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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| stayceem - 2016-10-19 9:59 AM
I am definitely one who tries not to judge and to be fair but the fact is, this is happening SO OFTEN. I see 4-5 horses from the same ranch week after week in the slaughter pen. Different ranches but commonly people breeding, not touching and then kicking them to the kill pen. The irresponsible breeder who puts their initials in names or brands them and then sells to slaughter? dumb.
I do understand that "life happens." But I do not think this is the case in most circumstances. Yes, health issues, job loss, whatever may be a contributor but it happens all too often for this to always be the case. And when I see 10s/20s ran loose through a sale ring, they clearly were breeding too many and should have been more responsible.
You are judging these people without knowing anything.
With comments like yours, this is how PETA gets ammunition and support to stop breeding and rodeo events. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| DLV - 2016-10-19 11:28 AM
rodeoveteran - 2016-10-19 10:22 AM
I don't like it but am enough of a realist to know that horses are livestock. I am aware of someone that used to raised draft horses and ship them clear across the country to be loaded on boats for Japan where they were then slaughtered for meat. He has passed away so is not doing so anymore. I might not have liked it but it was his legal right to do so.
DO I wish that people would be more responsible in breeding their horses (and dogs and cats). For sure! But I don't want Big Bother, or my neighbor, for that matter, to be telling me that I cannot breed my good mare.
So what it the alternative? And what do we do with all the unwanted horses out there? I REALLY hate all the CL adds I see with people trying to sell their twofeetinthegrave old faithful that they don't want to feed anymore, or the cripple THEY can no longer use, but I cannot prevent them from doing so. Most of those horses go on a truck to Mexico too, after have given a lifetime of service. I really hate THAT.
I agree, responsible breeders would go a long way... unfortunately with unlimited freedom.. not the case... I know so many that breed crappy horses then put a post up a few months later BEGGING someone to buy their horses that a few months ago they were so excited to breed. 
The way you talk you are wanting to limit our freedoms. We have very little freedom as it is, and you are wanting to make it smaller, or become a dictatorship. That way the government can tell us what horses to breed and what ones to kill. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | cheryl makofka - 2016-10-19 1:39 PM
DLV - 2016-10-19 11:28 AM
rodeoveteran - 2016-10-19 10:22 AM
I don't like it but am enough of a realist to know that horses are livestock. I am aware of someone that used to raised draft horses and ship them clear across the country to be loaded on boats for Japan where they were then slaughtered for meat. He has passed away so is not doing so anymore. I might not have liked it but it was his legal right to do so.
DO I wish that people would be more responsible in breeding their horses (and dogs and cats). For sure! But I don't want Big Bother, or my neighbor, for that matter, to be telling me that I cannot breed my good mare.
So what it the alternative? And what do we do with all the unwanted horses out there? I REALLY hate all the CL adds I see with people trying to sell their twofeetinthegrave old faithful that they don't want to feed anymore, or the cripple THEY can no longer use, but I cannot prevent them from doing so. Most of those horses go on a truck to Mexico too, after have given a lifetime of service. I really hate THAT.
I agree, responsible breeders would go a long way... unfortunately with unlimited freedom.. not the case... I know so many that breed crappy horses then put a post up a few months later BEGGING someone to buy their horses that a few months ago they were so excited to breed.
The way you talk you are wanting to limit our freedoms. We have very little freedom as it is, and you are wanting to make it smaller, or become a dictatorship. That way the government can tell us what horses to breed and what ones to kill.
My beliefs about it tend to be in the middle and I think MOST people take on more than they can handle and that's why so many end up in crisis... IMO, we all need to be prepared for a crisis and not over extend ourselves, it's always the animals who pay when we do. If there isn't a very strong market to buy horses, why breed them and spend more on them than you will even get back. Obviously if they sold these horses at kill pen prices at 5 yrs of age more or less, we all know what it costs to raise horses.. they did not make any money off them so it was no help to them at all so why breed if that is the whole goal of breeding? and sad thing is, after selling many to kill pen, I think they are still breeding.. to me, that makes absolutely no sense?
Edited by DLV 2016-10-19 4:06 PM
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| cheryl makofka - 2016-10-19 1:36 PM
stayceem - 2016-10-19 9:59 AM
I am definitely one who tries not to judge and to be fair but the fact is, this is happening SO OFTEN. I see 4-5 horses from the same ranch week after week in the slaughter pen. Different ranches but commonly people breeding, not touching and then kicking them to the kill pen. The irresponsible breeder who puts their initials in names or brands them and then sells to slaughter? dumb.
I do understand that "life happens." But I do not think this is the case in most circumstances. Yes, health issues, job loss, whatever may be a contributor but it happens all too often for this to always be the case. And when I see 10s/20s ran loose through a sale ring, they clearly were breeding too many and should have been more responsible.
You are judging these people without knowing anything.
With comments like yours, this is how PETA gets ammunition and support to stop breeding and rodeo events.
I stated in my original post that things in life do happen... my point is that this excuse seems to come up an awful lot and although it is certainly true in some cases, it is also NOT true in some cases. Maybe there is a difference where we live but I can tell you that many many friends of mine have small mom/pop breeding facilities and have certainly gotten in over their heads. However, they have always put the time into putting some amount of effort into a sale and were able to find them able homes without utilizing a kill pen.
Maybe I have a bad taste in my mouth after I attended a dispersal sale where 80% of the horses went to slaughter and they still kept a few of their favorite mares and their stud.
Also, I don't know what my comment has to do with rodeo events??? My comment may give PETA some ammunition but nothing that isn't already well known. You cannot tell me with a straight face that every breeder is responsible. I don't know the circumstances behind the breeder mentioned by OP - what my post was referring to were the comments about "life happening." Life does happen and it is so unfortunate when a job loss, drought or illness/injury puts people in a bad situation. I hope I never end up there. But, I do think there are a few things people can do to give horses a better chance.
As the OP said, if you are constantly dumping horses at sales because they don't sell - reevaluate your program. Don't continue breeding and continue dumping at the sale barn/kill pen. AGAIN - not saying this is what happened in this case but it is happening an awful lot!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
| I know who they are but I do not know them personally. They arent bad people. I drive by their place a lot as it is right by a main highway. They always have several horses around (appear well cared for) but I have no idea what they do with them. Trailride, mainly, I think. Yes, we are in a drought right now and maybe she was forced to sell some, who knows... Unforseen circumstances force us to do things we don't want to.. Good Luck with him and Im glad he gets a second chance with you.
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | And they might have been sold in Ok because they didn't want them run through the kill pen in there own back yard. This is just life in the horse world. Worry about things you have control over and forget about the rest. |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | BS Hauler - 2016-10-20 9:03 AM
And they might have been sold in Ok because they didn't want them run through the kill pen in there own back yard. This is just life in the horse world. Worry about things you have control over and forget about the rest.
You might be right... maybe so they wouldn't be harassed about it while they keep on breeding... if that is the case, by the sounds of it, they are still breeding.... |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | Good grief. Just do something with the dang horse. Quit dragging the past owners into. If they want to raise horses that go to slaughter that is their business. They are livestock after all. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| ksjackofalltrades - 2016-10-21 2:42 PM
Good grief. Just do something with the dang horse. Quit dragging the past owners into. If they want to raise horses that go to slaughter that is their business. They are livestock after all.
I agree! It is great that you saved him from the kill pen, but seriously- move on! You have no idea why he and the others were in there and it's really none of your business - or ours. They owe you no explanation. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I recently liked some of the rescue pages local to my area, and Facebook friended several ladies who are heavily involved in rescue and buying horses from auction in the effort of finding them homes instead of letting them sell to kill buyers. So for about the past month I have been scrolling through their posts. Not taking any action yet, just watching them, checking them out, seeing what all they're about.
My intention was to get involved. Do what I could. Take on a couple of cases a year or something.
The DRAMA in the "rescue" industry quickly turned me away from wanting to help at all! It's ridiculous!
It is constant bashing, running names through the mud, airing dirty laundry of the people who take horses to auction, people who buy horses at auction, people who later sell the horses that they "saved" from auction, etc. No one can save a horse like THEY would have saved it. And by God if you don't keep that sucker until it's 35 and it dies a peaceful death and goes to horsey heaven, then you are a terrible excuse for a human being.
My point is.... You saved a horse from slaughter. That is a good thing! It doesn't need to turn into a witch hunt. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Well if the OP is having this much issues over this horse then call the people that did own him and tell them how you feel instead of bashing them, you may find out the real reason why they sold these horses. The number is on that link that was posted.. |
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Location: in the ozone | I remember when these horses were in the kill pen & on one of the pages. A few people tried to contact the breeder back then but they did not respond. What was thought on these horses was that they were PSSM positive and that is why they got dumped. 5 panel your horse to be sure. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | Do you have the papers on the horse? Registered name? I would run a 5 panel, that may answer all your questions. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | You are very passionate about saving horses. And that's commendable. We know our horses on a personal level and it's hard to think of them as a meat source. To many of us, they're pets, partners, family members and most of us do our best to put their needs before our own. But, not everyone feels that way. There are many, many people who think of them strictly in dollars and cents, as just a piece of equipment or just an animal. And, as long as they're well cared for, not abused or neglected, that's their right. |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | And if we have the processing facilities here it would be more humane for those horses headed that direction. 
**Good Monday Morning :) Couldn't help myself.
Honestly, the whole throwing stones thing is ridiculous. It really isn't anyone's business how the horse(s) ended up there. In our area, the guys known as "killer buyers" usually have some people working for them that will try anything that could be made into a riding horse! There's still a lot more $$ to be made on a horse with some potential then just market price.
You bought a 5 year old untouched horse. It was probably cheap (as it should have been) so good luck and sometimes you get what you pay for... |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I am amazed how many people / posts on here recommend looking the other way. Ignoring, pretending, this stuff isn't happening. I haven't seen anyone "bash" these sellers. I have seen multiple people trying to analyze or mention possible reasons, etc.
I understand slaughter has its place but I have a really hard time sitting back and watching people flood the market over and over again without any accountability. Again, I am not saying this is what happened with these sellers. However, I think burying our head in the sand and never asking questions, exploring reasons then we will never reach solutions.
None of you all want the "government" telling you what to do with you horses. If we don't shape up, I see that in our future one day. I think people need to be held accountable for their irresponsible breeding operations.
Yes, terrible things happen and send people into bad financial situations. I can sympathize with that but A LOT of times, that is not the case. I have seen it time and time again...
Let the OP reach out to whoever she wishes and hopefully if these breeders are being irresponsible, maybe they will think twice that these actions aren't swept under the rug. If they are in a poor financial situation, then the OP will know and no harm no foul. |
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| I think I sit on the fence in regards to this. On the one hand I fully support culling the weak, the ones with incorrect conformation, health issues, genetic issues and the ones that may just be untrainable or not worth the hassle. They are livestock. If more people did this our breed would be strengthened.
On the other hand I don't agree with mindless breeding and frankly there are a lot of people who do this. Then when they get in a bind there is no option but to slaughter the horses as they have no real value.
It sounds like none of us really know the facts about this horse, but there is nothing wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions, just make sure you are prepared to hear what they have to say good or bad.
I agree with the above poster. If we don't govern ourselves the government steps in and does it for us. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| stayceem - 2016-10-24 9:11 AM
I am amazed how many people / posts on here recommend looking the other way. Ignoring, pretending, this stuff isn't happening. I haven't seen anyone "bash" these sellers. I have seen multiple people trying to analyze or mention possible reasons, etc.
I understand slaughter has its place but I have a really hard time sitting back and watching people flood the market over and over again without any accountability. Again, I am not saying this is what happened with these sellers. However, I think burying our head in the sand and never asking questions, exploring reasons then we will never reach solutions.
None of you all want the "government" telling you what to do with you horses. If we don't shape up, I see that in our future one day. I think people need to be held accountable for their irresponsible breeding operations.
Yes, terrible things happen and send people into bad financial situations. I can sympathize with that but A LOT of times, that is not the case. I have seen it time and time again...
Let the OP reach out to whoever she wishes and hopefully if these breeders are being irresponsible, maybe they will think twice that these actions aren't swept under the rug. If they are in a poor financial situation, then the OP will know and no harm no foul.
I am not sticking my head in the sand. I will never send a horse to the kill pen. If they are dangerous or that crippled I spend the money to have them put down. However, we ranch and while I see my horses as companions, I also realize that to some people they are livestock. So I believe that if they want to raise them for food, that is their right as long as they are not abused or starved. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | If the OP has a problem with these horses that she knows nothing about how or why they ended up in kill pens, she needs to contact the breeders. She has the contact info. |
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