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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
   
Location: Arkansas | Hopefully y'all get this figured oit  |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | I am a firm believer inreating for paracites after I neglected for many years. When Isaw my first worm I was amazed and started on a program.Horses have a very small percent of ulcers in the hind gut. True Omeprazole will not heal ulcers in Hind gut. Omeprazole is the way to go for ulcers!!!! |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Liana D - 2018-10-18 8:52 AM
I would do a Safeguard Power Pack and also work for tapeworms (anything with Praziquantel). I would also put him on Assure Guard Gold. They have a program that pays your vet bills (whether they need surgery or not) if he’s on their product and enrolled in the program.
If he did have stomach ulcers and you were using name brand Ulcergard, not compounded, you should have seen a response by now.
I’ve seen horses do this when they’ve got tape worms (which won’t show in a fecal) so it wouldn’t hurt to treat for that.
The AGG is a big dose of probiotics and psyllium. It’s straightened out some chronics for me.
Also, several horses I know of lately have been having huge loads of bloodworms, even though they've been wormed regularly and wormers were rotated. Power pak is the only one, I think, that gets bloodworms. Be sure and specifically ask your vet to check for them. |
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 The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | Update: Spent 5 hours consulting with 4 different vets at the equine hospital in Ocala yesterday. Did a full scoping this time and all looked fine--just some keritinization from former ulcers/stress. Did abdominal radiographs. Minimal sand and no enteroliths visible. Did an abdominal ultrasound, no thickening or anything unusual that they could identify. Rectal exam relatively normal. Bloodwork normal. So.....we don't know. They didn't think parasite load was much to worry about but they suggested Equimax follwed by Quest a couple weeks later. They are wondering if it is the roundbale hay in the pasture causing mild impactions every once in a while. I am not so sure I go along with this theory because the timing of his episodes doesnt seem to flow with this theory, and he passes manure consistently and it is never overly hard/dry or anything, but...
They suggested Assure Guard Gold, so I will order that. Like a board member said here, the $10,000 coverage after 3 months may help if they need to go in and explore after/during an episode.
So frustrating.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-10-23 7:31 AM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | horsegirl - 2018-10-23 7:47 AM
Update: Spent 5 hours consulting with 4 different vets at the equine hospital in Ocala yesterday. Did a full scoping this time and all looked fine--just some keritinization from former ulcers/stress. Did abdominal radiographs. Minimal sand and no enteroliths visible. Did an abdominal ultrasound, no thickening or anything unusual that they could identify. Rectal exam relatively normal. Bloodwork normal. So.....we don't know. They didn't think parasite load was much to worry about but they suggested Equimax follwed by Quest a couple weeks later. They are wondering if it is the roundbale hay in the pasture causing mild impactions every once in a while. I am not so sure I go along with this theory because the timing of his episodes doesnt seem to flow with this theory, and he passes manure consistently and it is never overly hard/dry or anything, but...
They suggested Assure Guard Gold, so I will order that. Like a board member said here, the $10,000 coverage after 3 months may help if they need to go in and explore after/during an episode.
So frustrating.
This makes me sad for you,after having gone through what you did with your mare,and now this with a new horse:(((Just wanted to say I'm sorry you are going through this:(( |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I have had more than one horse that could not have free access to a roundbale, both from an impaction perspective as well as mold perspective. I would agree that could definitely be contributing to the issue. I'd also still recommend removing any processed grain and using either timothy or alfalfa pellets (1 - 2 pounds per feeding) soaked to mix in any supplements you use, and even some supplements i'd be leery of due to the fillers and processed crap in them. Sorry you're having to deal with this, as I know it can be so frustrating and scary! |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | jake16 - 2018-10-23 8:59 AM horsegirl - 2018-10-23 7:47 AM Update: Spent 5 hours consulting with 4 different vets at the equine hospital in Ocala yesterday. Did a full scoping this time and all looked fine--just some keritinization from former ulcers/stress. Did abdominal radiographs. Minimal sand and no enteroliths visible. Did an abdominal ultrasound, no thickening or anything unusual that they could identify. Rectal exam relatively normal. Bloodwork normal. So.....we don't know. They didn't think parasite load was much to worry about but they suggested Equimax follwed by Quest a couple weeks later. They are wondering if it is the roundbale hay in the pasture causing mild impactions every once in a while. I am not so sure I go along with this theory because the timing of his episodes doesnt seem to flow with this theory, and he passes manure consistently and it is never overly hard/dry or anything, but...
They suggested Assure Guard Gold, so I will order that. Like a board member said here, the $10,000 coverage after 3 months may help if they need to go in and explore after/during an episode.
So frustrating.
This makes me sad for you,after having gone through what you did with your mare,and now this with a new horse: ( ( (Just wanted to say I'm sorry you are going through this: ( (
I know it. Can't seem to catch a break. The other 40 horses on property have no issues. LOL Unfortunately, there are no pastures that would be stress free (he's an anxiety hot head and really sensitive) that have sufficient grass without having a roundbale out there. |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | Herbie - 2018-10-23 9:40 AM I have had more than one horse that could not have free access to a roundbale, both from an impaction perspective as well as mold perspective. I would agree that could definitely be contributing to the issue. I'd also still recommend removing any processed grain and using either timothy or alfalfa pellets (1 - 2 pounds per feeding) soaked to mix in any supplements you use, and even some supplements i'd be leery of due to the fillers and processed crap in them. Sorry you're having to deal with this, as I know it can be so frustrating and scary!
He's down to 1/2 scoop (4 lbs per day) of senior and all of the vets have agreed that the grain is not the contributing factor at all. They just can't agree on what is the contributing factor. Treating it as a hindgut issue and see how it goes. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bless his heart and yours. Please keep us updated on how he does  |
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Location: in the ozone | What does he do during these colic attacks? (such as pawing; running around; rolling; sweating in weird places; muscle "twitches" or tightness; etc) And what do you have to do to resolve them? |
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 Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5409
| I had one that started doing that. He ended up having colic surgery, they removed about 5 gal. of screenings. When I bought him he was under weight and she had screening in her barn, he must have picked them up while scrounging for hay and grain on the ground. After the surgery he gained a bunch of weight and didn't even look the same. |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | slipperyslope - 2018-10-24 4:31 PM What does he do during these colic attacks? (such as pawing; running around; rolling; sweating in weird places; muscle "twitches" or tightness; etc) And what do you have to do to resolve them? Stops walking and looks scared, looks back at his side(s), respiration increases, and starts laying down and standing back up repeatedly (no rolling really, just sometimes lays flat out), sometimes pawing. Banamine orally brings him out of it within an hour. Although, since I board, he may do it also when unsupervised and I guess he works through it himself.
Started on KER Ritetrac (with Equishure in it) and the Assure Guard Gold and RelyneGI are on the way--per vet recommendations. He has lost ZERO weight during this fiasco. He appears to have no malabsorbtion issues.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-10-25 6:39 AM
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Location: my piece of paradise | I wonder if he has a stricture somewhere in the small intestine. When the digested material tries to go through it and it "hurts" the colic signs would begin. I would be interested to see what a sample of his gastric mucous would show if tested. If banamine helps that makes sense because it relaxes smooth muscle. Kinda see the same thing in my human patients when they have strictures from their Crohn's or ulcerative colitis that need to be dilated. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | If this was my horse I would pull all feed and supplements and just feed him hay for a few weeks and see how he does..And if he still colics with out being fed feed and supplements then I would start him back slowly on his feed and go buy my own hay for a few weeks and see what heppens then, I know you board but good grief this has been going on to long. Poor guy |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | horsegirl - 2018-10-19 8:04 AM readytorodeo - 2018-10-19 8:52 AM Bots will also cause these symptoms. I would worm with ivermectin. It gets tapes also. What are you feeding? We have tried a bunch of different options now over the last couple months. The rate of colic does not change. Started off with 13/8 extruded pellet Went to 12/10 extruded low starch pellet Tried 2 weeks of no grain--just pasture and hay After scoping, vet said to put on Senior feed
Did'nt read all comments and decided too and I see you have done the pulling the feed thing, Man what a mystery, hope this is solved soon for this poor horse. |
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Location: in the ozone | horsegirl - 2018-10-25 5:38 AM
slipperyslope - 2018-10-24 4:31 PM What does he do during these colic attacks? (such as pawing; running around; rolling; sweating in weird places; muscle "twitches" or tightness; etc) And what do you have to do to resolve them? Stops walking and looks scared, looks back at his side(s), respiration increases, and starts laying down and standing back up repeatedly (no rolling really, just sometimes lays flat out), sometimes pawing. Banamine orally brings him out of it within an hour. Although, since I board, he may do it also when unsupervised and I guess he works through it himself.
Started on KER Ritetrac (with Equishure in it) and the Assure Guard Gold and RelyneGI are on the way--per vet recommendations. He has lost ZERO weight during this fiasco. He appears to have no malabsorbtion issues.
Have you considered having him tested for PSSM? If he was fine in the past but just started having issues at this age, that sounds more like PSSM2 vs PSSM1 since it is a later onset. The symptoms you describe could easily be PSSM2 symptoms - many times they are very similar to colic & mistaken for such. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | slipperyslope - 2018-10-25 8:54 PM horsegirl - 2018-10-25 5:38 AM slipperyslope - 2018-10-24 4:31 PM What does he do during these colic attacks? (such as pawing; running around; rolling; sweating in weird places; muscle "twitches" or tightness; etc) And what do you have to do to resolve them? Stops walking and looks scared, looks back at his side(s), respiration increases, and starts laying down and standing back up repeatedly (no rolling really, just sometimes lays flat out), sometimes pawing. Banamine orally brings him out of it within an hour. Although, since I board, he may do it also when unsupervised and I guess he works through it himself.
Started on KER Ritetrac (with Equishure in it) and the Assure Guard Gold and RelyneGI are on the way--per vet recommendations. He has lost ZERO weight during this fiasco. He appears to have no malabsorbtion issues.
Have you considered having him tested for PSSM? If he was fine in the past but just started having issues at this age, that sounds more like PSSM2 vs PSSM1 since it is a later onset. The symptoms you describe could easily be PSSM2 symptoms - many times they are very similar to colic & mistaken for such.
Yes google PSSM..Its Tying up.. And the way you just describe your horse could very well be his problem.. |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | Southtxponygirl - 2018-10-25 10:26 PM slipperyslope - 2018-10-25 8:54 PM horsegirl - 2018-10-25 5:38 AM slipperyslope - 2018-10-24 4:31 PM What does he do during these colic attacks? (such as pawing; running around; rolling; sweating in weird places; muscle "twitches" or tightness; etc) And what do you have to do to resolve them? Stops walking and looks scared, looks back at his side(s), respiration increases, and starts laying down and standing back up repeatedly (no rolling really, just sometimes lays flat out), sometimes pawing. Banamine orally brings him out of it within an hour. Although, since I board, he may do it also when unsupervised and I guess he works through it himself.
Started on KER Ritetrac (with Equishure in it) and the Assure Guard Gold and RelyneGI are on the way--per vet recommendations. He has lost ZERO weight during this fiasco. He appears to have no malabsorbtion issues.
Have you considered having him tested for PSSM? If he was fine in the past but just started having issues at this age, that sounds more like PSSM2 vs PSSM1 since it is a later onset. The symptoms you describe could easily be PSSM2 symptoms - many times they are very similar to colic & mistaken for such.
The 4 vets that were working with him on Monday did not feel PSSM was applicable. It did come up on a list of options and none felt it fit the bill. Likewise, when I was looking it up, none of the symptoms fit aside from colic. |
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Location: in the ozone | horsegirl - 2018-10-26 5:42 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2018-10-25 10:26 PM slipperyslope - 2018-10-25 8:54 PM horsegirl - 2018-10-25 5:38 AM slipperyslope - 2018-10-24 4:31 PM What does he do during these colic attacks? (such as pawing; running around; rolling; sweating in weird places; muscle "twitches" or tightness; etc) And what do you have to do to resolve them? Stops walking and looks scared, looks back at his side(s), respiration increases, and starts laying down and standing back up repeatedly (no rolling really, just sometimes lays flat out), sometimes pawing. Banamine orally brings him out of it within an hour. Although, since I board, he may do it also when unsupervised and I guess he works through it himself.
Started on KER Ritetrac (with Equishure in it) and the Assure Guard Gold and RelyneGI are on the way--per vet recommendations. He has lost ZERO weight during this fiasco. He appears to have no malabsorbtion issues.
Have you considered having him tested for PSSM? If he was fine in the past but just started having issues at this age, that sounds more like PSSM2 vs PSSM1 since it is a later onset. The symptoms you describe could easily be PSSM2 symptoms - many times they are very similar to colic & mistaken for such.
Most vets are only familiar with PSSM1, and really have no clue on PSSM2 or it's symptoms. There is a group on FB - https://www.facebook.com/groups/202978353056065/ PSSM Forum. I would post your horse's symptoms, etc and pedigree and see what they think. The people on there are MUCH more knowledgeable about PSSM2 than 99% of vets since they live with it every day |
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