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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
   
Location: Texas | Bear - 2017-06-10 8:19 PM
total performance - 2017-06-10 5:36 PM
Usually happens when you go through a vein.
More likely when you inject into an artery......directly to the brain.
IV penicillin will drop one dead real fast. Don't even have to hit the carotid for them to drop dead. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | casualdust07 - 2017-06-11 9:59 AM
Bear - 2017-06-10 8:19 PM
total performance - 2017-06-10 5:36 PM
Usually happens when you go through a vein.
More likely when you inject into an artery......directly to the brain.
IV penicillin will drop one dead real fast. Don't even have to hit the carotid for them to drop dead.
True in both cases, but I guarantee you intra arterial is more deadly.
Bottom line is people need to know how to give injections properly.
Most people I've seen don't. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
Location: MN | Oh my...how sad! Im so sorry for your loss. Prayers and hugs to you  |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bear, could a vet be held responsible if they do not properly show the owner how to inject this medication? Curious how liable they are for prescribing and not teaching an owner how to administer.
Heck, if I was a vet I would be scared to death to prescribe this medicaiton.  |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-12 8:35 AM Bear, could a vet be held responsible if they do not properly show the owner how to inject this medication? Curious how liable they are for prescribing and not teaching an owner how to administer.
Heck, if I was a vet I would be scared to death to prescribe this medicaiton.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-06-12 9:05 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | OMG this is terrible! Im glad I learned something from this, but so sorry for your loss. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| casualdust07 - 2017-06-11 9:59 AM
Bear - 2017-06-10 8:19 PM
total performance - 2017-06-10 5:36 PM
Usually happens when you go through a vein.
More likely when you inject into an artery......directly to the brain.
IV penicillin will drop one dead real fast. Don't even have to hit the carotid for them to drop dead.
Just to clarify
Penicillin specifically developed to be given intravenous will not kill a horse, it is designed to be given IV
The penicillin you get over the counter labelled IM only can cause death if given IV.
As others have said it is the procaine reaction. This is added into the IM as a local freezing agent as penicillin burns like a buggar going into the muscle.
My vet explained that the procaine shuts down the brain, some horses fight reflex will kick in a their own adrenaline saves them. These horses will do the funky chicken, I had a couple do this, and I pull back every 2.5 ml and no blood ever appeared but I must have been right beside the blood vessel.
Sorry for your loss |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| I am SO sorry this happened to you!!! I have been giving my yearling Penicillin for the past 20 days after bad out break of strangles. I had a little bit of scare when I pulled back and saw blood the other night after I'd already injected a little bit. I was a vet tech for years but had to go back and watch a video and remind myself how to correctly give an IM.
I agree it sounds like you hit an artery. It can happen to anyone, I saw a really good intern vet student give Banamine in the artery once. The only thing that saved that horse was spinal needle to the heart with epinepherine, which would have been impossible in your situation. So sorry, do NOT blame yourself!!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | so very sorry to hear this but, thank you for the thread. ive learned a lot from it. I used to give mine P pretty carelessly to be honest and after reading all this info i wont be anymore. Thats too much of a risk and im very lucky to not have had any bad reactions. Youll be in our prayers!! |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I am so very sorry for your loss! My girlfriend had a horse suffer a terrible reaction from penicillin - fell thrashing to the ground. Turns out he was allergic. I use Naxcel as my "go-to" antibiotic - though not to say one couldn't be allergic to that too.
Again, so very sorry. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Southtxponygirl - 2017-06-12 8:52 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-12 8:35 AM Bear, could a vet be held responsible if they do not properly show the owner how to inject this medication? Curious how liable they are for prescribing and not teaching an owner how to administer.
Heck, if I was a vet I would be scared to death to prescribe this medicaiton.
Really? I didn't know that. Never had needed Penicillin either... Maybe this is why I didn't know that.  |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-12 12:31 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-06-12 8:52 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-12 8:35 AM Bear, could a vet be held responsible if they do not properly show the owner how to inject this medication? Curious how liable they are for prescribing and not teaching an owner how to administer.
Heck, if I was a vet I would be scared to death to prescribe this medicaiton.
It depends. It sounds like in this case a vet was not involved in prescribing the penicillin or seeing the horses, so there would be no one to even go after.
I guess in theory, if a veterinarian prescribed medication and failed to ask the owner if they were comfortable giving shots, then maybe they could try... but I don't see that holding up in court. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2017-06-12 9:32 AM
casualdust07 - 2017-06-11 9:59 AM
Bear - 2017-06-10 8:19 PM
total performance - 2017-06-10 5:36 PM
Usually happens when you go through a vein.
More likely when you inject into an artery......directly to the brain.
IV penicillin will drop one dead real fast. Don't even have to hit the carotid for them to drop dead.
Just to clarify
Penicillin specifically developed to be given intravenous will not kill a horse, it is designed to be given IV
The penicillin you get over the counter labelled IM only can cause death if given IV.
As others have said it is the procaine reaction. This is added into the IM as a local freezing agent as penicillin burns like a buggar going into the muscle.
My vet explained that the procaine shuts down the brain, some horses fight reflex will kick in a their own adrenaline saves them. These horses will do the funky chicken, I had a couple do this, and I pull back every 2.5 ml and no blood ever appeared but I must have been right beside the blood vessel.
Sorry for your loss
Yes, that's K-pen or potassium penicillin. It has to be re constituted and is given IV and also has to be given at shorter intervals than PPG/procaine penicillin. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| A little off topic, you people in the states can you get the long acting penicillin for horses?
In Canada we used to but they stopped making it a year ago. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-12 8:35 AM
Bear, could a vet be held responsible if they do not properly show the owner how to inject this medication? Curious how liable they are for prescribing and not teaching an owner how to administer.
Heck, if I was a vet I would be scared to death to prescribe this medicaiton.
No, I highly doubt anyone would consider the vet to be responsible. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bear - 2017-06-12 1:27 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-12 8:35 AM Bear, could a vet be held responsible if they do not properly show the owner how to inject this medication? Curious how liable they are for prescribing and not teaching an owner how to administer.
Heck, if I was a vet I would be scared to death to prescribe this medicaiton. No, I highly doubt anyone would consider the vet to be responsible.
Just curious.... I would never personally sue a vet for this but In today's world I was just curious if there was any liability there.
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2017-06-12 1:21 PM
A little off topic, you people in the states can you get the long acting penicillin for horses?
In Canada we used to but they stopped making it a year ago.
Not to my knowledge. All I've ever seen was K pen or PPG. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | I'm so sorry for your loss. . . |
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