain based feed to use, in most cases it doesn't really matter much. Today most grain based feeds are "least cost formulated" and only the bag art is the same each time you buy. What is in the bag from lot to lot will be different. The horse can't read the bag, and most horse owners don't either. They just buy the same bag art every time. You are primarily adding starch and sugar with grain. To a point the horse can properly extract that in a digestible form in the small intestine until it runs out of the enzyme that breaks those components down. From that point on, that starch and sugar becomes a disruption to digestion of the more natural energy source in the diet, the roughage. That is why smaller feedings with time in between for the horse to produce more enzyme is safer and more effective if you feel that you really need to feed grain. I 100% agree with you. I wish i didnt have to feed a grain, but we just dont have the quailty roughage available nor do i have the turnout thats needed so my horses have to be on a grain for now. They currently get 3lbs AM and PM because i dont have the option for a third feeding. I board and someone feeds in the AM for me while im at work and i do the rest. I do the most research i can before finally deciding on what i put in front of my horses. I just dont get them what looks the best. Some are saying if its not broke dont fix it but i just want to do whats best for them. You might try cutting the grain back by about 1/3 and adding some alfalfa pellets or cubes in place of that. You would be amazed how shifting the digestive process back to the hind gut for that rather than overwhelming the small intestine can benefit overall efficiency. Three pounds per feeding of grain based feed is not a disaster, but there are some alternatives to doing so that can result in better hind gut function to more completely digest the roughage. This in turn means that more calories captured from the roughage there lessens the need to try to provide additional grain based calories. It is all a balancing act, but you need to take care of the hind gut first, and add whatever else you might then need in the smallest, least disruptive package possible. I agree with maybe trying to cut his grain back. If he is keeping his weight maybe he just doesn't want to eat that much grain or it's very possible the ulcers are your issue. I would cut him back and then maybe try something to help with digestion/ulcers. Keep grass hay in front of him all the time. Being stalled all the time probably doesn't help his tummy either. The other might handle it well, but it sound like this one stresses and that could be what it causing him to not want to finish his meal. I know that it's not what you asked for in response but it sounds like your happy with the grain your currently feeding.
I appreciate any advise! They do get out about 5-8 hours a day but thats it besides if were camping and i set a pen up for them for the weekend shows. My other one doesnt have ulcers because he will actually eat his ulcer meds! my main mount is the picky eater and sifted right through it. I had him on aloe vera juice and he would clean everything up, so i think im going to put him back on that but i would also like to add some alfalfa considering thats his favorite and he gets hauled/ran the most. His current joint supplement is alfalfa based and he cleans it up so i know i wont be wasting any cubes if thats what i get. Id love to cut my grain down if i can keep them at their current weight and have the tummies feeling good! I was going to try the Tribute Senority because its beet pulp based but i dont like how much higer NSC it is compared to the Kalm n EZ, so i think im just going to keep the grain the same and lessen the amount and add some alfalfa and AVJ. Yall have been a great help. Thank you so much !!!! |
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.shs) Veteran
Posts: 178
Location: Missouri | I have a very easy keeper and he is just on Purina Enrich (1 lb a day) and grass hay as well as pasture. He is SUPER laid back suggestions for something to give him a little more run? |
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Veteran
Posts: 178
Location: Missouri | I have a very easy keeper and he is just on Purina Enrich (1 lb a day) and grass hay as well as pasture. He is SUPER laid back suggestions for something to give him a little more run? |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Ohiobarrelracer - 2017-08-08 7:25 AM
streakysox - 2017-08-08 12:52 AM Purina had my trainer try some feeds. Trainer has always taken spectacular care of my horses so I asked her how she could tell if there was improvement. She said she could definitely see a difference. She feeding PURINA IMPACT PROFESSIONAL PERFORMANCE to our performance horses. This is a new feed but should be in feed stores now. She also adds PURINA OUTLAST for ulcer prevention.
I've actually been looking into the OUTLAST. I like the extra tummy benefits, but i just hate that purina isnt made in a toxic free mill. Theres been so many issues around here with cross contaimination and horses getting sick from posioned feed. I just cant bring myself to take the risk.
I am 99% sure that Purina horse feeds are not made in mills that handle cattle feeds - that’s why we’ve always fed it. I’ve also seen this statement made by Purina.
You may be confused with Nutrena, although I’ve also heard they’ve changed that, wish they had been more vocal about that. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | BlueBonnet Feeds is the only feed I trust and use, right now two are getting the Equilene pellets and one gets the Triple Crown Lite, and with this feed when spring/ summer gets here and my pastures are good I cut their feed in half.. I dont have to feed very much of it. |
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  Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | Renew Gold.
Edited by cranky B4 10am 2018-06-07 12:14 PM
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | Nutrena Top Line Balance |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | Nutrena Triumph Complete. It's alfalfa based. So far, I like it. |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | Renew Gold and alfalfa pellets |
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Southtxponygirl - 2018-06-07 9:31 AM BlueBonnet Feeds is the only feed I trust and use, right now two are getting the Equilene pellets and one gets the Triple Crown Lite, and with this feed when spring/ summer gets here and my pastures are good I cut their feed in half.. I dont have to feed very much of it.
Bluebonnet Ultra Fat. It has a lower NSC than most. Had to cut back on one horse as she was getting too fat. Have another horse I'm trying to put weight on and it is working. Love Bluebonnet. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1516
Location: Illinois | I personally wouldn't call one eating 6lbs a day an easy keeper, especially on an 8% fat feed. At that amount you're basically promoting the ulcers. I'd just add alfalfa pellets and cut back the Tribute. I don't feed hay pellets without wetting them down, but that's just my choice. I know a lot of people feed them dry. If you have a Progressive dealer near you I recommend the Advantage diet balancers. That's what mine eat now, about 1.5 lbs, even my super super hard keeper eats close to 2lbs at 25 years old. It's about $33 a bag, but a 50lb bag lasts me around a month. It's pretty cost efficient and low NSC and they get all their nutritional requirements from it. I am switching back to Tribute though now that a local feed store has become a dealer. I switched because the old dealer went out of business a while ago & I didn't want to drive an hour to get feed. |
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